The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: Bolt, Lever, and Pump Action

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 3, 2008, 10:37 AM   #1
colton23
Junior Member
 
Join Date: December 3, 2008
Posts: 1
Difference in caliber-- Savage 110 in 7mm Mag or .30-06?

I have been trying to figure out the significance in the caliber of bullet for rifles. My buddy just bought a Savage 110, when he bought it the man selling the gun recommended 7mm Rem Mag but I have been reading different forums and most people suggest the 30-06 caliber for this rifle. I was hoping somebody could help me to understand the difference.
colton23 is offline  
Old December 3, 2008, 05:12 PM   #2
Don Gwinn
Staff Emeritus
 
Join Date: March 9, 2000
Location: Virden, IL
Posts: 5,917
I'm going to let you get advice from the guys in the Rifle forum. I think you'll get a lot better information there.

Personally, I'd expect the 7 Mag to shoot a little flatter and further than .30-06, but I wouldn't think the difference would be huge. People will probably ask what you intend to do with the rifle before they try to recommend calibers. I'm trying to think of something you could do with .30-06 that you couldn't do with a 7mm, and I can't come up with much, unless it's buying cheaper surplus 30-06 ammo from the CMP.
__________________
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don Gwinn: Chicago Gun Rights Examiner
Don Gwinn is offline  
Old December 3, 2008, 07:05 PM   #3
Doyle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 20, 2007
Location: Starkville, MS
Posts: 7,058
It is pretty easy to see the difference if using any of the major ammo manufacture's tables. Example: if you are using a 150 grn pointed SP Remington Coreloc bullet in both and both are sighted in at 245 yds, then at 300 yds the 30-06 will be almost 1" lower.

If you handload, the difference will be less noticable as factory 30-06 loads are not loaded to their full potential (Hornady light mags being the exception).
Doyle is offline  
Old December 3, 2008, 07:22 PM   #4
dahermit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near
Posts: 5,738
7mag. vs. 06

Did a little research a few years ago. Averaged all top loads for 7 mag. and 06 in hand-loading manuals. Found that there was only 100fps difference in the averages for similar bullet weights (145 vs. 150, 175 vs. 180) This is significantly insignificant inasmuch as there can be that much difference (100fps), in identical rifles of identical calibers. Also, the rifles used for the 7mm mag. had barrels of 24 inches compared to 22 inches for the 30-06's used to develop the data. Furthermore, 7mm mag. is loaded to higher pressures than the 30-06. In short, the creators of the 7mm mag. used all tricks that they could think of to give an advantage to the 7mm mag. over the 30-06.

The difference in ballistic coefficient of 7mm compared to similar 30 cal. is greater but bullets at 3,000fps. at 300 yards (200 yd. zero), was only 3 inches.

Therefore, I concluded that despite the popularity of the 7mm mag. for its followers, it is not far fetched to call it a "ballistic twin" of the 30-06 in that its ballistic superiority is insignificant if it exists at all.

Further, the brass of the 7mm mag. is more expensive, takes more powder due to its volume just to equal the 06, and has a fierce muzzle blast and more recoil than a 30-06. The choice is obvious, you can go with "show and blow" or with a classic by which all others are still compared.
dahermit is offline  
Old December 3, 2008, 07:25 PM   #5
publius
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 25, 2005
Location: Mississippi/Texas
Posts: 2,503
they are both good rounds. the 7 mag shoots a little flatter but when you get out to distances where that is really noticable you really have to know what your rifle is doing trajectory wise, be it 7mm or 30-06. I prefer the 30-06 over the 7mag.
__________________
"Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress, but I repeat myself." Mark Twain
publius is offline  
Old December 3, 2008, 10:26 PM   #6
Jimro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 18, 2006
Posts: 7,097
They are both very common hunting rounds in North America.

They both kill the same stuff dead as anything else.

Where I hunt there isn't much need for long range shooting, but if I were going to be taking long shots at elk I'd give the nod to the 7mm Rem Mag. The higher BC bullets traveling at a faster velocity also have a better sectional density for deep penetration.

But I don't take long shots at animals, 30-06 is plenyt for me, but I am a fan of the 7mm Rem Mag.

Jimro
__________________
Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.
Jimro is offline  
Old December 3, 2008, 10:40 PM   #7
DnPRK
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 24, 2001
Location: LC, Ca
Posts: 1,880
Ballistically, there isn't any difference between the two cartridges, especially if you reload or are rich enough to afford to shoot premium ammo all day long. If you want to shoot for cheap, the 30-06 is the way to go because 150 grain white box M2 equivalent loads are far cheaper than 7mm Mag
DnPRK is offline  
Old December 4, 2008, 01:26 AM   #8
BusGunner007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2001
Location: Upper Left Coast
Posts: 2,116
I prefer the 7mm Rem.Mag.

If you had a chance to shoot them side by side, you might like the 7mm Rem.Mag. better, too.

I find the .30-06 feels sharper in recoil than the 7 Mag.
The .30 feels kind of sharp and obnoxious; the 7 is abrupt, yet delayed at the same time - if that makes sense.
Hard to explain, maybe somebody else that shoots the 7 can help out.

To me, it doesn't have anything to do with romance, magnumitis or whatever, I just LIKE it!
Good luck.
__________________
"...if you're not havin' fun, you're workin'..."
BusGunner007 is offline  
Old December 4, 2008, 08:24 AM   #9
ryalred
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 24, 2008
Location: SE Oklahoma
Posts: 491
Busgunner007:
I know what your talking about, it is somewhat like the .257 Wby Magnum recoil. However, I really do like the .30-06 better. I think its because I reload and there are such a wide variety and source of components for the .30-06. My brother-in-law, on the other hand, loves his 7mm Rem Mag better.
__________________
ryalred
rifle & muzzleloader -- exhilarating
bowhunting -- obsession
reloading -- addicted
ryalred is offline  
Old December 4, 2008, 08:35 AM   #10
VonFireball
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 8, 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 354
Quote:
Therefore, I concluded that despite the popularity of the 7mm mag. for its followers, it is not far fetched to call it a "ballistic twin" of the 30-06 in that its ballistic superiority is insignificant if it exists at all.
It's your lie, tell it any way you want.
VonFireball is offline  
Old December 4, 2008, 10:07 AM   #11
biggfoot44
Member
 
Join Date: December 2, 2008
Posts: 32
If you don't already have a strong personal preference, a .30-06 is rarely a bad choice. Yes 7mm bullets can have a higher BC and SD, but unless you routinely shoot ( and practice) at well over 300 yds the difference is not signifigent at more typical hunting situations. Now if the choice were between '06, and a smaller 7mm, like 7-08, then that would be an interesting debate.
biggfoot44 is offline  
Old December 4, 2008, 10:16 AM   #12
Buzzcook
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 29, 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 6,094
I prefer the .30-06 because of price and because I reload I have more options.

Shooting out of similar rifles using the same type of ammo the 7mm has a ballistic advantage. Recoil is about the same, but some people feel the 7mm is a bit harder and some the .30-06.
The .30-06 can use heavier bullets than the 7mm, that's important to some people.
The 7mm mag tends to have a preformance edge out of short barrels over the .30-06. The .30-06 with a good hand load has an advantage out of a long barrel.

Your choice depends on use and for some uses you might even be better off looking at some cartridge other than either the .30-06 or the 7mm mag.
If I was to start all over from scratch I think I'd be looking at the 6.5x55 or similar for what I use my .30-06 for.
Buzzcook is offline  
Old December 4, 2008, 10:29 AM   #13
Art Eatman
Staff
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA
Posts: 24,798
If you're a good enough shooter as to skill, the '06 is as good to 500 yards as most anything, if deer hunting is the deal.

I meddled around some with a 7mmRemMag, and just never did like it as much as the '06. Some of it was the fit of the rifle, I guess, but as long as it was bang/flop at three or four hundred yards with the '06, why bother?

Back before laser rangefinders existed, the 7mmRemMag became popular for elk hunters in the Rockies for the longer range shots. Mostly popular among city hunters who weren't very good at estimating distance in wide-open country. Just enough flatter than an '06 to help. What's overlooked, of course, is that at 500 yards the wind is just about as important to the 7mm as to the '06. At 500 yards, a "nice breeze" can mean holding two feet of windage for a center hit.
__________________
You're from BATFE? Come right in! I use all your fine products!
Art Eatman is offline  
Old December 4, 2008, 10:36 AM   #14
taylorce1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2005
Location: On the Santa Fe Trail
Posts: 7,201
I agree there isn't as much difference between the two as people are led to believe. The advantage though slight does go to the 7mm Rem Mag, but I have had a couple and never liked them better than my .270 or 06. So I sold one 7mm Rem Mag and changed the other to a .375 Ruger and couldn't be happier about my decisions. If I was going to go back to a 7mm I'd probably choose the WSM, .280 Rem, or 7mm-08 just because they lack the belt on the cartridge, never had a problem reloading belted ammo just prefer not to have any belts if it can be helped.
taylorce1 is online now  
Old December 4, 2008, 12:04 PM   #15
troy_mclure
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2008
Location: gulf of mexico
Posts: 2,716
ive never heard of 1km kills on antelope with an 06 before, have you?

the 7mm rem mag is better for long distance than the 06, especialy above 400m.

that being said i will be buying an 06 barrel for my encore.
__________________
There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."
troy_mclure is offline  
Old December 4, 2008, 01:06 PM   #16
davlandrum
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2006
Location: Lane County Oregon
Posts: 2,547
Quote:
I find the .30-06 feels sharper in recoil than the 7 Mag.
The .30 feels kind of sharp and obnoxious; the 7 is abrupt, yet delayed at the same time - if that makes sense.
Hard to explain, maybe somebody else that shoots the 7 can help out.
My opinion is the just the opposite. I much prefer shooting my -06 to my buddy's 7. Maybe it is his reloads.

Perceived recoil is a totally individual thing.

Either one is fine for most situations.
__________________
U.S Army, Retired

Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and what is right to do. -Potter Stewart
davlandrum is offline  
Old December 4, 2008, 01:16 PM   #17
dahermit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 28, 2006
Location: South Central Michigan...near
Posts: 5,738
dahermit wrote:

Quote:
Quote:
Therefore, I concluded that despite the popularity of the 7mm mag. for its followers, it is not far fetched to call it a "ballistic twin" of the 30-06 in that its ballistic superiority is insignificant if it exists at all.

Quote:
It's your lie, tell it any way you want.
Can you be more spacific? Exactly what lie was told?
dahermit is offline  
Old December 4, 2008, 01:20 PM   #18
Logs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 26, 1999
Location: BLUEGRASS STATE KY USA
Posts: 1,593
Are you hunting deer with it? I have a 7mm and it does the job, but ammo is about twice of a 30.06 and there is more recoil.

If you are using it for Elk or Moose you may want the added knock down power, but 30.06 is hard to beat.
Logs is offline  
Old December 4, 2008, 02:18 PM   #19
taylorce1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2005
Location: On the Santa Fe Trail
Posts: 7,201
Quote:
ive never heard of 1km kills on antelope with an 06 before, have you?
Not a good arguement at all, the 06 was making 1000 yard or meter shots on paper and kills for that matter on humans long before the 7mm Rem Mag was invented. I'm pretty sure it will be just as effective on antelope at that range as well.
taylorce1 is online now  
Old December 5, 2008, 12:25 AM   #20
radom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2000
Posts: 1,298
I refuse to own a 7mm mag. To me the much higher cost of cases, powder and factory amunition is not worth any slight almost not noticable performance gain over a 30-06. Now if I was into antalope hunting where a 139 grain boat tail bullet would be a idea it may be differant,naw think I would go with a 6mm then.
radom is offline  
Old December 5, 2008, 01:08 AM   #21
BusGunner007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2001
Location: Upper Left Coast
Posts: 2,116
Whoa! I detect some hostility here!
My comment was that I LIKE IT.
Period.

It's like deciding which one of your Twin Kissing-Cousins is better...
...the one with the bigger boobs or the one with the longer legs.
Everything else is pretty much the same!
__________________
"...if you're not havin' fun, you're workin'..."
BusGunner007 is offline  
Old December 5, 2008, 02:02 AM   #22
Dr. Strangelove
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2008
Location: Athens, GA
Posts: 1,436
So what did he buy?

Quote:
My buddy just bought a Savage 110, when he bought it the man selling the gun recommended 7mm Rem Mag but I have been reading different forums and most people suggest the 30-06 caliber for this rifle.
Which did he buy? I'm guessing the 7MM? Or maybe the .30-06? Who cares? No insult meant, I'm just being practical. For the vast majority of us in real world hunting situations, there is just no difference. Does a 7MM Rem Mag kill an animal any deader than a .30-06?


Quote:
I have been trying to figure out the significance in the caliber of bullet for rifles.
Good luck. Are blonds or brunettes prettier?

I'm just trying to illustrate that caliber differences and the like are largely a matter of personal preference in most cases. We're not comparing a .22 long rifle and a .458 Winchester, we're looking at two calibers that, within common hunting shooting distances, really are not different enough to worry about. Yes, there are some differences between calibers, if you're really on the ragged edge of performance, but for the vast majority of us, the best caliber is the one that has the best combination of attributes that we need.

I hunt with a .270Win, a 7mm Rem Mag, and a .308Win, I really can't see a difference at the ranges I shoot with any of them. Whichever one your friend bought will be a great rifle that will serve them well.
Dr. Strangelove is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09133 seconds with 8 queries