union switch and signal

Brian76 · February 11, 2011, 08:48 AM

I recently inherited a union switch & signal 1911a1 and thought I would put a couple rounds through it before I put it up for good. When I load the mag it feels like the spring is shot. Would any replacement 1911 mag work or is there anyway to fix it?

Jimmy10mm · February 11, 2011, 09:28 AM

That is a rare pistol and AFAIK worth it's weight in gold.

Yes you could replace the mag spring but I wouldn't if it is the original mag. Any 1911 mag should work. Welcome to TFL. Photos would be greatly appreciated, eye candy y'know ......

MadHatter1 · February 11, 2011, 09:31 AM

I wouldn't fire that pistol until you have its condition assessed. Other than Singer, the US&S is the rarest 1911A1 out there. What you have is one of 5 thousand made, and probably worth at least $3k, assuming its all origional.
To get to your origional question, yes, any full-size 1911 magazine will work. They do make an Officers model 1911, the magazines are slightly smaller, and typicaly hold 6 rounds, instead of 7 or 8.

Baba Louie · February 11, 2011, 09:41 AM

Brian, welcome to TFL.

If you are planning on shooting that US&S (nice inheritance BTW) take it to a local smith and have all springs replaced (at least looked at to determine their condition... which is probably old). Including the mag spring.

Shoot it sparingly, cause if it breaks... well, they ain't making 'em like that one anymore.

MadHatter1 · February 11, 2011, 10:00 AM

Quote:

If you are planning on shooting that US&S (nice inheritance BTW) take it to a local smith and have all springs replaced (at least looked at to determine their condition... which is probably old). Including the mag spring.

NOOOOOO!!!
Do not replace ANYTHING on this pistol until someone familiar with WWII weapons (not the 24 year old 'gunsmith' at the local shop) determines exactly what you have i.e. is it all origional, arsenal rebuild, hacked by a kitchen-table smith and the overall condition of the pistol.
Just because the springs are old dosen't mean its unsafe or unable to function. Odds are, it doesn't need anything changed out. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
If you have an all origional US&S, ant its in 75-80% condition, its worth at least $3k, probably more. Change all the springs, and it becomes a $1k shooter.
What you have is a very rare 1911 pistol. Altering it in any way will destroy the historical value of it.
There's nothing wrong with shooting it once in a while, I take my US&S out about once a year, put an magazine or 2 through it, and fondly remenber being 6 years old and my granddaddy teacing me to shoot with that pistol. But its not an everyday range gun

cecILL · February 11, 2011, 10:01 AM

Don't do ANYTHING until you know what you have. This site has a special section just for USS: http://forums.1911forum.com/

Brian76 · February 11, 2011, 10:02 AM

I had a guy at scheels look at it and he said everything looks good on it, I guess he didn't check the mag. I'm not sure if i'm going to shoot it, if I do it would only be 50 rounds. I will try to post pics sometime this weekend.

Locoweed · February 11, 2011, 10:49 AM

FIFTY ROUNDS !! Are you insane? Is this a troll?

Brian76 · February 11, 2011, 11:01 AM

I'm not trolling. I'm just trying to get info from people that know alot more about this gun than I do. If it's a bad idea to even shoot this gun then i'm not going to.

MadHatter1 · February 11, 2011, 11:21 AM

I don't believe is a bad idea to shoot it lightly.... 7-14 rounds every year or so. 50 rounds in one sitting is probably a little abusive.
At this point, you really don't know what you have. Get it looked at, and make your decisions from there

highcaliberprovider · February 11, 2011, 11:25 AM

If you must pull the trigger, then use a mil surplus magazine. They should only cost you 8-10 bucks. If the mag matches, don't change the spring. The weapon is both historically and monetarily valuable. Preserve it for future generations of shooters.

bossman · February 11, 2011, 11:26 AM

Don't shoot it and by all means keep it original, at least as you got it. Very rare, lucky you.

David the Gnome · February 11, 2011, 01:45 PM

Just to put this in perspective, during WWII 1.9 million 1911's were made. Of those 1.9 million, only 2.6% were made by Union Switch and Signal. There is only one manufacturer who's 1911's were more rare and that was Singer who only made 500 during the war.

What you have there is one extremely valuable piece of history. Please do some research and take your time in evaluating whether or not you really want to shoot or modify this firearm. If you just want a 1911 to shoot there are many cost effective options out there that don't involve potentially ruining such a valuable historical weapon.

Kreyzhorse · February 11, 2011, 01:53 PM

Personally, I don't believe in guns that shouldn't be fired. Your gun however is exception. Do not fire it!

If this gun is all original, you've got a very rare, and expensive piece of history.

If you don't post some pictures, we will come and find you.

scottl · February 11, 2011, 02:02 PM

Check out these pages for more info on WWII USGI 1911's

http://www.coolgunsite.com/
http://www.model1911a1.com/ (Has US&S page)
http://www.m1911info.com/

There are several 1911 USGI collectors over at 1911forum.Get some really good pics of it and post it up over there.They will tell you what you need to know.

Rugerismisticness · February 11, 2011, 03:02 PM

Don't shoot it. It needs authentication, then a good storage. I'm no expert on antiques, but I would keep the finish and parts well oiled so they don 't rust or deteriorate even more.

Brian76 · February 11, 2011, 08:39 PM

Brian76 · February 11, 2011, 08:49 PM

geetarman · February 11, 2011, 10:06 PM

deleted

Jimmy10mm · February 11, 2011, 10:27 PM

Thanks. That is beautiful. It would probably be fine shooting it but as nice a shape as it is in I would probably not. I would lube it and wipe it down with a silicone gun cloth and put it in a really safe place.

Kreyzhorse · February 11, 2011, 10:45 PM

I agree that its likely fine to fire, but like I posted earlier I wouldn't fire. That gun looks like it is excellent shape. Congrats on the gun and take care of it.

**Tom Servo** · February 11, 2011, 11:00 PM

I saw my first one a few weeks ago. A guy came in asking me to "check out" his gun and determine whether it was safe to fire. It was "a .45" that he wanted to carry while hiking.

So, I reached into the sock (it's always a sock) and pulled it free. Right as I saw the Swissvale marking, a little devil on my shoulder said, "offer him $700 for it." Of course, there wouldn't have been any hiding the look of astonishment on my face.

It had a little surface rust and no box. It wasn't pristine, so after cleaning it up, I let him shoot it. It's a military weapon: a few rounds of mild ball every now and then won't harm it.

After having it apart and looking at the machining, I can see that these things have value not just from scarcity, but from quality as well.

My advice? Keep it clean and oiled, and heck, run a few rounds through once a year or so.

Auto426 · February 12, 2011, 12:01 AM

If it is original and all of the numbers match, then you have a very valuable gun on your hands. They are highly sought after by collectors. Do not change any of the parts on the gun before you know exactly what you have.

Also, I have to agree with the others saying it should not be shot. These old pre-1945 guns had little or, in most cases, no heat treating done to their slides and frames. There are cases of guys cracking the frames and slides on these old guns by shooting them too much, and with a gun that valuable, its best not to take a chance. Just keep it clean, oiled, and leave it alone.

gyvel · February 12, 2011, 12:05 AM

Quote:

What you have is one of 5 thousand made,

I believe that is FIFTY FIVE thousand made, not 5 thousand.

Jim Watson · February 12, 2011, 12:07 AM

All of the numbers match?

What are you talking about, Auto? That is a funny foreign thing. American guns don't have numbers all over the place. Colt put the serial number on the slide for a while but not all the time and none of the contractors did. It takes knowledgeable inspection to tell that a USGI gun is correct and original. There was a thread on another board about a buyer who got auction fever on a pristine looking Navy issue 1911 that turned out to be a very pretty Turnbull reblue.

February 11, 2011, 08:48 AM	#1
Brian76 Junior Member Join Date: February 11, 2011 Posts: 5	union switch and signal I recently inherited a union switch & signal 1911a1 and thought I would put a couple rounds through it before I put it up for good. When I load the mag it feels like the spring is shot. Would any replacement 1911 mag work or is there anyway to fix it?

February 11, 2011, 09:41 AM	#4
Baba Louie Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2001 Posts: 1,552	Brian, welcome to TFL. If you are planning on shooting that US&S (nice inheritance BTW) take it to a local smith and have all springs replaced (at least looked at to determine their condition... which is probably old). Including the mag spring. Shoot it sparingly, cause if it breaks... well, they ain't making 'em like that one anymore. __________________ A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." - George Washington, January 8, 1790, First State of the Union Address

February 11, 2011, 11:25 AM	#11
highcaliberprovider Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2010 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 143	If you must pull the trigger, then use a mil surplus magazine. They should only cost you 8-10 bucks. If the mag matches, don't change the spring. The weapon is both historically and monetarily valuable. Preserve it for future generations of shooters. __________________ "Those who hammer their guns into plow shears will become subject to those who do not."

February 11, 2011, 11:26 AM	#12
bossman Senior Member Join Date: November 16, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 996	Don't shoot it and by all means keep it original, at least as you got it. Very rare, lucky you. __________________ NRA life member When the going gets tough, I just open another beer.

February 11, 2011, 01:45 PM	#13
David the Gnome Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2007 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 3,092	Just to put this in perspective, during WWII 1.9 million 1911's were made. Of those 1.9 million, only 2.6% were made by Union Switch and Signal. There is only one manufacturer who's 1911's were more rare and that was Singer who only made 500 during the war. What you have there is one extremely valuable piece of history. Please do some research and take your time in evaluating whether or not you really want to shoot or modify this firearm. If you just want a 1911 to shoot there are many cost effective options out there that don't involve potentially ruining such a valuable historical weapon. __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum.

February 11, 2011, 09:31 AM	#3
MadHatter1 Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2010 Posts: 151	I wouldn't fire that pistol until you have its condition assessed. Other than Singer, the US&S is the rarest 1911A1 out there. What you have is one of 5 thousand made, and probably worth at least $3k, assuming its all origional. To get to your origional question, yes, any full-size 1911 magazine will work. They do make an Officers model 1911, the magazines are slightly smaller, and typicaly hold 6 rounds, instead of 7 or 8.

February 11, 2011, 10:01 AM	#6
cecILL Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2001 Location: central IL Posts: 769	Don't do ANYTHING until you know what you have. This site has a special section just for USS: http://forums.1911forum.com/

February 11, 2011, 10:02 AM	#7
Brian76 Junior Member Join Date: February 11, 2011 Posts: 5	I had a guy at scheels look at it and he said everything looks good on it, I guess he didn't check the mag. I'm not sure if i'm going to shoot it, if I do it would only be 50 rounds. I will try to post pics sometime this weekend.

February 11, 2011, 10:49 AM	#8
Locoweed Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2008 Location: Alabama Posts: 661	FIFTY ROUNDS !! Are you insane? Is this a troll?

February 11, 2011, 11:01 AM	#9
Brian76 Junior Member Join Date: February 11, 2011 Posts: 5	I'm not trolling. I'm just trying to get info from people that know alot more about this gun than I do. If it's a bad idea to even shoot this gun then i'm not going to.

February 11, 2011, 11:21 AM	#10
MadHatter1 Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2010 Posts: 151	I don't believe is a bad idea to shoot it lightly.... 7-14 rounds every year or so. 50 rounds in one sitting is probably a little abusive. At this point, you really don't know what you have. Get it looked at, and make your decisions from there

February 11, 2011, 01:53 PM	#14
Kreyzhorse Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2006 Location: NKY Posts: 12,463	Personally, I don't believe in guns that shouldn't be fired. Your gun however is exception. Do not fire it! If this gun is all original, you've got a very rare, and expensive piece of history. If you don't post some pictures, we will come and find you. __________________ "He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson

February 11, 2011, 02:02 PM	#15
scottl Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2007 Location: Morehead,Ky Posts: 752	Check out these pages for more info on WWII USGI 1911's http://www.coolgunsite.com/ http://www.model1911a1.com/ (Has US&S page) http://www.m1911info.com/ There are several 1911 USGI collectors over at 1911forum.Get some really good pics of it and post it up over there.They will tell you what you need to know.

February 11, 2011, 03:02 PM	#16
Rugerismisticness Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2010 Posts: 909	Don't shoot it. It needs authentication, then a good storage. I'm no expert on antiques, but I would keep the finish and parts well oiled so they don 't rust or deteriorate even more.

February 11, 2011, 08:39 PM	#17
Brian76 Junior Member Join Date: February 11, 2011 Posts: 5

February 11, 2011, 08:49 PM	#18
Brian76 Junior Member Join Date: February 11, 2011 Posts: 5

February 11, 2011, 10:06 PM	#19
geetarman Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,157	deleted

February 11, 2011, 10:45 PM	#21
Kreyzhorse Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2006 Location: NKY Posts: 12,463	I agree that its likely fine to fire, but like I posted earlier I wouldn't fire. That gun looks like it is excellent shape. Congrats on the gun and take care of it. __________________ "He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson

February 11, 2011, 11:00 PM	#22
Tom Servo Staff Join Date: September 27, 2008 Location: Foothills of the Appalachians Posts: 13,059	I saw my first one a few weeks ago. A guy came in asking me to "check out" his gun and determine whether it was safe to fire. It was "a .45" that he wanted to carry while hiking. So, I reached into the sock (it's always a sock) and pulled it free. Right as I saw the Swissvale marking, a little devil on my shoulder said, "offer him $700 for it." Of course, there wouldn't have been any hiding the look of astonishment on my face. It had a little surface rust and no box. It wasn't pristine, so after cleaning it up, I let him shoot it. It's a military weapon: a few rounds of mild ball every now and then won't harm it. After having it apart and looking at the machining, I can see that these things have value not just from scarcity, but from quality as well. My advice? Keep it clean and oiled, and heck, run a few rounds through once a year or so. __________________ Sometimes it’s nice not to destroy the world for a change. --Randall Munroe

February 12, 2011, 12:01 AM	#23
Auto426 Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2007 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 1,323	If it is original and all of the numbers match, then you have a very valuable gun on your hands. They are highly sought after by collectors. Do not change any of the parts on the gun before you know exactly what you have. Also, I have to agree with the others saying it should not be shot. These old pre-1945 guns had little or, in most cases, no heat treating done to their slides and frames. There are cases of guys cracking the frames and slides on these old guns by shooting them too much, and with a gun that valuable, its best not to take a chance. Just keep it clean, oiled, and leave it alone. __________________ *"Si vis pacem, para bellum"* - If you want peace, prepare for war.

February 12, 2011, 12:07 AM	#25
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	All of the numbers match? What are you talking about, Auto? That is a funny foreign thing. American guns don't have numbers all over the place. Colt put the serial number on the slide for a while but not all the time and none of the contractors did. It takes knowledgeable inspection to tell that a USGI gun is correct and original. There was a thread on another board about a buyer who got auction fever on a pristine looking Navy issue 1911 that turned out to be a very pretty Turnbull reblue.