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July 22, 2018, 03:08 PM | #1 |
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Custom Mauser With a Busted Bolt Lug
So a while back I bought a custom Mauser done by J.S. Darrow, chambered in 7mm Rem Mag. Never did anything with it, just stuck it in the safe. Today I was cleaning it up and noticed what looked like a crack at the base of the right side locking lug. Pivot the extractor out of the way and I'll be damned if the whole lug didn't fall right off! Not sure how I missed that when I bought it... Oh well. I'm basically wondering if I have to replace the entire bolt or if the head can be swapped out? I'd like to keep the bolt body if possible, what with the butter knife handle and jewelling.
ETA: The shop I bought the rifle from took it back without a hassle. I swapped it for an Oberndorf sporter, you can check it out in the bolt action forum if you like. Last edited by Bigfatts; July 25, 2018 at 02:32 PM. |
July 22, 2018, 03:23 PM | #2 |
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Warning:
At issue though is anything that will crack a bolt head like that is severe over pressure (possible its induced by the bolt work and only that) I would approach this very cautiously. Don't despair, its a really nice looking setup. But this is the canary in the mine dying. Maybe its an old canary and ok, but make very very very sure. Its a one piece bolt, so no, there is no repair. Also if the lug recesses are wrong (one side taking all the pressure) the receiver is toast . Its going to take a good gun smith to evaluate this. If I was there in person I would say the same thing. Bore scope and gauges to check it all and maybe a magnu flux.
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Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not Last edited by RC20; July 22, 2018 at 03:29 PM. |
July 22, 2018, 03:42 PM | #3 |
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Thanks for the response. I was afraid of that. I'm going to have to locate a good smith. All the ones I knew have closed up shop- I've been out of the game for a while. Last one I dealt with was DOW in Dade City, FL. But I don't even know if he's still in business.
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July 22, 2018, 07:59 PM | #4 |
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Based on the fact that the crack began at the base of the recoil lug...It would be safe to assume the worst. It's unfortunate when bad 'smithing takes its toll on fine examples of firearms such as yours. I recently bought a Remington Model 30S that was chambered in .257 Weatherby Magnum, in which some bonehead tried drilling into a stuck case and ended up cutting into the side of the chamber wall, rendering it a useless wallhanger, unless rebarreled. As RC20 speculated, the lug recesses could be wrong. Although, I'd imagine if there is only one load bearing lug inside your receiver, depending on how off center the lug surfaces are, it could be possible to go the route of re-truing the lug recesses and turning the barrel in to make up the headspace loss. But...that's just a solution to a couple "ifs". I would no doubt have it checked out by a competent smith and weigh your options as they come.
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July 22, 2018, 08:28 PM | #5 |
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It's dead, Bigfatts, it's dead.
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July 22, 2018, 09:59 PM | #6 |
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The bolt is done. At the very least you'll need a new one.
But at the pressures required to shear off a locking lug like that, I'm also worried about receiver stretching and the locking lug recess surfaces. If it's been fired like that, it could be distributing uneven pressure at levels the recesses weren't intended to hold. Who knows if the recesses are warped or cracked themselves. Complete gunsmith inspection is the only way to go if you're even thinking about salvaging it.
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July 22, 2018, 10:38 PM | #7 |
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Thanks guys, I'm going to go see a local smith next weekend and see what he has to say. Keeping my fingers crossed, I really love this rifle.
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July 23, 2018, 09:05 AM | #8 |
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OK, here's is a tip.
The bolt is history, but if the abutments of the receiver have been set back by an over pressure round, or if the standard pressure of a 7 mag is too high because of the receiver not being heat-treated right, you can still find out. You see, the receiver is softer then the bolt (or it should be) so if the bolt lug was broken off due to high pressure you can check the headspace with a gauge on even one lug. Please do that before you do anything else. If the headspace is OK the lug didn't break off because of pressure that was too high. The receiver will "give" more then the bolt. It broke off because someone tried to do a heat treatment on it and didn't do it correctly. They made it brittle with their quench and didn't temper it correctly, or at all. If that's the case you still need a new bolt, but it's good news in that the receiver is ok, and you can restore you rifle without much of a problem. |
July 23, 2018, 09:41 AM | #9 |
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I have 3 Mauser bolts that have been rendered scrap. The lugs on one lug have been sheared off, one of the bolts has one lug with a major crack and the other has two cracks, one for each lug.
Two of the bolts have been opened up to belted magnum size. Two of the bolts have been traced back to Santa Fe/National Arms. All three bolts were magnificent in appearance. And then there is the third lug, F. Guffey |
July 23, 2018, 09:45 AM | #10 | |
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Quote:
F. Guffey |
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July 23, 2018, 09:48 AM | #11 | |
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Quote:
F. Guffey |
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July 23, 2018, 11:08 AM | #12 |
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At this time , I wouldn't trust it. Magna-flux would check for other cracks but there may be other problems .
You could save the bolt handle but otherwise I wouldn't trust it . I base my comments on the fact that I am a metallurgist, been to gunsmith school and a life long shooter.
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July 23, 2018, 06:16 PM | #13 |
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I think that bolt is dead. I’d never trust it again, no matter what fix was applied. If another bolt can be had, I’d go with that, but have the action looked over and tested every possible way. And probably I’d just leave it in the safe.
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July 23, 2018, 06:35 PM | #14 |
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Well, I have news. I happened into the shop the rifle came from and mentioned it. They said bring it back, no questions asked. So I did. It is a beautiful rifle, but the unknowns are dangerous and expensive to identify. With what I learned here from you knowledgable folks, I don't think I would have ever been able to enjoy it. And I'd rather not take chances with my face and a romper-stomper round like that. As much as I wanted that rifle, it just wasn't meant to be. Thank you all for the information.
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July 23, 2018, 06:46 PM | #15 |
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Actually
That's actually great news, I could not trust the gun again without spending a lot for testing and repairs. And then it would still be in the back of your mind.
No worries, there shall be another.
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July 23, 2018, 08:26 PM | #16 |
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Sadder than it even appears.
Judson Darrow was an established gunsmith in 1950 and continued in business perhaps into the 1970s when he passed away. Best known for single shots, he did other bolt actions too. He just put together a rifle with a built in overload. Combine the larger case diameter and higher chamber pressure of 7mm RM vs say 8x57 and bolt thrust was about 30% greater than stock. Equivalent to firing a proof load every shot. It wouldn't take much in the way of a brittle bolt and/or soft or uneven receiver to fail. People, even gunsmiths, paid less attention to such stuff in those days, gunzines had monthly articles about short magnums in surplus actions. |
July 23, 2018, 09:25 PM | #17 |
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I agree, it is a real pity. The rifle was gorgeous and it would have been a proud addition to my meager collection. But I guess some things just aren't meant to be.
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July 23, 2018, 11:11 PM | #18 |
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Get a new bolt. Old handle can be removed and rewelded onto newer bolt.
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July 25, 2018, 06:15 AM | #19 |
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Better figure out WHY the bolt lug cracked. Maybe uneven wear in the bolt recesses.
FWIW you're LUCKY you didn't end up with the bolt sticking out the side of your head. |
July 25, 2018, 01:42 PM | #20 | |
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Quote:
I tend to think I am lucky when I go to sleep at the end of the day and many things have not happened to me that could have.
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Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not Last edited by JohnKSa; August 15, 2018 at 10:50 PM. Reason: . |
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August 15, 2018, 11:38 AM | #21 | |
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My only problem is Tuesday is my best day and he's only open Wednesday to Saturday. Jeff Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk |
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August 16, 2018, 02:28 AM | #22 |
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The rifle is gone? Was it possible to figure out who made the action? Could that rifle started as a German made sporter. The hardware and triggers make the rifle look like it started life one way and had been modified and rebarreled. I think would be wise to check out the lug seats. Any clues?
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August 17, 2018, 10:43 AM | #23 | |
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Quote:
I ask why did I save the bolt bodies from the 3 busted bolts? I said nothing about the sky falling or the trauma caused by a laying my head next to the rifle when firing. We had a member that was demanding attention and demeaning other members for the effort or lack of effort. And I marvel at the genius Paul Mauser. He developed the third safety lug. Not a problem for me but he cleverly installed it out of sight. I have never found a Mauser 98 that had the third safety lug supporting the bolt meaning the 2 front lugs did not contact the receiver. I can determine the clearance with a bolt that has the front lugs removed; and of course there are other methods and or techniques. Fact or fiction: Response to the cracked and or sheared lugs do not indicate catastrophic failure, For reloaders that are expert on the Mauser should understand the broken bolt and or sheared lugs will not put the bolt into the face of the shooter. There is a chance the case will not suffer case head separation; case head separation is not considered catastrophic failure. I knew when I started no one on this forum would know how much clearance the third had. And then, there is always "and then" there are catastrophic failures. meaning the shooter will have other problems that could include cracked and or sheared bolt lugs. When that happen the gas escape system gets involved. And then many years ago the 03 experts got belligerent; Springfield designed the 03 with a third lug (I know, Springfield insisted they never saw a 98 Mauser), I was impressed with the Springfield third lug. The 3 Lug stuck out on the right rear side of the receiver ahead of the rear receiver ring. No one noticed but I found I could measure the difference between the rear lug making contact after the front lugs made contact. And then I noticed when checking the length of the chamber from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face all that was required was a feeler gage. It was about that time the 03 experts got belligerent; their thinking? If it was that easy and simple why didn't Hatcher notice. After that the experts insisted it was necessary to strip the bolt; I could not understand why; if they were experts they did not have test bolts. I am not the expert but I do have 30+ Springfield bolts and I have test bolts, strange looking creatures. They were made from unfinished HO bolts. F. Guffey Last edited by F. Guffey; August 18, 2018 at 09:39 AM. Reason: change r to t and f to r |
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August 19, 2018, 07:01 AM | #24 |
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Helluva response to a signature line.
Maybe we could all stop trying to find ways to be offended.
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