2 3/4 wimpy vs 3 1/2 mag

FlyboyAZ · January 27, 2002, 04:32 PM

Alright Guys give me a hand.

What is the difference between a 2 3/4 shell and a 3 1/2 shell? I know the length is different but does the 3 1/2 have more powder and same shot or more of both. I have a Benelli Nova that can handle the 3 1/2 and will give the magnuim shells a try. Before I use this meat tenderizer on my shoulder I would like to know exactly what the magnum shells will do for me. Will I improve my clay shooting if I use the 3 1/2 or does it matter?

Also, it seems like the 7 1/4 shot is most common but what size is best for knocking down hand thrown clays?

Still flying. Still shooting. Feeling good.

Dave McC · January 27, 2002, 05:21 PM

The 3 1/2" job will do a Wallet-Vac on your discretionary income, build a flinch PDQ, and in general, be counter productive unless you're doing heavy waterfowling.

The big advantage to the 3 1/2" shell and gun to fit it is realized by the ammo and gun makers. It enabled them to sell new stuff to folks with closets,racks and gunsafes full of perfectly good shotguns.

The 3 1/2 was designed for major loads of (Ptui) steel shot. Since the stuff has the same ballistic co-efficient as popcorn or Rice Krispies, they went by the More Is Better Principle and now goose hunters will be able to cripple more geese further out.

And, unless you're into pain, the big 3 1/2" job is NOT the best learning load. Trust me.

BTW, the Novas run light, and I would need a very good reason before firing off a howitzer load in less than an 8 1/2 lb shotgun. There's a good reason 10 gauges run up to 12 lbs.

And I'm no sissy. I've enjoyed firing a 375 H&H mag, have hunted with 45-70s, and love shooting slugs from my 870s. But, if I ever come up with a good reason for owning a 3 1/2" chambered shotgun, and shoot it with those long shells, Satan will have the chilblains...

Adamantium · January 27, 2002, 05:49 PM

You've nailed the main difference, the 3 1/2 inch case has more room for shot or powder or a bit of both. The main reason foor people using 3 1/2 inch shells and to an extent 3 inch shells is because of steel shot, which you shoulden't have to worry about just target shooting. In fact I usually use a fairly light 2 3/4 shell for shooting clay pigeons and do just as well as if I was using a more powerful shell.

For size, most people use either #7 1/2 or #8 shot. I use those (depending what I have on hand at the moment) about 90% of the time because they are perfectly sized for clay pigeons. Occasionally I'll shoot a few boxes of #6 shot because thats what my upland huntling load is and it is always nice to know you can still hit stuff with that. Payload wise most people also use 1 oz. or 1 1/8th oz.

Thats about it though, it's a whole lot more about having fun and getting better at hitting moving targets than it is about having the latest cutting edge in shotshell design. Before I got my reloading press I just went with what brand of ammo was on sale at the store and stocked up. My personal favorite was Remmington Sport loads and Winchester Universal. Both run a bit under $4 for a box of 25.

Sincerely,
Adam

slick slidestop · January 27, 2002, 06:56 PM

It might help with Geese or Turkey, but I never had a problem in over 20 years shooting ducks with 2 3/4 out of a 20 guage, and then 2 3/4 out of my 12 guage.....as a matter of fact I have never shot 3" mags out of my 12 guage in the 15 years I have owned it.

Then again, maybe my location and hunting circumstances don't require it and yours might

Dave R · January 28, 2002, 01:03 PM

Hunted ducks for the first time this year (so I am far from an expert). Most of the hunting was pass-shooting at 30-50 yards. Long stuff. People I shot with used 10ga, and all 3 sizes of 12ga (2 3/4, 3, 3 1/2). Mostly steel shot, with a few Bismuth exceptions. Here are my observations.

I never saw a duck taken with a 2 3/4 shell. Then again, this was all pretty long stuff. Over decoys, probably no problem.

Also never saw a duck taken with steel shot smaller than BB. Saw one taken with Bismuth 2's.

The guys with 10ga and 3 1/2 12 ga did not seem to harvest noticeably more than the 12ga 3". The guy who seemed to have the most success used 3" 12ga with size T shot.

The only load I patterned in my 870 was a 3" BB load, and it patterned beautifully. I had to use some other loads when I ran out of the 3" BB, but never hit a duck with anything else.

The guy I hunted with most used 3 1/2". He and I did about equally well. Can't remember whether he or I got one more duck than the other, but it was pretty close.

IMHO, getting the lead right on those long ducks, and having shot big enough to carry some energy, was more important than having an extra 1/8-1/2 oz of shot in the load. Velocity seemed important. Everyone was using loads rated at 1500fps.

43Rob · January 28, 2002, 08:02 PM

I am new to the 3 1/2" but the stuff I am now reading says that the velocity is everything in waterfowl and some of the "waterfowl" 3 1/2" shoots slower that the same 3" especially with steel shot.

Chuck Graber · January 28, 2002, 08:40 PM

FlyboyAZ,
If you show up at almost any clay target range with 3-1/2" shells you wil probably be asked to leave. I don't know of any ranges that will even allow 3" shells, although I have seen some shooters sneak them onto the course.

The best thing for knocking down any clay targets is 2-3/4" shells and the proper technique. Clay targets don't take a lot of energy to break and the standard 1-1/8oz. load can break clay targets out to a suprising distance if you do your job. Save your money on shells and buy a few more rounds of clays, trap or skeet, or even better find a pro and take some lessons.

Chuck Graber

labgrade · January 29, 2002, 12:35 AM

All good advice.

I got wrapped in the "must have a 3" hype" & believe that, for me, has its merits for a bit longer range on turkeys. Other than that, It doesn't do me any good whatsoever. More expensive, harder boot to the shoulder & those 3" shells don't fit the rest of my 12 870s. (wah! &

) BTW, the 3" 12 I did buy was a 21" bbl turkey express, so it was a default 3" Glad I have it & it's used for 90% with 2-3/4" shells. A 20 gauge will do those tasks just as well.

Where the 3-1/2" "shines" is with the steel waterfowl shells - it attempts to duplicate a 10 gauge. Added velocity is a "good thing" for steel as it doesn't have the ballistically superior density of lead & loses its umph quicker as a result.

For clays, suggest 2-3/4" 1 -1-1/8oz in #7-1/2-8 as mentioned (#9s if you can find them). Only way to know what yours will do is to pattern. Buy a few different loadings & shoot with different chokes to see what yours will do. Stick with what you find that works. The harder shot tends to pattern better.

For upland birds, 2-3/4" 1 - 1-1/8oz #7-1/2-8s for quail, etc. & #4-6 in 1 - 1-1/4oz for phesants/rabbits, etc.

Imp cylinder for w/in 25 yards or so & modified for further. Steel will tend to pattern as full from a modified choke - but it all varies & YMMV.

"Re-learning" shotguns after a long hiatus ....

& guaranteed that there are 3" shells (the Active Penetrator's 3", 2-1/4oz of #4s, for example) will let you know you've touched one off! not to mention several other magnum varieties in this class. Can't imagine shooting skeet with any! ;( &

(yes. i'm a puss .... )

Hal · January 29, 2002, 06:01 AM

Quote:

If you show up at almost any clay target range with 3-1/2" shells you wil probably be asked to leave.

??
I'm curious as to why? Is it a matter of range or muzzle blast?

Chuck Graber · January 29, 2002, 06:59 PM

RAE,
Every range that I have ever been to has their range rules posted and the max load at all of them is a 3 dram 1-1/8oz. load. I know that NSCA and NSSA also mandate this load as the maximum allowable load for competition.

The reason is the range of shotfall. A range owner needs to be able to plan for the maximum shotfall area and be able to keep people out of unsafe areas. They also have a responsibility to keep shot from raining onto adjacent properties.

I should point out that the ranges that I visit don't mind if you use magnum loads at their patterning boards as these are most often backed up by a bunker or berm. There is no chance of errant shot escaping here, but keep the magnum loads out of your gun on the clays course.

Chuck Graber

Hal · January 29, 2002, 08:20 PM

Chuck,
Thanks for the info.

MississippiDave · January 31, 2002, 04:13 PM

Where does the 12 ga. 2 3/4 , 3, 3 1/2 fit along side the 10 ga. 3 1/2? My buddy just bought a new Browning BPS 10 ga. He plans to shot turkey , ducks and deer.

How much better in terms of muzzle velocity and energy is the 10ga. than the 3 1/2 load?

Dave McC · February 1, 2002, 05:09 AM

3 1/2" 10 and 12 ga loads have similar velocity and energy numbers, MD. Where they differ is in the quality of the patterns. The 12 load pushes too much shot through too small a diameter bbl for best patterns.

FlyboyAZ · February 1, 2002, 02:53 PM

Well I have heard a lot now and it all sounds pretty good. This was good advice for someone starting out and I am trying to soak up everything I can from loades, chokes, to game rules. I have been practicing my mount and swing with my UNLOADED shotgun back home so this weekend I should be busting clays consistantly. Thanks again.

Hawkaaa53 · February 2, 2002, 07:18 PM

Hey FlyboyAZ ,

Talk to Dave about reducing the recoil of your NOVA ; to go out , with little practice , and shoot 4 rounds of clays is quite daring ( your shoulder to turn all sorts of less than pretty shades of blue 'n purple ) and it might work on your cheek as well .

Next , get some "dummies" to put in your gun as you practice your mount , that may give you a more realistic feel .

When you "cheek " that pump's stock ; it just might s(t)ock your cheek , Hawkaaa53

January 27, 2002, 04:32 PM	#1
FlyboyAZ Member Join Date: April 9, 2001 Location: Northern Arizona Posts: 65	2 3/4 wimpy vs 3 1/2 mag Alright Guys give me a hand. What is the difference between a 2 3/4 shell and a 3 1/2 shell? I know the length is different but does the 3 1/2 have more powder and same shot or more of both. I have a Benelli Nova that can handle the 3 1/2 and will give the magnuim shells a try. Before I use this meat tenderizer on my shoulder I would like to know exactly what the magnum shells will do for me. Will I improve my clay shooting if I use the 3 1/2 or does it matter? Also, it seems like the 7 1/4 shot is most common but what size is best for knocking down hand thrown clays? Still flying. Still shooting. Feeling good.

January 27, 2002, 05:49 PM	#3
Adamantium Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 1999 Location: El Paso, TX Posts: 1,021	You've nailed the main difference, the 3 1/2 inch case has more room for shot or powder or a bit of both. The main reason foor people using 3 1/2 inch shells and to an extent 3 inch shells is because of steel shot, which you shoulden't have to worry about just target shooting. In fact I usually use a fairly light 2 3/4 shell for shooting clay pigeons and do just as well as if I was using a more powerful shell. For size, most people use either #7 1/2 or #8 shot. I use those (depending what I have on hand at the moment) about 90% of the time because they are perfectly sized for clay pigeons. Occasionally I'll shoot a few boxes of #6 shot because thats what my upland huntling load is and it is always nice to know you can still hit stuff with that. Payload wise most people also use 1 oz. or 1 1/8th oz. Thats about it though, it's a whole lot more about having fun and getting better at hitting moving targets than it is about having the latest cutting edge in shotshell design. Before I got my reloading press I just went with what brand of ammo was on sale at the store and stocked up. My personal favorite was Remmington Sport loads and Winchester Universal. Both run a bit under $4 for a box of 25. Sincerely, Adam __________________ New gun, same ol' shot.

January 28, 2002, 01:03 PM	#5
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 6,073	Hunted ducks for the first time this year (so I am far from an expert). Most of the hunting was pass-shooting at 30-50 yards. Long stuff. People I shot with used 10ga, and all 3 sizes of 12ga (2 3/4, 3, 3 1/2). Mostly steel shot, with a few Bismuth exceptions. Here are my observations. I never saw a duck taken with a 2 3/4 shell. Then again, this was all pretty long stuff. Over decoys, probably no problem. Also never saw a duck taken with steel shot smaller than BB. Saw one taken with Bismuth 2's. The guys with 10ga and 3 1/2 12 ga did not seem to harvest noticeably more than the 12ga 3". The guy who seemed to have the most success used 3" 12ga with size T shot. The only load I patterned in my 870 was a 3" BB load, and it patterned beautifully. I had to use some other loads when I ran out of the 3" BB, but never hit a duck with anything else. The guy I hunted with most used 3 1/2". He and I did about equally well. Can't remember whether he or I got one more duck than the other, but it was pretty close. IMHO, getting the lead right on those long ducks, and having shot big enough to carry some energy, was more important than having an extra 1/8-1/2 oz of shot in the load. Velocity seemed important. Everyone was using loads rated at 1500fps. __________________ I am Pro-Rights (on gun issues).

January 31, 2002, 04:13 PM	#12
MississippiDave Junior Member Join Date: December 2, 2001 Posts: 9	Where does 10 ga. fit into the mix Where does the 12 ga. 2 3/4 , 3, 3 1/2 fit along side the 10 ga. 3 1/2? My buddy just bought a new Browning BPS 10 ga. He plans to shot turkey , ducks and deer. How much better in terms of muzzle velocity and energy is the 10ga. than the 3 1/2 load?

February 1, 2002, 02:53 PM	#14
FlyboyAZ Member Join Date: April 9, 2001 Location: Northern Arizona Posts: 65	Thanks Guys Well I have heard a lot now and it all sounds pretty good. This was good advice for someone starting out and I am trying to soak up everything I can from loades, chokes, to game rules. I have been practicing my mount and swing with my UNLOADED shotgun back home so this weekend I should be busting clays consistantly. Thanks again.

January 27, 2002, 05:21 PM	#2
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	The 3 1/2" job will do a Wallet-Vac on your discretionary income, build a flinch PDQ, and in general, be counter productive unless you're doing heavy waterfowling. The big advantage to the 3 1/2" shell and gun to fit it is realized by the ammo and gun makers. It enabled them to sell new stuff to folks with closets,racks and gunsafes full of perfectly good shotguns. The 3 1/2 was designed for major loads of (Ptui) steel shot. Since the stuff has the same ballistic co-efficient as popcorn or Rice Krispies, they went by the More Is Better Principle and now goose hunters will be able to cripple more geese further out. And, unless you're into pain, the big 3 1/2" job is NOT the best learning load. Trust me. BTW, the Novas run light, and I would need a very good reason before firing off a howitzer load in less than an 8 1/2 lb shotgun. There's a good reason 10 gauges run up to 12 lbs. And I'm no sissy. I've enjoyed firing a 375 H&H mag, have hunted with 45-70s, and love shooting slugs from my 870s. But, if I ever come up with a good reason for owning a 3 1/2" chambered shotgun, and shoot it with those long shells, Satan will have the chilblains...

January 27, 2002, 06:56 PM	#4
slick slidestop Senior Member Join Date: October 30, 2001 Location: Texas Posts: 394	It might help with Geese or Turkey, but I never had a problem in over 20 years shooting ducks with 2 3/4 out of a 20 guage, and then 2 3/4 out of my 12 guage.....as a matter of fact I have never shot 3" mags out of my 12 guage in the 15 years I have owned it. Then again, maybe my location and hunting circumstances don't require it and yours might

January 28, 2002, 08:02 PM	#6
43Rob Member Join Date: September 19, 2000 Posts: 26	I am new to the 3 1/2" but the stuff I am now reading says that the velocity is everything in waterfowl and some of the "waterfowl" 3 1/2" shoots slower that the same 3" especially with steel shot.

January 28, 2002, 08:40 PM	#7
Chuck Graber Member Join Date: August 22, 2001 Location: Kansas Posts: 74	FlyboyAZ, If you show up at almost any clay target range with 3-1/2" shells you wil probably be asked to leave. I don't know of any ranges that will even allow 3" shells, although I have seen some shooters sneak them onto the course. The best thing for knocking down any clay targets is 2-3/4" shells and the proper technique. Clay targets don't take a lot of energy to break and the standard 1-1/8oz. load can break clay targets out to a suprising distance if you do your job. Save your money on shells and buy a few more rounds of clays, trap or skeet, or even better find a pro and take some lessons. Chuck Graber

January 29, 2002, 12:35 AM	#8
labgrade Member In Memoriam Join Date: November 29, 1999 Location: west of a small town, CO Posts: 4,346	All good advice. I got wrapped in the "must have a 3" hype" & believe that, for me, has its merits for a bit longer range on turkeys. Other than that, It doesn't do me any good whatsoever. More expensive, harder boot to the shoulder & those 3" shells don't fit the rest of my 12 870s. (wah! & ) BTW, the 3" 12 I did buy was a 21" bbl turkey express, so it was a default 3" Glad I have it & it's used for 90% with 2-3/4" shells. A 20 gauge will do those tasks just as well. Where the 3-1/2" "shines" is with the steel waterfowl shells - it attempts to duplicate a 10 gauge. Added velocity is a "good thing" for steel as it doesn't have the ballistically superior density of lead & loses its umph quicker as a result. For clays, suggest 2-3/4" 1 -1-1/8oz in #7-1/2-8 as mentioned (#9s if you can find them). Only way to know what yours will do is to pattern. Buy a few different loadings & shoot with different chokes to see what yours will do. Stick with what you find that works. The harder shot tends to pattern better. For upland birds, 2-3/4" 1 - 1-1/8oz #7-1/2-8s for quail, etc. & #4-6 in 1 - 1-1/4oz for phesants/rabbits, etc. Imp cylinder for w/in 25 yards or so & modified for further. Steel will tend to pattern as full from a modified choke - but it all varies & YMMV. "Re-learning" shotguns after a long hiatus .... & guaranteed that there are 3" shells (the Active Penetrator's 3", 2-1/4oz of #4s, for example) will let you know you've touched one off! not to mention several other magnum varieties in this class. Can't imagine shooting skeet with any! ;( & (yes. i'm a puss .... )

January 29, 2002, 06:59 PM	#10
Chuck Graber Member Join Date: August 22, 2001 Location: Kansas Posts: 74	RAE, Every range that I have ever been to has their range rules posted and the max load at all of them is a 3 dram 1-1/8oz. load. I know that NSCA and NSSA also mandate this load as the maximum allowable load for competition. The reason is the range of shotfall. A range owner needs to be able to plan for the maximum shotfall area and be able to keep people out of unsafe areas. They also have a responsibility to keep shot from raining onto adjacent properties. I should point out that the ranges that I visit don't mind if you use magnum loads at their patterning boards as these are most often backed up by a bunker or berm. There is no chance of errant shot escaping here, but keep the magnum loads out of your gun on the clays course. Chuck Graber

January 29, 2002, 08:20 PM	#11
Hal Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Ohio USA Posts: 8,563	Chuck, Thanks for the info.

February 1, 2002, 05:09 AM	#13
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	3 1/2" 10 and 12 ga loads have similar velocity and energy numbers, MD. Where they differ is in the quality of the patterns. The 12 load pushes too much shot through too small a diameter bbl for best patterns.

February 2, 2002, 07:18 PM	#15
Hawkaaa53 Member Join Date: January 4, 2002 Location: Deep South Posts: 45	Hey FlyboyAZ , Talk to Dave about reducing the recoil of your NOVA ; to go out , with little practice , and shoot 4 rounds of clays is quite daring ( your shoulder to turn all sorts of less than pretty shades of blue 'n purple ) and it might work on your cheek as well . Next , get some "dummies" to put in your gun as you practice your mount , that may give you a more realistic feel . When you "cheek " that pump's stock ; it just might s(t)ock your cheek , Hawkaaa53