Aguila Standard Velocity in Ruger .22 Pistols

[MoscowMike]

I have several Ruger rimfires, and the .22 drought has been frustrating.

When one of the online retailers had Aguila Super Extra Lead Standard Velocity for .07 per round shipped if I bought a case, I went for it. Aguila seems to have a decent reputation around the net.

As far as accuracy goes, it's better than I am, but I'm having feeding issues. The 22/45 often fails to pick up the second or third round in a magazine, sometimes stovepipes or catches the cartridge at an angle coming out of the magazine.

My old Standard Model that I used to shoot bullseye with (back when I had less money and better eyes) is somewhat less finicky, but has similar issues. The 10/22 sometimes fails to feed, but I haven't shot it much with this ammo.

I thoroughly cleaned both pistols and still have the same problems.

Both pistols only seem to have problems with the first half of the magazine. If I only load with five, no problems, so I assume it's a combination of drag on the bolt from a fully-loaded magazine, the weight of the bolt and the recoil spring.

I got a new recoil spring from Ruger, removed the springs from the two pistols, and using a digital scale compared their strength. Pressing down on the spring showed the old Standard Model was about 4-5#, the well-used 22/45 a bit over 5# and the new spring almost 6#. Hardly a precise way of measuring, but it gave me an idea of the relative strength.

Swapping the lightest spring into the 22/45 didn't improve the FTF issue. I'm not sure if cutting coils off the spring will help, and how light I dare go, but I have a case of ammo to use, so would like to find a work around.

Anyone else found a way to get any of these firearms to be more comfortable with Aquila Super Extra Standard Velocity? Am I stuck loading with five rounds?

I saw a reference to modifying the 10/22 to be happier with standard velocity and will have to chase that down.

[Mike38]

Is the ammo Aguila subsonic 1025fps or standard velocity 1130fps? The 1130 should work in both pistols, and the 1025 may be problematic, although it worked perfectly in my Baikal IZH35M pistol. I found it to be very accurate by the way.

[T. O'Heir]

"...having feeding issues..." One of the reasons you must try a box of as many brands as you can to find the ammo your firearms both shoot well and cycle the action. The cost of the ammo means nothing either. And never buy anything in bulk until you have tried one box.
Some semi's, be they rifle or pistols, just won't work well with some brands while they will another.
Really daft part is that one Ruger 22/45 or 10/22 will shoot Aguila Standard Velocity while another just will not.
So don't ever cut springs. Change ammo.

[MoscowMike]

It's not the subsonic.

From what I have seen Aguila plainly marks subsonic, and these boxes say .22 Super Extra Standard Velocity 40 Grains Lead Bullet Eley Prime.

I don't have a chronograph so I can't say what they are doing out of my pistols.

Target Sports says 1085 fps

http://www.targetsportsusa.com/aguil...32-p-3435.aspx

[T. O'Heir]

"...what they are doing out of my pistols..." Really doesn't matter. Velocity doesn't alter a feeding issue.

[rt11002003]

I bought 5,000 rounds of the Aquila std. velocity, round nose with the uncoated lead bullet. Have been shooting it in five different Rugers, a Hammerli Xesse Sport and a Auschutz rifle. Never a problem, very accurate ammo. Then, I was shooting a S&W Model 41 and had the problems OP had. Switched to Aquila High Velocity Copper Clad round nose and had no further problems.

I couldn't see in OP's post if the rounds were HP, or RN. My shooting buddy has been shooting Armscor HP .22lr ammo experiencing the same problems OP had. It seems the Armscor HP's are not completely smooth, they neck down. At the point where they neck down, they catch sometimes and refuse to feed.

[MoscowMike]

I couldn't see in OP's post if the rounds were HP, or RN

These are standard round nose.

Target Sports Aguila Super Extra Lead

[Olympus]

I shoot thousands of rounds of that ammo have never had a problem. I do not have a 22/45, but I do have a Mark 2 and an SR-22 and both guns eat them like candy. You might look at trying a different magazine.

[MoscowMike]

Olympus -

I have tried four magazines for the 22/45 and two for the Standard model. I should clean all of them out before I try again, but - it's not just one.

Good to hear that you have been pleased. Makes me believe that I should be able to find a way to make this work.

[Snyper]

Velocity doesn't alter a feeding issue.

It can with a blow back action such as these 22's

So don't ever cut springs. Change ammo.

That was easy to do years ago.
Now many are being forced to use what they can find or pay outrageous prices if they want to continue shooting.

[rep1954]

https://www.volquartsen.com/inventor...igurations/764

https://www.volquartsen.com/inventor...gurations/1086

[rt11002003]

MoscowMike, I went to my storage closet and pulled a box of the Aquila ammo you wrote about. Those rounds are similar to the Armsco rounds; in that the lead projectile is stepped down.

As mentioned in my previous post, my shooting buddy had/has a feeding problem with projectiles that are shaped with that stepped down ridge. The ridge catches. His cure was careful shaping of the feed ramp.

Just another avenue to explore.

I only found about four boxes of the standard velocity Aquila ammo in the closet. So I must have used almost all of the 5,000 rounds with the only issue being with my S&W Model 41. The standard load wouldn't recycle the slide. Works fine with Aquila Super Extra High Velocity.

[MoscowMike]

rt11002003 - Bullet shape may be an issue, but it wouldn't account for the failure to pick up a new round or the stovepiping.

rep1954 - The spring kit looks like a good idea. I'm not wild about having to fit the correct spring for the ammo I'm using but it sounds like it might work. It would be interesting to compare the springs in that kit to the three (new, worn and well worn) that I have.

I have thinking about a different direction. Both guns function well with only five rounds loaded in the magazines. I believe the extra friction caused by the cartridge rubbing on the bolt when the spring is more compressed is just enough to slow it down to the point where it has problems.

So how can I fix that? A little oil on the top couple of cartridges might reduce the friction enough, but is sort of a pain. I just polished the bottom of the bolt, but that was already pretty slick.

There is a solution for this issue on the 10/22. On rimfire central you can see the sticky on chamfering the bolt.

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=251031

When the bolt on the 10/22 (or my two pistols) comes back, it strikes the hammer and pushes it into the cocked position. If you think of the hammer as a lever, where you hit affects how easy it is to move it. Just like a wrench, if you hold it close to the nut you are turning, it requires more force than if you move your hand farther towards the other end.

Chamfering the bolt on the 10/22 moves the spot where it initially strikes the hammer farther away from the pivot point, so it requires less effort to cock the hammer.

I wonder if you could do something similar on the pistol bolt. Looking at it, the spot where it strikes the hammer when coming back (right below the firing pin) is just slightly rounded. If you were to carefully take that down a bit at a time, testing as you went, you would move the initial strike point up on the hammer, likely increasing the efficiency of the bolt stroke.

Unfortunately it's harder to get at than the 10/22 bolt, but a skinny rubber polishing wheel on a Dremel, if used carefully, should work. As this is just the beginning of the stroke it won't affect bringing the hammer down to the cocked position, and I'm not talking about getting close to the firing pin.

I was hoping someone would have an easier solution, and I don't know if this would work, so I'm going to do more thinking first. A new bolt on ebay is running $90, so if I were to screw things up badly I could start over without breaking the bank.

[zukiphile]

It can with a blow back action such as these 22's

rt11002003 - Bullet shape may be an issue, but it wouldn't account for the failure to pick up a new round or the stovepiping.

I like several different sorts of Aguila .22, but Standard Velocity isn't one of them. I think the issue is not velocity, but acceleration.

MoscowMike, my 10/22s don't feed Aguila SV well unless I replace the recoil spring with a weaker spring. Those same rifles all cycle Aguila subsonic reliably. The problem with SV, notwithstanding the muzzle velocity from a 20 inch rifle barrel, is that the impulse imparted to the bolt is weaker than the impulse imparted by their subsonic.

My guess, only a guess, is that the problem with SV is that it uses a slower burning powder than the subsonic, and that the subsonic uses a quicker powder for a short quick shove with all the burning done well before other powders stop burning.

[kenny53]

The only Aguila I have tired is the sub sonic. Not too good in semi's but works like a champ in bolt and lever action.

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by MoscowMike

I should clean all of [the magazines] out before I try again, but - it's not just one.

I think it's the magazines.

The angle of the bullets in the magazine tends to shove the noses of the top rounds forward against the mag body. This problem is worse with sticky non-lubricated unplated RN lead bullets like the ones Aguila uses in their basic SV loading, and is most acute when the magazine is relatively full because there are more bullets and thus more drag.

I recommend purchasing this essential Ruger Mk-series cleaning accessory (6" cotton swabs with stiff wooden handles). Lock the follower down with an HKS or equivalent speedloader, soak the swabs with favorite gun cleaning fluid, clean the inner front mag body really well, and dry thoroughly with a clean swab. This is MUCH easier than removing the baseplates and having to control the stupid "torpedo" spring-retainer thingy. You can thank me later.

[rt11002003]

I've gotten lost in this discussion. My understanding is that the force generated by the burning powder is expanded moving the projectile forward and the case rearward. Given the same gun, changing ammo from standard to high velocity ( leaving the projectile weight alone) should result in moving the projectile faster (more force) and slide/bolt faster (more force).

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by rt11002003

My understanding is that the force generated by the burning powder is expanded moving the projectile forward and the case rearward. Given the same gun, changing ammo from standard to high velocity ( leaving the projectile weight alone) should result in moving the projectile faster (more force) and slide/bolt faster (more force).

That is correct.

Generally speaking, if a .22LR autoloader is rated by the manufacturer to handle HV ammo (which goes for almost all of them nowadays), HV ammo will cycle the gun with more authority, although there are other factors to consider, such as the power levels of individual loads and whether the bullets are plated or heavily lubricated. Plating or lubrication helps reduce friction during feeding.

[zukiphile]

My understanding is that the force generated by the burning powder is expanded moving the projectile forward and the case rearward. Given the same gun, changing ammo from standard to high velocity ( leaving the projectile weight alone) should result in moving the projectile faster (more force) and slide/bolt faster (more force).

That's essentially correct, but bullet velocity is a measure of speed which you get from acceleration. How quickly that acceleration occurs will influence whether the weight and spring tension of the bolt and hammer spring can be overcome.

Imagine a 40gr bullet accelerating to 1100 fps in a five foot long barrel with a very slow burning powder. The light force sufficient for slow acceleration might not overcome the weight and spring tension at all. Like a car getting to highway speed very slowly on a very long ramp, the passengers might not be jostled much at all.

Imagine a 40gr bullet accelerating to 1050 fps in a 16 inch long barrel with a powder that burns in the first few inches. The bullet might glide out of the muzzle at 1050, but the initial force needed to get it going in the short distance would be enough to overcome the bolt weight and hammer spring tension, and could give reliable cycling. Like a car that gets up to 60mph in just a hundred feet, the acceleration would be unsettling to a passenger.


But if you don't want to read all that, just try what you can get your hands on and see what gives satisfactory accuracy and function.

[saleen322]

Shot Aguila Match Pistol, standard velocity for years in pistol matches. The Rugers had no problems so long as the chamber was clean and the slide lubricated. Any stoppage would create an alibi situation where you had to fire extra rounds and score the lowest 10 on the target-not helpful for good scores. You could not tolerate ammo problems and SV was no problem.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by MoscowMike

Chamfering the bolt on the 10/22 moves the spot where it initially strikes the hammer farther away from the pivot point, so it requires less effort to cock the hammer.

I wonder if you could do something similar on the pistol bolt. Looking at it, the spot where it strikes the hammer when coming back (right below the firing pin) is just slightly rounded. If you were to carefully take that down a bit at a time, testing as you went, you would move the initial strike point up on the hammer, likely increasing the efficiency of the bolt stroke.

Clipping one coil off a used recoil spring is a lot easier and MUCH more reversible than trying to chamfer the bolt. Plus doing the spring then allows you to put the standard spring in for when you have the correct ammo. You're not likely to keep a spare bolt around, are you?

[Lavan]

My MkII Ruger with short 4.5" bbl does not like truncated bullets like Winchester. Feeds MOST of the time but not EVERY time.



CCI Standard Velocity runs it just swell.

As do most other RN bullets.
Even the MOSTLY round ones have an ...occasional... glitch.

Fully rounded..... slick!

[MoscowMike]

I decided to try a couple of things. If I were serious about the scientific method I should have tried one at a time to see what the results were, but I'm too lazy for that.

On both pistols I used a Dremel rubber polishing wheel and lightly rounded the ledge on the bolt which strikes the hammer as it comes back. I also polished the section of the bolt where the recoil spring slides and the face of the hammer. Lightly polished the feed ramp, and cleaned a couple of the magazines.

I have three recoil springs, one new, one from the 22/45 which is a bit looser, and one from the old standard model which seems to be the lightest of the three. Put the new spring in the 22/45 and left the lightest spring in the standard model.

At the range, the 22/45 seemed to have the same problems with the Aguila standard velocity. Switching to Federal bulk high velocity it worked fine.

In the old standard model the Aguila worked fine with the cleaned magazine, but a dirty one had some issues.

I swapped springs, so the 22/45 had the lightest and the standard model had the heaviest. Most of the problems with the 22/45 went away, with one cleaned magazine having a failure to feed on the second round.

The standard model, now with the heaviest spring, still worked fine with the clean mag and had one failure to feed with the dirty one.

So - it seems to be a combination of factors. The 22/45 likes a lighter spring, the standard model isn't as fussy. I'll do a bit more rounding on the bolts for both of them, clean out the other magazines and see what happens.

I doubt if North Idaho will see any more sunny 60 degree days this year (it's been a surprising fall), but even if the weather isn't as nice another day at the range will be fun.

[carguychris]

Originally Posted by MoscowMike

...the 22/45 seemed to have the same problems with the Aguila standard velocity. Switching to Federal bulk high velocity it worked fine.

I have another theory.

Does the feeding problem consist of stovepipes and/or fired cases wedged in the ejection port, OR does the pistol fail to go completely into battery?

IF it's the latter, perhaps your 22/45 has a tight chamber. Aguila SV bullets run large; I know this because I have problems using them in my S&W M18 revolver, which has tight chambers. (Vintage .22LR Smith revolvers categorically do.) This is compounded by the fact that Aguila ammo tends to shoot dirty, so the chamber gets dirty faster.

Federal bulk pack has small bullets and is easy to use in my M18.