Shooting 22 short CB in antique handguns

cjwils · July 15, 2011, 08:58 AM

This is not about a particular gun, but about general safety in shooting antique handguns in .22 cal. I understand that old .22 ammo loaded with black powder had low pressure, and there may be some risk in shooting modern .22 ammo in guns designed for those old black powder rounds. I was thinking I might try .22 shorts in an antique handgun, but someone advised me that even shorts might have too much pressure, and I should try only CB rounds. Presently, it appears that the only .22 CB shorts that are widely available are from CCI. Before I proceed to do any shooting in an antique, I decided to look up the SAAMI standards for .22 shorts and CB ammo (see the link below). I was surprised to see (on page 8 of that document) that SAAMI says the average maximum pressure for a .22 CB is the same (21,000 psi) as for a standard .22 short, or even a high velocity .22 short. So if the average max pressure is the same, what is the difference? Is the duration of the pressure different, and does that matter? Based on this, are CB rounds actually safer in an old gun and a standard .22 short?

http://www.saami.org/specifications_...wnload/208.pdf

dbldblu · July 15, 2011, 06:47 PM

Aguila makes primer only powered ammo which would be even lighter. They recommend it not be used in rifles as the bullet may stick in the barrel. If I wanted to shoot a really old .22 pistol/revolver, that is what I would use.

I can't imagine the CCI CB shorts are really over 20,000 psi, maybe it is an error?

gyvel · July 17, 2011, 02:35 PM

Sure enough, that's what the data reads, but I can't imagine that it is true.

Hawg · July 17, 2011, 03:39 PM

I do know a .22 short will blow an Allen & Wheelock sidehammer revolver into three major pieces and a lot of little ones.

DrLaw · July 17, 2011, 06:07 PM

Hawg, you know you have to elaborate on that answer, don't you?

The Doc is out now.

cjwils · July 18, 2011, 01:52 PM

After I started this thread, I decided to email CCI and ask them directly about the pressure of their CB rounds. I was hoping for a specific answer. I got a useful answer, but not at all specific. Linda Olin of their techical section in Lewiston Idaho gave this response:

"The CCI CB shorts do not actually run anywhere near the SAAMI maximum of 21,000 psi. None of our CCI short products 'exceed' that number on average pressure."

carguychris · July 18, 2011, 02:50 PM

Quote:

I do know a .22 short will blow an Allen & Wheelock sidehammer revolver into three major pieces and a lot of little ones.

This post illustrates an important point... many antique top-break and tip-up revolvers really weren't safe to fire when they were brand new.

IMHO firing one should not be attempted unless you get assurances that it is safe from an expert familiar with your specific type of gun.

gyvel · August 16, 2011, 01:48 PM

Can you safely fire CB's in an H&R trapper? They have awful small cylinders and thin cylinder walls.

Hawg · August 16, 2011, 04:19 PM

Sorry for the late response Doc. I was exploring an old house with a buddy and he found an A&W side hammer revolver. It wasn't in the best shape but wasn't pitted and did function. He just had to shoot it. I told him I didn't think it was a good idea but he did it anyway. It bulged and split the chamber it was fired from. Literally broke the frame into two pieces and the top strap was completely gone. It was the sister to this one.

Magnum Wheel Man · August 16, 2011, 05:15 PM

CB caps might be OK, but so far all I've used is Colibri's or super Colibri's ( I've shot super Colibri's in I think all of my guns with no issues )

& never had a problem, & actually enjoy shooting them... I think if I was going to shoot alot in a weaker or older gun, I'd stick with the regular Colibri's

like this... ( I now have several bricks )

http://www.midwayusa.com/Find?userSearchQuery=colibri

cjwils · November 2, 2011, 07:34 PM

Sorry about the long delay in responding; I've been distracted. I agree with Magnum Wheel Man that the Aguila Colibris are the lowest pressure loads, and are the best choice for an antique 22, if your chambers are long enough. Unfortunately, Colibris use a long/long rifle cartridge case, and are too long for an old gun that is specifically chambered for 22 shorts. As an alternative to CCI CB shorts, I have used RWS BB caps, but they are more difficult to find and are more expensive.

July 15, 2011, 08:58 AM	#1
cjwils Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2010 Location: Washington state Posts: 401	Shooting 22 short CB in antique handguns This is not about a particular gun, but about general safety in shooting antique handguns in .22 cal. I understand that old .22 ammo loaded with black powder had low pressure, and there may be some risk in shooting modern .22 ammo in guns designed for those old black powder rounds. I was thinking I might try .22 shorts in an antique handgun, but someone advised me that even shorts might have too much pressure, and I should try only CB rounds. Presently, it appears that the only .22 CB shorts that are widely available are from CCI. Before I proceed to do any shooting in an antique, I decided to look up the SAAMI standards for .22 shorts and CB ammo (see the link below). I was surprised to see (on page 8 of that document) that SAAMI says the average maximum pressure for a .22 CB is the same (21,000 psi) as for a standard .22 short, or even a high velocity .22 short. So if the average max pressure is the same, what is the difference? Is the duration of the pressure different, and does that matter? Based on this, are CB rounds actually safer in an old gun and a standard .22 short? http://www.saami.org/specifications_...wnload/208.pdf

July 17, 2011, 06:07 PM	#5
DrLaw Senior Member Join Date: June 3, 2007 Location: Wild Western Illinois Posts: 559	Hawg, you know you have to elaborate on that answer, don't you? The Doc is out now. __________________ General McAuliffe said it best "Nuts."

August 16, 2011, 05:15 PM	#10
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	I have many black powder era revolvers... CB caps might be OK, but so far all I've used is Colibri's or super Colibri's ( I've shot super Colibri's in I think all of my guns with no issues ) & never had a problem, & actually enjoy shooting them... I think if I was going to shoot alot in a weaker or older gun, I'd stick with the regular Colibri's like this... ( I now have several bricks ) http://www.midwayusa.com/Find?userSearchQuery=colibri __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

July 15, 2011, 06:47 PM	#2
dbldblu Member Join Date: May 30, 2006 Posts: 95	Aguila makes primer only powered ammo which would be even lighter. They recommend it not be used in rifles as the bullet may stick in the barrel. If I wanted to shoot a really old .22 pistol/revolver, that is what I would use. I can't imagine the CCI CB shorts are really over 20,000 psi, maybe it is an error?

July 17, 2011, 02:35 PM	#3
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	Sure enough, that's what the data reads, but I can't imagine that it is true.

July 17, 2011, 03:39 PM	#4
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	I do know a .22 short will blow an Allen & Wheelock sidehammer revolver into three major pieces and a lot of little ones.

July 18, 2011, 01:52 PM	#6
cjwils Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2010 Location: Washington state Posts: 401	After I started this thread, I decided to email CCI and ask them directly about the pressure of their CB rounds. I was hoping for a specific answer. I got a useful answer, but not at all specific. Linda Olin of their techical section in Lewiston Idaho gave this response: "The CCI CB shorts do not actually run anywhere near the SAAMI maximum of 21,000 psi. None of our CCI short products 'exceed' that number on average pressure."

August 16, 2011, 01:48 PM	#8
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	Can you safely fire CB's in an H&R trapper? They have awful small cylinders and thin cylinder walls.

August 16, 2011, 04:19 PM	#9
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Sorry for the late response Doc. I was exploring an old house with a buddy and he found an A&W side hammer revolver. It wasn't in the best shape but wasn't pitted and did function. He just had to shoot it. I told him I didn't think it was a good idea but he did it anyway. It bulged and split the chamber it was fired from. Literally broke the frame into two pieces and the top strap was completely gone. It was the sister to this one.

November 2, 2011, 07:34 PM	#11
cjwils Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2010 Location: Washington state Posts: 401	Sorry about the long delay in responding; I've been distracted. I agree with Magnum Wheel Man that the Aguila Colibris are the lowest pressure loads, and are the best choice for an antique 22, if your chambers are long enough. Unfortunately, Colibris use a long/long rifle cartridge case, and are too long for an old gun that is specifically chambered for 22 shorts. As an alternative to CCI CB shorts, I have used RWS BB caps, but they are more difficult to find and are more expensive.