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March 19, 2009, 01:02 PM | #1 |
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legal question about bp firearems
Just curious to know if a california resident has a restriction to own firearms can he or she still own a black powder firearm.It would seem to me since there is no background check on a black powder firearm to prevent its purchase that it would be legal to have.Please let me know if my reasoning is flawed or not?
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March 19, 2009, 01:23 PM | #2 |
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As far as I have read/heard I dont think any black powder guns count as a firearm. Good questuin tho
I wouldnt go threading the barrel and screwing on a silencer or anything to rock the boat but I suspect it shouldnt be a problem to own a bp.... Muzza
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March 19, 2009, 01:31 PM | #3 |
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Check your local laws. The BATFE doesn't classify bp guns as guns but some local laws do.
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March 19, 2009, 01:34 PM | #4 |
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from the research ive done the feds dont require them to be a firearm.I do not know what the republic of kalifornia says,but i am trying to find out.
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March 19, 2009, 01:46 PM | #5 |
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You need to do your own research, but I believe I read in some CA DOJ firearms document that they are considered firearms by the state of California. As such, if one is restricted from possessing firearms, that would include percussion, flintlock, you name it.
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March 20, 2009, 04:41 AM | #6 |
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California and NJ are very close to having the same insane laws. NJ they are a firearm,and treated as such :barf::barf:. check with the law in California
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March 20, 2009, 10:21 AM | #7 |
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From CA Penal Code 12001:
(e) For purposes of Sections 12070, 12071, and paragraph (8) of subdivision (a), and subdivisions (b), (c), (d), and (f) of Section 12072, the term "firearm" does not include an unloaded firearm that is defined as an "antique firearm" in Section 921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code. 18 USC 921 (a)(16): (16) The term “antique firearm” means— (A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or (B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica— (i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or (ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or (C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term “antique firearm” shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof. 12070 and 12071 are "License to sell firearms", so it does NOT require an FFL to sell BP firearms in CA. |
March 20, 2009, 08:30 PM | #8 |
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If a convicted felon gets caught by the BATFE with blackpowder or a substitute that person is in serious trouble.
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March 21, 2009, 05:37 PM | #9 | |
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Quote:
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March 21, 2009, 05:41 PM | #10 |
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Try carrying one into a courthouse and you will be slamdunked before you can sneeze. BP guns are the Original Firearm before everyone had to have an Uzi or Ak
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March 21, 2009, 06:53 PM | #11 | |
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March 22, 2009, 11:18 AM | #12 | ||
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Quote:
It matters not what state law says or does not say about felons in possession of ammunition and blackpowder guns. The BATFE calls blackpowder an explosive. Felons may not possess explosives. Felons may not possess ammunition. The feds will often go after felons who possess ammunition when no gun is found. CITE: Title 18, Section 922 (g) (1) http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/922.html Quote:
Appeals courts routinely uphold guilty verdicts from lower courts: http://circuit10.blogspot.com/2009/0...ession-of.html Google up: "felon in possession of ammunition" Last edited by thallub; March 22, 2009 at 11:30 AM. |
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March 22, 2009, 02:03 PM | #13 | |||
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Quote:
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March 22, 2009, 02:23 PM | #14 | |
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Yes, for recreational purposes. However look at the current BATFE list of explosive materails at the link i posted. Black powder is on that list. BTW: Felons are not allowed to possess any component of ammunition, not even bullets or cartridge cases. |
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March 22, 2009, 09:54 PM | #15 |
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First of all this link you posted:
http://boston.fbi.gov/dojpressrel/pr...poss021009.htm Was in reference to a felon possessing 1000 .50 cal shell casings. That has nothing to do with black powder or black powder guns. Shell casings are a component of modern, centerfire ammunition. Second, yes, black powder is on the list of explosives, however, as stated in Federal regulations, a quantity of less than 50 lbs used for sporting purposes is specifically NOT considered possession of an explosive. Use in a black powder rifle or pistol is a sporting purpose. |
March 22, 2009, 10:01 PM | #16 | |
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This is from a rather dubious forum, but if you call the BATFE, I am sure you will get the same answer:
Quote:
Some states, however, will define the muzzleloader as a firearm and prohibit possession by a felon, so it depends upon state law. |
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March 22, 2009, 10:15 PM | #17 |
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FWIW, Illinois considers BP to be a firearm. Likewise high velocity BB guns.
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March 23, 2009, 05:33 PM | #18 |
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March 23, 2009, 06:25 PM | #19 |
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So by your findings you can take a muzzleloader into a Federal Courthouse?
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