Once fired brass vs. New starline cases

Bacchus · August 6, 2002, 01:26 PM

I'm thinking about getting the dies to load 308 and have some questions about once fired brass.

First, I need some brass, as I don't want to only buy ammo, shoot it, and reload those cases. I'll do that for a small quantity (say, less than 100 rounds).

Midway has 100 new starline cases for about $10. They also have 500 once fired cases for $30.

Here's the description of the cases: once fired, cleaned, polished, deprimed, primer crimp removed, may have been fired in auto, you will need a die capable of returning case to SAAMI dimensions.

Does that mean resized? Do Lee dies do this?
Starline brass is new, won't it need to be resized, too?

I seem to remember a recent thread about someone who bought 500 rounds of 9mm and got lots of 40 and 380. Even if I have to throw away 100 cases, I'd still be ahead with the bulk stuff. But then again, I will probably only reload 100 at a time and shoot 30 or so each range trip. Do I need 500 cases? If I use a bolt action, lost brass shouldn't be a problem.

Keep in mind I reload on a single stage.

Which would you buy and why?
Thanks.

**Mal H** · August 6, 2002, 01:48 PM

This might be the kicker towards going for the once-fired brass: Starline doesn't make 308 brass.

Now, if that was a typo and you meant .380, then I would go for the Starline, but not from Midway. Buy 500 directly from Starline for approx. $12 more than the 500 once-fired stuff. You won't have to throw away any brass, you will have the best available, you will probably never have to buy any again at the rate you indicated you will use it, Starline pays the shipping. I generally find that I don't have to resize Starline for the first loading, but it won't hurt if you do. You will definitely have to resize the bulk brass.

Bacchus · August 6, 2002, 02:03 PM

But I did mean 308. Here's some updated info:

Remington new cases: $6 for 20, $20 for 100.
Once fired, grade 1: $15 for 100, $31 for 500.

Having noted that, which would you all recommend?

Steve Smith · August 6, 2002, 02:04 PM

Auto loader or bolt?

Bacchus · August 6, 2002, 02:07 PM

Almost definitely bolt action.

**Mal H** · August 6, 2002, 02:15 PM

You're most likely not striving for match ammo, so I'd opt for the 500 once fired brass - it's just a much better deal. I doubt you'd get any non-308 brass in there.

Yes, you will have to resize it, and yes, Lee dies will work fine for the job.

(Almost definitely, eh?

)

rocko · August 6, 2002, 02:31 PM

It appears from the description that the once fired brass is military 7.62 brass rather than commercial .308. Unless I'm mistaken, the 7.62 brass will be a bit thicker, meaning you have less volume in the case, which can lead to an increase in pressure. Just something you may want to think about...

Rocko

WESHOOT2 · August 7, 2002, 04:51 AM

But I know a little about handloading; highy recommend you start with the MOST EXPENSIVE case you can afford.

Make it new.

www.grafs.com

Repeat, start with new cases.
You can always buy cheap used cases later.

Always size (and for rifle, trim) new cases. And make sure you've confirmed they have a punched flash hole.

braindead0 · August 7, 2002, 08:18 AM

trim your pistol cases too, it's the only way to get a consistant crimp.

sundog · August 7, 2002, 04:08 PM

Well..., several thoughts. First what weshoot said, if yer gonna shoot it exclusively in same bolt gun, and even more especially if you are looking for a consistently accurate and repeatable load. Keep the lot together for that gun only. I'm doing this right now with 300 of the same lot of Win 308 for a high power bolt match gun, and I am getting superb results while on my second and third times reloading and shooting it. Was not a mistake.

Next, if yer just gonna plink around with a gas gun, and yer on a budget, get the cheap stuff, as long as it's safe. If it's mixed headstamp, don't expect top end loads or accuracy. Sorting and loading by headstamp can help. Also, if military it will more than likely have a crimped primer pocket - more work. Very likley will need to be uniformly trimmed also. Keep in mind that there's nothing wrong with mil brass if properly prepped and powder charges adjusted accordingly. sundog

Steve Smith · August 7, 2002, 04:37 PM

The reason I was asking is that if you really want the best, get some Lapua cases. They should last longer than just about any other case, and they will be much more consistent.

Bacchus · August 7, 2002, 10:07 PM

I think I'm going to stick with the new cases...used are not that much cheaper, and it seems that trimming them and sorting them will be a headache. Also, it'll be easier to keep them all together as sundog mentioned.

C.R.Sam · August 7, 2002, 11:21 PM

Bacchus, I think you made a wise decision.

I disagree with Mal. Unless the seller can specify and guarentee otherwise.....tis likely the "once fired" brass is likely to be a hodgepodge of makers, lots, mil specs, etc etc. With attendent differences in case vollumes. Hence a nightmare to sort into sub lots and work up loads for each.

Go new or all the same fired.

Or for tackdriving target gun....like Steve said....Lapua.

Sam

moredes · August 8, 2002, 02:46 AM

If you gotta have "same-lot" unfired MilSurp brass, here's a source for new cases. (Email from seller claims all one headstamp):

http://www.northwestloading.com/item...1&PRID=1056604

rocko · August 8, 2002, 08:37 AM

Quote:

I think I'm going to stick with the new cases...used are not that much cheaper, and it seems that trimming them and sorting them will be a headache. Also, it'll be easier to keep them all together as sundog mentioned.

FWIW, you're more likely to have to trim the new cases than the once fired ones. Most new brass needs to be trimmed.

Rocko

Johnny Guest · August 8, 2002, 10:01 AM

Bacchus, you noted that the mil brass may have been fired in auto. The stuff fired through M60 mgs is frequently s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d way out. If you have abundant spare time to examine for incipient case head separation after resizing, this can be a good buy. If not, it can be a pain in the neck.

A friend once offered me a 40-pound box of brass, warning me it had been picked up at an MG shoot. The price was cheap, but I decided to pass. He later GAVE me the box. I processed about 300 of 'em and got tired of the hassle.

Suggestion: If economy is a big factor, go to a public shooting range and ask to purchase their sweep-ups, with the stipulation that you do the sorting. I've bought a lot of nice brass in various calibers in this way. But, don't be disappointed if they already have an arrangement with a commercial reloader.

Best regards,
Johnny Guest

C.R.Sam · August 8, 2002, 11:12 AM

Johnny....
Excelent point re stretched auto brass.

Sam

stans · August 9, 2002, 07:46 AM

I avoid once fired .308 because it may very well have been fired in a M-60. Once fired pistol cases are ok, but that is a different animal. I usually buy new cases whenever I can just for consistency and I always know exactly what was fired in them and what type of gun was used to fire them.

August 6, 2002, 01:26 PM	#1
Bacchus Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2001 Posts: 259	Once fired brass vs. New starline cases I'm thinking about getting the dies to load 308 and have some questions about once fired brass. First, I need some brass, as I don't want to only buy ammo, shoot it, and reload those cases. I'll do that for a small quantity (say, less than 100 rounds). Midway has 100 new starline cases for about $10. They also have 500 once fired cases for $30. Here's the description of the cases: once fired, cleaned, polished, deprimed, primer crimp removed, may have been fired in auto, you will need a die capable of returning case to SAAMI dimensions. Does that mean resized? Do Lee dies do this? Starline brass is new, won't it need to be resized, too? I seem to remember a recent thread about someone who bought 500 rounds of 9mm and got lots of 40 and 380. Even if I have to throw away 100 cases, I'd still be ahead with the bulk stuff. But then again, I will probably only reload 100 at a time and shoot 30 or so each range trip. Do I need 500 cases? If I use a bolt action, lost brass shouldn't be a problem. Keep in mind I reload on a single stage. Which would you buy and why? Thanks.

August 6, 2002, 02:03 PM	#3
Bacchus Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2001 Posts: 259	Oops..you're right But I did mean 308. Here's some updated info: Remington new cases: $6 for 20, $20 for 100. Once fired, grade 1: $15 for 100, $31 for 500. Having noted that, which would you all recommend?

August 6, 2002, 02:04 PM	#4
Steve Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 1999 Posts: 4,131	Auto loader or bolt? __________________ Favor the X. Steve Smith NRA Life Member

August 7, 2002, 04:51 AM	#8
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	DON'T KNOW RIFLES But I know a little about handloading; highy recommend you start with the MOST EXPENSIVE case you can afford. Make it new. www.grafs.com Repeat, start with new cases. You can always buy cheap used cases later. Always size (and for rifle, trim) new cases. And make sure you've confirmed they have a punched flash hole. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

August 7, 2002, 08:18 AM	#9
braindead0 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2002 Location: Canton, Oh Posts: 896	trim your pistol cases too, it's the only way to get a consistant crimp. __________________ DoD# 2223 Meum scapha volitare plenum anguillae

August 6, 2002, 01:48 PM	#2
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,955	This might be the kicker towards going for the once-fired brass: Starline doesn't make 308 brass. Now, if that was a typo and you meant .380, then I would go for the Starline, but not from Midway. Buy 500 directly from Starline for approx. $12 more than the 500 once-fired stuff. You won't have to throw away any brass, you will have the best available, you will probably never have to buy any again at the rate you indicated you will use it, Starline pays the shipping. I generally find that I don't have to resize Starline for the first loading, but it won't hurt if you do. You will definitely have to resize the bulk brass.

August 6, 2002, 02:07 PM	#5
Bacchus Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2001 Posts: 259	Almost definitely bolt action.

August 6, 2002, 02:15 PM	#6
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,955	You're most likely not striving for match ammo, so I'd opt for the 500 once fired brass - it's just a much better deal. I doubt you'd get any non-308 brass in there. Yes, you will have to resize it, and yes, Lee dies will work fine for the job. (Almost definitely, eh? )

August 6, 2002, 02:31 PM	#7
rocko Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2001 Posts: 229	It appears from the description that the once fired brass is military 7.62 brass rather than commercial .308. Unless I'm mistaken, the 7.62 brass will be a bit thicker, meaning you have less volume in the case, which can lead to an increase in pressure. Just something you may want to think about... Rocko

August 7, 2002, 04:08 PM	#10
sundog Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 1999 Location: Green Country, OK Posts: 782	Well..., several thoughts. First what weshoot said, if yer gonna shoot it exclusively in same bolt gun, and even more especially if you are looking for a consistently accurate and repeatable load. Keep the lot together for that gun only. I'm doing this right now with 300 of the same lot of Win 308 for a high power bolt match gun, and I am getting superb results while on my second and third times reloading and shooting it. Was not a mistake. Next, if yer just gonna plink around with a gas gun, and yer on a budget, get the cheap stuff, as long as it's safe. If it's mixed headstamp, don't expect top end loads or accuracy. Sorting and loading by headstamp can help. Also, if military it will more than likely have a crimped primer pocket - more work. Very likley will need to be uniformly trimmed also. Keep in mind that there's nothing wrong with mil brass if properly prepped and powder charges adjusted accordingly. sundog __________________ safety first

August 7, 2002, 04:37 PM	#11
Steve Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 1999 Posts: 4,131	The reason I was asking is that if you really want the best, get some Lapua cases. They should last longer than just about any other case, and they will be much more consistent. __________________ Favor the X. Steve Smith NRA Life Member

August 7, 2002, 10:07 PM	#12
Bacchus Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2001 Posts: 259	Thanks a lot for the replies I think I'm going to stick with the new cases...used are not that much cheaper, and it seems that trimming them and sorting them will be a headache. Also, it'll be easier to keep them all together as sundog mentioned.

August 7, 2002, 11:21 PM	#13
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Bacchus, I think you made a wise decision. I disagree with Mal. Unless the seller can specify and guarentee otherwise.....tis likely the "once fired" brass is likely to be a hodgepodge of makers, lots, mil specs, etc etc. With attendent differences in case vollumes. Hence a nightmare to sort into sub lots and work up loads for each. Go new or all the same fired. Or for tackdriving target gun....like Steve said....Lapua. Sam

August 8, 2002, 02:46 AM	#14
moredes Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2001 Posts: 325	If you gotta have "same-lot" unfired MilSurp brass, here's a source for new cases. (Email from seller claims all one headstamp): http://www.northwestloading.com/item...1&PRID=1056604

August 8, 2002, 10:01 AM	#16
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	One more point about military .308 brass - - - Bacchus, you noted that the mil brass may have been fired in auto. The stuff fired through M60 mgs is frequently s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d way out. If you have abundant spare time to examine for incipient case head separation after resizing, this can be a good buy. If not, it can be a pain in the neck. A friend once offered me a 40-pound box of brass, warning me it had been picked up at an MG shoot. The price was cheap, but I decided to pass. He later GAVE me the box. I processed about 300 of 'em and got tired of the hassle. Suggestion: If economy is a big factor, go to a public shooting range and ask to purchase their sweep-ups, with the stipulation that you do the sorting. I've bought a lot of nice brass in various calibers in this way. But, don't be disappointed if they already have an arrangement with a commercial reloader. Best regards, Johnny Guest

August 8, 2002, 11:12 AM	#17
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Johnny.... Excelent point re stretched auto brass. Sam

August 9, 2002, 07:46 AM	#18
stans Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2001 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 838	I avoid once fired .308 because it may very well have been fired in a M-60. Once fired pistol cases are ok, but that is a different animal. I usually buy new cases whenever I can just for consistency and I always know exactly what was fired in them and what type of gun was used to fire them.