Accuracy problems with guns; long read, dilemma..

9mm · July 7, 2018, 07:58 PM

Back story of myself, I have been shooting for about 10 years now, I scored expert in the USN course with M9 239/240 points (missed first DA pull!) and M4 course expert too..

I have a Ruger Mark III with a bushnell red optic, as seen in the photos the groupings in the circles are mine expect for the head; the left is slow fire and the right is rapid fire. I shot this today at 10 yards, I swear this gun gets better with more ammo I shoot through it. I never really liked the Ruger Mark III based on its looks, it's a very accurate gun though and it grows on me each time I take it to the range....

The real problem is my other guns I own are not interesting to me much anymore expect for the looks and function.. They honestly aren't the most accurate and I feel like I am wasting my time shooting them for accuracy, they are just fun to play around with. I like 22lr revolvers a lot, I have a few others.

Ruger single six, not that accurate at 5-10 yards... I have close to 400 rounds through this gun and I am still playing with my sights.

S&W m17 4" the same thing, I played with it for a while today and couldn't get it to go point of aim. Same I shot at 5-10 yards.

Most of my shooting was at the 5 yard line and I put about 150-200 rounds through each today..

The sights would always be too high on all my guns.. I couldn't get them lowered enough. I felt like I was limited with the adjustment levels of these two guns.. I shot the m17 in single action to match the MK III trigger.. I know they are semi vs revolver..

Right now I have single ten coming and I am wondering if I should test it out then sell it if the accuracy isn't there.... I am wondering if I should stop buying guns and stick to buying another MK 3 or 4 and stop with my revolver fascination. Could the Ruger mark III/IV be one of the most accurate handguns ever made? Other things I did not consider was barrel size, the single six is 4.5 and the MKIII is about 4-5 inches it's the talo model with threaded barrel..

Second photo is the Ruger single six, target pretty much looks like thst with shots off target because I was adjusting so much, sorry, on phone and can't compress photos.

There has been several other revolvers on my wish list but I am rethinking my wishlist to improving it..

I hope that made sense.

Bill DeShivs · July 7, 2018, 10:55 PM

5 yards is not the best range to test accuracy OR adjust your sights.

9mm · July 7, 2018, 11:14 PM

This range is limited, what do you suggest I have for a minimum range distance?

kozak6 · July 7, 2018, 11:40 PM

Have you tried a variety of ammo types? Some guns are real particular about what they like.

9mm · July 7, 2018, 11:49 PM

I Have not, just using what I have on hand, federal 36 grain copper hp nose. I have some WWB and Rem golden I could try next.

1stmar · July 8, 2018, 03:21 AM

The target rings appear to be 1”? So the pistol w the red dot is about a 3” group and the others are 4-5” groups, is that about right? If so, no disrespect, have someone else shoot the guns. Someone you know is an accurate ahooter. Your credentials aside, i’d be surprised if all of those guns shot that poor at 5-10 yds. The red dot groups may be the best because you have a scope. A red dot you focus on the dot, effectively the target, iron sights you focus on the front sight. Be sure you are not focusing on the target.
Most of your groups have larger vertical dispersion with some low left, watch for flinching or shot anticipation. You should see the front sight lift off the target. Those guns, including the one w the red dot, ahould be capable of groups that size at 4-5x the distance you are shooting.
Are you shooting indoors?
The recommendation about trying other ammo is a good one. 22s can be very ammo specific. I have had good luck w aguila super target lead. Very accurate in my 22s and pretty inexpensive.

NoSecondBest · July 8, 2018, 08:47 AM

Get some quality ammo, shoot off a rest, and test the guns for accuracy at a minimum of 25 yards. No, the Rugers are not about the most accurate guns ever made. Not even close. They're built like a tank, reasonably "field" accurate, and are not really competitive at any type of distance shooting. Get outside and do some shooting at a distance that will let you know how accurate your guns are. Standard velocity target ammo is a good starting point for testing. Forget the cheap promo and high velocity stuff for accuracy.

DPris · July 8, 2018, 11:59 AM

5 yards tells you nothing about the accuracy of a handgun.
25 yards is the benchmark.
Denis

buck460XVR · July 8, 2018, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DPris

5 yards tells you nothing about the accuracy of a handgun.
25 yards is the benchmark.
Denis

...and IMHO, 40 will give you a much better picture of accuracy. What I have seen so many times is folks practice/shoot at 5-7 yards, basically, Point Blank range. They tend to not aim as much as just pointing the gun at the center of the target, as opposed to aiming at a particular spot on the target. Not only does this tend to affect accuracy, but it also affects trigger discipline. I always suggest folks shoot at a distance farther than they feel comfortable at(especially if that distance is 15 yards or less) and try to use a target that makes them aim at something other than the center.

...and remember, front sight, front sight, front sight......

9mm · July 8, 2018, 05:56 PM

Hmm, maybe I should stop going to this range as its maxed out around 10 yards. The range I used to go to is an indoor 25 yard I could try over plus they allow rifle and shotguns. It's a longer drive but would be worth it... I really want to go to the outdoor one but its about $20 an hour and almost an hour and a half away. I will pick up some other brands of ammo also, thank you all for the help.

Hilltop Shooter · July 9, 2018, 02:58 PM

The range to rest at will be a huge debate and I consider it to be subjective. The best range to sight in and test depends on what range you will mostly be using the gun at. I can't tell you and you can't tell me the definitive range to sight in. That's up to the shooter and their skills.

The one huge variable I read was you only used one type of ammo. "There's your problem" lol

Every gun has a particular load it likes best depending on several things that affect harmonics and what not. 2 identical Ruger single 6's may not, and most likely will not like the same load the best. For every gun you test, try several different brands of ammo with different bullet wts, preferably off the bench or randsom rest, and find it's pet load. Then you can have honest data to judge the gun by.

Bill DeShivs · July 9, 2018, 04:58 PM

The range is not subjective at all.
At point-blank range all the bullets will go through the same hole. At 15 yards they will have spread out a little. At 25 they will have spread quite a bit further.

9mm · July 9, 2018, 05:27 PM

@Hilltop
Yes, for years I have stuck with federal 550 bulk 22 from Walmart. I did buy some federal lead nose 325 value packs, Winchester black box 22, 1 Remington golden box. CCI 40 grain 325 bulk. I just mainly shoot the federal bricks because they are the most common and I have used them for years with very little problems; 1-5 FTF a box but with a revolver 80% ratio of second strike.

I need to gather 100+ rounds from each box for each gun then compare my results.

July 7, 2018, 10:55 PM	#2
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,985	5 yards is not the best range to test accuracy OR adjust your sights. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

July 8, 2018, 03:21 AM	#6
1stmar Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,378	The target rings appear to be 1”? So the pistol w the red dot is about a 3” group and the others are 4-5” groups, is that about right? If so, no disrespect, have someone else shoot the guns. Someone you know is an accurate ahooter. Your credentials aside, i’d be surprised if all of those guns shot that poor at 5-10 yds. The red dot groups may be the best because you have a scope. A red dot you focus on the dot, effectively the target, iron sights you focus on the front sight. Be sure you are not focusing on the target. Most of your groups have larger vertical dispersion with some low left, watch for flinching or shot anticipation. You should see the front sight lift off the target. Those guns, including the one w the red dot, ahould be capable of groups that size at 4-5x the distance you are shooting. Are you shooting indoors? The recommendation about trying other ammo is a good one. 22s can be very ammo specific. I have had good luck w aguila super target lead. Very accurate in my 22s and pretty inexpensive. Last edited by 1stmar; July 8, 2018 at 03:38 AM.

July 9, 2018, 02:58 PM	#11
Hilltop Shooter Member Join Date: June 30, 2017 Location: SW TN Posts: 28	The range to rest at will be a huge debate and I consider it to be subjective. The best range to sight in and test depends on what range you will mostly be using the gun at. I can't tell you and you can't tell me the definitive range to sight in. That's up to the shooter and their skills. The one huge variable I read was you only used one type of ammo. "There's your problem" lol Every gun has a particular load it likes best depending on several things that affect harmonics and what not. 2 identical Ruger single 6's may not, and most likely will not like the same load the best. For every gun you test, try several different brands of ammo with different bullet wts, preferably off the bench or randsom rest, and find it's pet load. Then you can have honest data to judge the gun by. __________________ "Show me a man that dont pet his dog or take his lady fishing and ill show you a man that can take both of em" Amos Moses

July 9, 2018, 04:58 PM	#12
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,985	The range is not subjective at all. At point-blank range all the bullets will go through the same hole. At 15 yards they will have spread out a little. At 25 they will have spread quite a bit further. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

July 7, 2018, 11:14 PM	#3
9mm Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2011 Location: Land of the Free Posts: 2,834	This range is limited, what do you suggest I have for a minimum range distance?

July 7, 2018, 11:40 PM	#4
kozak6 Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 3,113	Have you tried a variety of ammo types? Some guns are real particular about what they like.

July 7, 2018, 11:49 PM	#5
9mm Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2011 Location: Land of the Free Posts: 2,834	I Have not, just using what I have on hand, federal 36 grain copper hp nose. I have some WWB and Rem golden I could try next.

July 8, 2018, 08:47 AM	#7
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	Get some quality ammo, shoot off a rest, and test the guns for accuracy at a minimum of 25 yards. No, the Rugers are not about the most accurate guns ever made. Not even close. They're built like a tank, reasonably "field" accurate, and are not really competitive at any type of distance shooting. Get outside and do some shooting at a distance that will let you know how accurate your guns are. Standard velocity target ammo is a good starting point for testing. Forget the cheap promo and high velocity stuff for accuracy.

July 8, 2018, 11:59 AM	#8
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	5 yards tells you nothing about the accuracy of a handgun. 25 yards is the benchmark. Denis

July 8, 2018, 05:56 PM	#10
9mm Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2011 Location: Land of the Free Posts: 2,834	Hmm, maybe I should stop going to this range as its maxed out around 10 yards. The range I used to go to is an indoor 25 yard I could try over plus they allow rifle and shotguns. It's a longer drive but would be worth it... I really want to go to the outdoor one but its about $20 an hour and almost an hour and a half away. I will pick up some other brands of ammo also, thank you all for the help.

July 9, 2018, 05:27 PM	#13
9mm Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2011 Location: Land of the Free Posts: 2,834	@Hilltop Yes, for years I have stuck with federal 550 bulk 22 from Walmart. I did buy some federal lead nose 325 value packs, Winchester black box 22, 1 Remington golden box. CCI 40 grain 325 bulk. I just mainly shoot the federal bricks because they are the most common and I have used them for years with very little problems; 1-5 FTF a box but with a revolver 80% ratio of second strike. I need to gather 100+ rounds from each box for each gun then compare my results.