Best powder(s) for .223?

mbreitba · September 30, 2008, 12:55 AM

I'm starting reloading for my .223 AR-15. It's a bull barrel with a 1:9 twist. I've started working up some loads with Reloader 7 and Hornady 55Gr Sp and SPSX bullets, but I'd love some info from the regulars here about different powders and bullets that work well in .223.

I'm mainly going to be shooting 100-300 yard ranges (paper punching), and coyote hunting in Central Iowa (shots tend to be 200-300 yards sometimes less depending on cover) - possibly a trip or two to SD for prairie dog hunting.

Sevens · September 30, 2008, 07:23 AM

I don't have an AR so I can't tell you how well my loads operate the rifle (I shoot them from a 14" bull barrel .223.

But I've had very good luck with H335 and bullet weights from 50 gr to 60 gr, and also had good luck with H4198 and the same bullets.

There's a difference between the two-- both return fine accuracy and the H335 is a ball powder so it meters well, but it uses a little more powder to return a similar velocity and it works at a slightly higher pressure. The H4198 uses less powder to return a similar velocity, runs at a somewhat lower pressure but is an extruded powder and doesn't want to meter quite as easily.

In any case, consider picking up either or both of these powders.

cbm1948 · September 30, 2008, 07:39 AM

I happen to be a HUGH fan of the 60gr Hornady bullets and RL-15 powder in my AR, it is either 1:9 or 1:8 twist, I have two AR's and I think the BB in a 1:8. This is obviously a slower burning powder than the RL 7 you are now using. If you can find someone that will "share" a small amount of RL 15 with you to try is better than having several jugs of powder that will not preform in any of your rifles. You can become "powder poor" real quick if you don't watch yourself.

Be Safe

Clint

mbreitba · September 30, 2008, 08:12 AM

I'm hoping to find someone locally in the Des Moines area to do some reloading with, because as you said, it's easy to blow a bunch of money on powder. At 20 bucks a pound, you don't have to buy a whole lot of pounds before the cost really gets up there. I really wish they sold 1/4 pounds of powder for testing new loadings!

scsov509 · September 30, 2008, 11:00 AM

There are so many powders that work excellent in an AR, and a lot of it is going to depend on bullet weight as well. But for bullets of the 55 grain variety, my best results have been with H335 and TAC. I'm really liking Ramshot powders right now since they meter well, and are a little less expensive than others. X-Terminator is also worth a try in the lighter bullets.

crowbeaner · September 30, 2008, 01:10 PM

All of the following work well in the .223; RL7, 10x, RL15, H4198, H322, BLC2, H335, AA2230,AA2495, AA2560, IMR 4895, 3031, 4198, N133, and WW748. There are others as well, but I haven't tried them YET. Picking a powder in your rifle will depend on a LOT of trial and error. My personal choices are H322, H335, BLC2, and WW748. Try loading with one bullet and make up 5-10 loads of each and see what has promise and refine from there.

Zombie Steve · September 30, 2008, 01:17 PM

I'm certainly no expert in reloading or .223 in particular, but I did just go shoot my "work up" batch of 55gr fmj (Hornady) the other day. I put them over Varget. Not the easiest to meter powder in the world, but I got really good results as I worked up. My "tah dah" load was just under maximum from the Hornady manual. I can't remember the number (26.4 grains?)... at work... I'll check back in later.

ForneyRider · September 30, 2008, 02:08 PM

I chose AA2230 for light bullets, and RE 15 for heavy bullets.

I have H-Varget and IMR 3031 as well.

All but the IMR work well for me in Lee Auto Disk and Lee PPM.

I think the RE 7 is for lighter bullets (40gr-55gr). 10x and 15 for the heavier bullets. A lot of reloading recipes use RE 15 as the only Alliant powder for over 62 gr bullets.

I have a 1:9 bull barrel AR too. A quick powder dropper is really nice.

There has been a flood sale at the range, so I got 40gr,50gr,55gr,60gr,62gr,69gr, and 75gr Sierra and Hornady bullets. 1:9 I've read works well up to 72gr in some resources and 75gr in other resources.

The 40gr at 3500-3600fps will be very flat out to 300 yards compared to something over 60gr. But not sure if these small bullets are happy with a 1:9, the 1:12 would probably be favorable at 40gr.

The Federal bulk 50gr ammo at Wal-mart has been great, so I will try and match those for that weight.

QBall45 · September 30, 2008, 04:49 PM

I pondered this for a while as I started gathering my equiptment and settled on Reloader 15. This meters very accurately and is giving me very tight groups using 55gr FMJ over 25.6gr crimped with a LEE Factory Crimp Die. I stopped tweeking the charge when I got to about 3/8 inch center to center shooting iron sights from prone on a sand bag at 25 yards. Will push target to 100 yards later this fall once the corn is gone.

mbreitba · September 30, 2008, 05:24 PM

Well, after my first day out at the range, I had some good luck with 20gr of R7 w/ a Hornady 55gr SPSX. Most 3 round groups were well under 1MOA. The only downside was that my AR was not cycling the rounds. They would eject, but not load a new one. Time to bump the powder a little more - the load data that I was looking at said it was a 21.5gr load with a 205M primer - couldn't find any 205M primers so I substituted WSR and dropped the powder just a bit.

Should have 1000 of these show up tomorrow : http://www.iidbs.com/hitech.zkb?root...3&object-menu6 - just wondering if I should be adding a crimp to those since they have the cannulure, or can I seat them without a crimp just like the SPSX's?

NuJudge · September 30, 2008, 06:12 PM

The only load I've gotten it to shoot is one that shoots well in any .223 that will shoot at all: any 52gr or 53gr match bullet, 26.5gr of 748, a CCI primer, in a LC or WRA case.

It shoots little knots at 100 yards, and if no wind (or wind from behind or in front) it will shoot little knots at 200 yards.

CDD

rickdavis81 · September 30, 2008, 07:18 PM

I like 26.5 gr of Varget with a Hornady 55gr v-max.

flyboy14 · September 30, 2008, 08:49 PM

+1 for the varget load above, use it to push hornady 55gr sp interlocks. Have a 24" 1-9 twist on my dpms, and it loves them. lc brass, cci small rifle primers. tried magnum primers and saw no improvement, so I stuck with regular.

tbtrout · September 30, 2008, 08:53 PM

I am using IMR 4895 in mine. IMR 4064 worked well as did WW 748. IMR 4198 works well out of my Encore.

Nnobby45 · September 30, 2008, 08:58 PM

Winchester 748 extremely versatile in .223 and meters well.

Oberg · September 30, 2008, 10:55 PM

I load my Paper punching and Hunting loads with 27.5 grs of Ramshot X-Terminater pushing 40 gr v-maxs.

For plinking I load 55 gr sp with 24 grs of Ramshot TAC. (That load needs to be changed up as it is real unaccurate

I also like the Ramshot Powders alot right now for there Metering (so so much faster) and the cheapness of them

Good luck

Scorch · September 30, 2008, 11:06 PM

WW748, H335, and Varget for easy-to-measure loads. For rod-shaped powders, IMR3031 is always a good bet.

Bullet94 · October 1, 2008, 12:40 AM

You might look here -

http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html

HAMMER1DOWN · October 1, 2008, 08:38 PM

As scsov509 said the ramshot powder meters really well and i found that it does fair enough for my uses (coyotes, gophers, and deer). I shoot a 55gr Nosler varmint ballistic tips and same grain Hornady SPSX and it hasn't let me down yet.

Loader9 · October 1, 2008, 08:52 PM

I'm using mostly AA230 and it meters well but it's dirty in the gas system. Accuracy is great with any bullets from 50's to 62's. TAC is suppose to be designed from the ground up for the AR/M16 gas system and is suppose to keep the system clean. I haven't tried it yet but it's on the list of things to do.

mbreitba · October 1, 2008, 09:09 PM

Thanks for all of the recommendations - I'm going to pick up some Varget and possibly some RamShot and check them out.

On another note - I was at the range today and found a bunch (150+) of brass that's stamped PPU 08 5.56x45 - I understand that there are differences in the .223 cartridge and the 5.56x45 NATO cartridge, but if I trimmed the cases to lenght and loaded just like I load my LC brass, would I have any problems?

Sevens · October 2, 2008, 07:07 AM

Short version:
Most of us use military brass without trouble and some of us use it exclusively. There is a bigger difference between .308/7.62x51 brass than there is with .223/5.56.

Longer version, from that way cool 6mm BR weblink someone provided above (thanks for the cool link!):
.223 Remington vs. 5.56x45--Chambering and Throat Considerations
Is the .223 Remington the same as the 5.56x45? The answer is yes and no. There ARE differences between the .223 Remington as shot in civilian rifles and the 5.56x45 in military use. While the external cartridge dimensions are essentially the same, the .223 Remington is built to SAAMI specs, rated to 50,000 CUP max pressure, and normally has a shorter throat. The 5.56x45 is built to NATO specs, rated to 60,000 CUP max pressure, and has a longer throat, optimized to shoot long bullets. That said, there are various .223 Remington match chambers, including the Wylde chamber, that feature longer throats. Military 5.56x45 brass often, but not always, has thicker internal construction, and slightly less capacity than commercial .223 Rem brass.

Should you be worried about shooting 5.56x45 milspec ammo in a .223 Remington? The answer really depends on your chamber. 5.56 x45 ammo is intended for chambers with longer throats. If you shoot hot 5.56x45 ammo in short-throated SAAMI-spec chambers you can encounter pressure issues. The new long-throated 'Wylde' chamber allows safe use of military ammo. Wylde chambers are quite common in Rock River guns. Other manufacturers, such as Fulton Armory, offer modified "match chambers" with extended throats that allow safe use of 5.56x45 ammo in .223 Remington rifles. For a complete discussion of the .223 Rem vs. 5.56x45 question, read this Tech Notice from Winchester, and this GunZone Commentary by Dean Speir. Without belaboring the point, we'll repeat the official SAAMI position: "Chambers for military rifles have a different throat configuration than chambers for sporting firearms which, together with the full metal jacket of the military projectile, may account for the higher pressures which result when military ammunition is fired in a sporting chamber. SAAMI recommends that a firearm be fired only with the cartridge for which it is specifically chambered by the manufacturer."

Your brass is PPU 08--
Prvi Partizan, 31000 Titovo, Uzice, Yugoslavia

Supposed to be decent. All the brass I use is LC, from the mid 80s through current. I don't mix my LC brass with anything else. Any .223 brass I find I keep, but I've never used it.

mbreitba · October 2, 2008, 06:28 PM

Alright - I'm going to give it a run - I've not had any problems with my LC brass in my AR, so I'm guessing that it's just fine to run NATO spec cases in my gun, as long as I'm loading for .223 (and not 5.56) and keep the powder charges in line.

September 30, 2008, 12:55 AM	#1
mbreitba Member Join Date: September 30, 2008 Location: Des Moines, IA Posts: 41	Best powder(s) for .223? I'm starting reloading for my .223 AR-15. It's a bull barrel with a 1:9 twist. I've started working up some loads with Reloader 7 and Hornady 55Gr Sp and SPSX bullets, but I'd love some info from the regulars here about different powders and bullets that work well in .223. I'm mainly going to be shooting 100-300 yard ranges (paper punching), and coyote hunting in Central Iowa (shots tend to be 200-300 yards sometimes less depending on cover) - possibly a trip or two to SD for prairie dog hunting.

September 30, 2008, 07:23 AM	#2
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	I don't have an AR so I can't tell you how well my loads operate the rifle (I shoot them from a 14" bull barrel .223. But I've had very good luck with H335 and bullet weights from 50 gr to 60 gr, and also had good luck with H4198 and the same bullets. There's a difference between the two-- both return fine accuracy and the H335 is a ball powder so it meters well, but it uses a little more powder to return a similar velocity and it works at a slightly higher pressure. The H4198 uses less powder to return a similar velocity, runs at a somewhat lower pressure but is an extruded powder and doesn't want to meter quite as easily. In any case, consider picking up either or both of these powders. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

September 30, 2008, 07:39 AM	#3
cbm1948 Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 143	I happen to be a HUGH fan of the 60gr Hornady bullets and RL-15 powder in my AR, it is either 1:9 or 1:8 twist, I have two AR's and I think the BB in a 1:8. This is obviously a slower burning powder than the RL 7 you are now using. If you can find someone that will "share" a small amount of RL 15 with you to try is better than having several jugs of powder that will not preform in any of your rifles. You can become "powder poor" real quick if you don't watch yourself. Be Safe Clint __________________ Illegitimi Non Carborundum

September 30, 2008, 01:10 PM	#6
crowbeaner Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Upstate SC Posts: 1,943	All of the following work well in the .223; RL7, 10x, RL15, H4198, H322, BLC2, H335, AA2230,AA2495, AA2560, IMR 4895, 3031, 4198, N133, and WW748. There are others as well, but I haven't tried them YET. Picking a powder in your rifle will depend on a LOT of trial and error. My personal choices are H322, H335, BLC2, and WW748. Try loading with one bullet and make up 5-10 loads of each and see what has promise and refine from there. __________________ If you want your children to follow in your footsteps, be careful where you walk. Beware the man that only owns one gun; he probably knows how to use it. I just hope my ship comes in before my dock rots.

September 30, 2008, 02:08 PM	#8
ForneyRider Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2007 Location: Forney, TX Posts: 725	I chose AA2230 for light bullets, and RE 15 for heavy bullets. I have H-Varget and IMR 3031 as well. All but the IMR work well for me in Lee Auto Disk and Lee PPM. I think the RE 7 is for lighter bullets (40gr-55gr). 10x and 15 for the heavier bullets. A lot of reloading recipes use RE 15 as the only Alliant powder for over 62 gr bullets. I have a 1:9 bull barrel AR too. A quick powder dropper is really nice. There has been a flood sale at the range, so I got 40gr,50gr,55gr,60gr,62gr,69gr, and 75gr Sierra and Hornady bullets. 1:9 I've read works well up to 72gr in some resources and 75gr in other resources. The 40gr at 3500-3600fps will be very flat out to 300 yards compared to something over 60gr. But not sure if these small bullets are happy with a 1:9, the 1:12 would probably be favorable at 40gr. The Federal bulk 50gr ammo at Wal-mart has been great, so I will try and match those for that weight. __________________ When all is said and done, there is a lot more said than done.

September 30, 2008, 08:12 AM	#4
mbreitba Member Join Date: September 30, 2008 Location: Des Moines, IA Posts: 41	I'm hoping to find someone locally in the Des Moines area to do some reloading with, because as you said, it's easy to blow a bunch of money on powder. At 20 bucks a pound, you don't have to buy a whole lot of pounds before the cost really gets up there. I really wish they sold 1/4 pounds of powder for testing new loadings!

September 30, 2008, 11:00 AM	#5
scsov509 Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Posts: 819	There are so many powders that work excellent in an AR, and a lot of it is going to depend on bullet weight as well. But for bullets of the 55 grain variety, my best results have been with H335 and TAC. I'm really liking Ramshot powders right now since they meter well, and are a little less expensive than others. X-Terminator is also worth a try in the lighter bullets.

September 30, 2008, 01:17 PM	#7
Zombie Steve Senior Member Join Date: June 3, 2007 Location: Old Colorado City Posts: 527	I'm certainly no expert in reloading or .223 in particular, but I did just go shoot my "work up" batch of 55gr fmj (Hornady) the other day. I put them over Varget. Not the easiest to meter powder in the world, but I got really good results as I worked up. My "tah dah" load was just under maximum from the Hornady manual. I can't remember the number (26.4 grains?)... at work... I'll check back in later.

September 30, 2008, 04:49 PM	#9
QBall45 Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2008 Location: South Central Minnesota Posts: 584	I pondered this for a while as I started gathering my equiptment and settled on Reloader 15. This meters very accurately and is giving me very tight groups using 55gr FMJ over 25.6gr crimped with a LEE Factory Crimp Die. I stopped tweeking the charge when I got to about 3/8 inch center to center shooting iron sights from prone on a sand bag at 25 yards. Will push target to 100 yards later this fall once the corn is gone.

September 30, 2008, 05:24 PM	#10
mbreitba Member Join Date: September 30, 2008 Location: Des Moines, IA Posts: 41	Well, after my first day out at the range, I had some good luck with 20gr of R7 w/ a Hornady 55gr SPSX. Most 3 round groups were well under 1MOA. The only downside was that my AR was not cycling the rounds. They would eject, but not load a new one. Time to bump the powder a little more - the load data that I was looking at said it was a 21.5gr load with a 205M primer - couldn't find any 205M primers so I substituted WSR and dropped the powder just a bit. Should have 1000 of these show up tomorrow : http://www.iidbs.com/hitech.zkb?root...3&object-menu6 - just wondering if I should be adding a crimp to those since they have the cannulure, or can I seat them without a crimp just like the SPSX's?

September 30, 2008, 06:12 PM	#11
NuJudge Member Join Date: October 17, 2005 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 86	I have the most cussed 1:9 twist barrel on the planet The only load I've gotten it to shoot is one that shoots well in any .223 that will shoot at all: any 52gr or 53gr match bullet, 26.5gr of 748, a CCI primer, in a LC or WRA case. It shoots little knots at 100 yards, and if no wind (or wind from behind or in front) it will shoot little knots at 200 yards. CDD

September 30, 2008, 07:18 PM	#12
rickdavis81 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2006 Location: Missouri Posts: 398	I like 26.5 gr of Varget with a Hornady 55gr v-max.

September 30, 2008, 08:49 PM	#13
flyboy14 Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2008 Location: south dakota Posts: 175	+1 for the varget load above, use it to push hornady 55gr sp interlocks. Have a 24" 1-9 twist on my dpms, and it loves them. lc brass, cci small rifle primers. tried magnum primers and saw no improvement, so I stuck with regular.

September 30, 2008, 08:53 PM	#14
tbtrout Senior Member Join Date: April 27, 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 234	I am using IMR 4895 in mine. IMR 4064 worked well as did WW 748. IMR 4198 works well out of my Encore.

September 30, 2008, 08:58 PM	#15
Nnobby45 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2004 Posts: 3,150	Winchester 748 extremely versatile in .223 and meters well.

September 30, 2008, 10:55 PM	#16
Oberg Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2008 Location: Minn Posts: 212	I load my Paper punching and Hunting loads with 27.5 grs of Ramshot X-Terminater pushing 40 gr v-maxs. For plinking I load 55 gr sp with 24 grs of Ramshot TAC. (That load needs to be changed up as it is real unaccurate I also like the Ramshot Powders alot right now for there Metering (so so much faster) and the cheapness of them Good luck

September 30, 2008, 11:06 PM	#17
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	WW748, H335, and Varget for easy-to-measure loads. For rod-shaped powders, IMR3031 is always a good bet. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

October 1, 2008, 12:40 AM	#18
Bullet94 Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2004 Location: Kansas Posts: 723	You might look here - http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html __________________ PRO-SECOND AMENDMENT - Live Free or Die

October 1, 2008, 08:38 PM	#19
HAMMER1DOWN Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2008 Location: Close Enough to Canada to say "EH!!"... MT Posts: 418	As scsov509 said the ramshot powder meters really well and i found that it does fair enough for my uses (coyotes, gophers, and deer). I shoot a 55gr Nosler varmint ballistic tips and same grain Hornady SPSX and it hasn't let me down yet.

October 1, 2008, 08:52 PM	#20
Loader9 Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2008 Posts: 949	I'm using mostly AA230 and it meters well but it's dirty in the gas system. Accuracy is great with any bullets from 50's to 62's. TAC is suppose to be designed from the ground up for the AR/M16 gas system and is suppose to keep the system clean. I haven't tried it yet but it's on the list of things to do.

October 1, 2008, 09:09 PM	#21
mbreitba Member Join Date: September 30, 2008 Location: Des Moines, IA Posts: 41	Thanks for all of the recommendations - I'm going to pick up some Varget and possibly some RamShot and check them out. On another note - I was at the range today and found a bunch (150+) of brass that's stamped PPU 08 5.56x45 - I understand that there are differences in the .223 cartridge and the 5.56x45 NATO cartridge, but if I trimmed the cases to lenght and loaded just like I load my LC brass, would I have any problems?

October 2, 2008, 07:07 AM	#22
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Short version: Most of us use military brass without trouble and some of us use it exclusively. There is a bigger difference between .308/7.62x51 brass than there is with .223/5.56. Longer version, from that way cool 6mm BR weblink someone provided above (thanks for the cool link!): .223 Remington vs. 5.56x45--Chambering and Throat Considerations Is the .223 Remington the same as the 5.56x45? The answer is yes and no. There ARE differences between the .223 Remington as shot in civilian rifles and the 5.56x45 in military use. While the external cartridge dimensions are essentially the same, the .223 Remington is built to SAAMI specs, rated to 50,000 CUP max pressure, and normally has a shorter throat. The 5.56x45 is built to NATO specs, rated to 60,000 CUP max pressure, and has a longer throat, optimized to shoot long bullets. That said, there are various .223 Remington match chambers, including the Wylde chamber, that feature longer throats. Military 5.56x45 brass often, but not always, has thicker internal construction, and slightly less capacity than commercial .223 Rem brass. Should you be worried about shooting 5.56x45 milspec ammo in a .223 Remington? The answer really depends on your chamber. 5.56 x45 ammo is intended for chambers with longer throats. If you shoot hot 5.56x45 ammo in short-throated SAAMI-spec chambers you can encounter pressure issues. The new long-throated 'Wylde' chamber allows safe use of military ammo. Wylde chambers are quite common in Rock River guns. Other manufacturers, such as Fulton Armory, offer modified "match chambers" with extended throats that allow safe use of 5.56x45 ammo in .223 Remington rifles. For a complete discussion of the .223 Rem vs. 5.56x45 question, read this Tech Notice from Winchester, and this GunZone Commentary by Dean Speir. Without belaboring the point, we'll repeat the official SAAMI position: "Chambers for military rifles have a different throat configuration than chambers for sporting firearms which, together with the full metal jacket of the military projectile, may account for the higher pressures which result when military ammunition is fired in a sporting chamber. SAAMI recommends that a firearm be fired only with the cartridge for which it is specifically chambered by the manufacturer." Your brass is PPU 08-- Prvi Partizan, 31000 Titovo, Uzice, Yugoslavia Supposed to be decent. All the brass I use is LC, from the mid 80s through current. I don't mix my LC brass with anything else. Any .223 brass I find I keep, but I've never used it. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

October 2, 2008, 06:28 PM	#23
mbreitba Member Join Date: September 30, 2008 Location: Des Moines, IA Posts: 41	Alright - I'm going to give it a run - I've not had any problems with my LC brass in my AR, so I'm guessing that it's just fine to run NATO spec cases in my gun, as long as I'm loading for .223 (and not 5.56) and keep the powder charges in line.