The Last Frontier!

TemboTusk · August 7, 2013, 11:47 PM

Found an interesting government sign while traveling in Alaska recently.

Truly our last frontier!

Bill Akins · August 8, 2013, 01:02 AM

It has to be either a first or second model dragoon, because of the squareback trigger guard, half round barrel, loading lever catch, and overall shape. But I can't tell which one because I can't see the bolt stop cuts on the cylinder because of the red diagonal line in the circle covering them.

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Hawg · August 8, 2013, 04:23 AM

Quote:

It has to be either a first or second model dragoon, because of the squareback trigger guard, half round barrel, loading lever catch, and overall shape. But I can't tell which one because I can't see the bolt stop cuts on the cylinder.

What difference does it make which model it is? The pic is hilarious.

Bill Akins · August 8, 2013, 05:04 AM

It kinda does make a difference Hawg. The difference between a "FIREARM" under the NFA, and "other dangerous weapon", which a BP revolver would be since it isn't legally a "FIREARM" under the NFA. I didn't find it hilarious, but found it interesting just as the OP did.

I can also understand the thinking behind using that dragoon in the sign.
Whoever did that, certainly knew their NFA law. They wanted to make sure that everyone knew that a "FIREARM" was prohibited from being inside a federal building, and also wanted to make sure people knew that any "other dangerous weapon", that wasn't necessarily legally under the NFA a "FIREARM" was also prohibited from being in the building as well. That's obviously why they used the BP revolver in the sign.

What I just described, I took in without mentioning it in my previous post, because I understood why they used it, I guess I didn't figure other people here wouldn't likewise realize what I did. The thing I found interesting if not unusual, was someone in the government actually understanding the NFA and applying it in a visual sign hoping people would understand that BP revolvers are legally "weapons" but are not legally "firearms" under the NFA, and was obviously trying to inform people that just because a BP revolver is not a "firearm", it is still considered a "dangerous weapon".

Not that I agree with the unconstitutional NFA, it's just that I am surprised that some federal bureaucrat would be that astute on the NFA law. That's what was interesting and unusual to me about it. But I thought others here would get that too, so I didn't mention it and only mentioned that it was either a 1st or 2nd model dragoon but couldn't tell which because the bolt stop cylinder cuts were covered up by the diagonal red line.

Does that answer your question of "What difference does it make which model it is?" and explain why I wrote what I wrote in my previous post Hawg?

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bedbugbilly · August 8, 2013, 06:14 AM

The OP doesn't state whether this is a "state" or a "Federal" sigh . . .

Sorry . . . but I think it just represents the stupidity of some government official or employee . . . whether it be a "state" or "Federal" employee . . . . sometimes there isn't much difference in the "stupidity" . . . who like most "governmental people" have no problem in lumping everything together rather than looking at things on an individual basis . . . thus "a gun is a gun".

Of course this reflects on all of us since we are the government . . . a "government of the people, by the people and for the people" . . .or are we?

Doc Hoy · August 8, 2013, 06:20 AM

...So I worked for the government for 26 years.

Can somebody please tell me what is wrong with the plaque?

;o)

mykeal · August 8, 2013, 08:57 AM

Well, other than the overall issue of requiring a law-abiding citizen to be defenseless against criminals who will simply ignore the sign while in the facility, there's nothing really wrong with the sign. There is, of course, the irony of depicting a cap and ball revolver, an "antique firearm" under 18 USC 921, and thus a "non-firearm".

As Mr. Akins explains. Somewhere....I think.

That simply has to be a joke. Its too funny not to be.

TemboTusk · August 8, 2013, 09:51 AM

The sign was found in Skagway posted outside a public restroom.

I found it both interesting and funny that a cap & ball revolver would be used on the sign as opposed to a more traditional modern hand gun.

Alaska did not feel like a "nanny" state, but more rough and ready. Very refreshing and maybe the sign reflects that.

**4V50 Gary** · August 8, 2013, 10:32 AM

Outside a public restroom in Skagway? It's not like the potty would be a place for a shootout.

mykeal · August 8, 2013, 11:23 AM

Perhaps it was inspired by "Unforgiven"....

noelf2 · August 8, 2013, 02:02 PM

Quote:

They wanted to make sure that everyone knew that a "FIREARM" was prohibited from being inside a federal building, and also wanted to make sure people knew that any "other dangerous weapon", that wasn't necessarily legally under the NFA a "FIREARM" was also prohibited

Just playing devil's advocate here, but, that's kind of like having a sign saying "Keep Dogs Off The Lawn", but showing a no-cats picture so everyone is aware that any pets that poop in yards are prohibited.

TemboTusk · August 8, 2013, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Outside a public restroom in Skagway? It's not like the potty would be a place for a shootout.

The restroom was part of a larger building housing a visitor’s center of sorts. The sign just happened to be right outside the restroom doors and did not appear to be a meant in jest. As stated earlier; interesting choice of weapon for a government sign.

In response to Bill's question about the Dragoon's model and upon closer inspection of my photograph; the notch in the cylinder appears to be rectangular.

Hawg · August 8, 2013, 07:29 PM

Well Bill, its black powder/percussion. It doesn't make a hill of beans difference what model it is.

Bill Akins · August 8, 2013, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Bedbugbilly wrote:
The OP doesn't state whether this is a "state" or a "Federal" sign.
Sorry . . . but I think it just represents the stupidity of some government official or employee . . . whether it be a "state" or "Federal" employee . . . . sometimes there isn't much difference in the "stupidity" . . . who like most "governmental people" have no problem in lumping everything together rather than looking at things on an individual basis . . . thus "a gun is a gun".

The sign says: "...in this Federal facility". Since it is a Federal facility, that would be built with Federal funds, it goes without saying it must be a Federal sign.

You might be right BBB, it could just be the ignorance of someone lumping all "guns" into one category whether they are legally a "FIREARM" or not, or...it could be someone (or a team group effort) who very intelligently knows the NFA law, and checked this all out with their supervisor, and his supervisor's...supervisor,....before the finalized format for the sign was approved. It's either ignorance or very astute NFA awareness. It has to be one or the other and we don't really know which! Lol. I know the government is notorious for doing ignorant and stupid things, but I also make it a habit to never underestimate my enemies (govt anti-2nd amendment, anti-gunners). So I'll personally err on the side of caution and "give the tie to the runner" (so to speak) and assume they knew what they were doing.

Just like I know the U.N. knew EXACTLY what they were doing (and telegraphing) when they had that statue of a CIVILIAN, non military Colt Python with a knot tied in its barrel erected outside the U.N. building in Wash D.C. While at the same time the U.N. and Obama try to convince (lie) us that the U.N. disarmament treaty is only about military and nuclear weapons and won't affect our CIVILIAN arms,....even though the wording of the treaty specifically orders all governments to establish a civilian firearms registry as a prelude to total confiscation, and even though the U.N. has made it clear it wants to take away all civilian arms.....even with the clear message of its tied barrel Colt python statue. So yes, even though the govt does stupid ignorant things sometimes, it's best to not underestimate them either. Some of them are Machiavellian intelligent (and evil).

Quote:

Doc Hoy wrote:
I was in the Navy for 26 years....
...So I worked for the government for 26 years.
Can somebody please tell me what is wrong with the plaque?

I'll take a stab at it Doc. Is it the screws holding the sign to the wood, that could easily be unscrewed to steal the sign, instead of being those kind of "one way" screws that can't be unscrewed, so no one could steal the sign? If that isn't it, tell us what is wrong Doc.

Quote:

Noelf2 wrote:
Just playing devil's advocate here, but, that's kind of like having a sign saying "Keep Dogs Off The Lawn", but showing a no-cats picture so everyone is aware that any pets that poop in yards are prohibited.

But if you apply that same "Keep dogs off the lawn" situation to what the sign says, then the sign also says in text (as well as visual)..."Or other non canine animals off the lawn" as well. So actually the sign IS accurate, just interesting and a bit out of the ordinary of what we usually see due to the use of the visual of that dragoon. Once again, we humans perceive something as "strange and unusual" if it isn't something we have grown up with and been used to seeing, propagandized, indoctrinated and conditioned into our world mindset as what we perceive as....normal. I'm guilty of that too, but I try to realize it and tell my mind to STOP THAT! so I don't fall prey to the Orwellian media (Rothchild) conditioning.

Quote:

Tembo tusk wrote:
In response to Bill's question about the Dragoon's model and upon closer inspection of my photograph; the notch in the cylinder appears to be rectangular.

Thanks Tembo, since the notch isn't oval but is rectangular, that would make it a 2nd model dragoon.

Quote:

Hawg Haggen wrote:
Well Bill, its black powder/percussion. It doesn't make a hill of beans difference what model it is.

So if it was a modern DOT vehicle sign, that showed a Ford model "A" instead of a modern vehicle, I guess you'd unnecessarily snipe at me about my mentioning which model car it was too and that "it doesn't matter cause they are all internal combustion conveyances" huh Hawg? Lol. Geesh why do you have to be so crabby? I just found it interesting that they used a very good drawing of a dragoon (and now thanks to Tembo, I know it's a 2nd model dragoon) instead of the more common and more plentiful 1851. Was there anything WRONG with me recognizing and mentioning that it was a dragoon Hawg? Sheez.

The next time someone asks in the forum: "What model BP revolver is this?"
....and you answer telling them, I guess I should be a crab too and post to you saying: "What difference does it make, they're all black powder/percussion".

Take some preparation H and quit being such a crab.

.

Hawg · August 8, 2013, 08:25 PM

Quote:

The next time someone asks in the forum: "What model BP revolver is this?"
....and you answer telling them, I guess I should be a crab too and post to you saying: "What difference does it make, they're all black powder/percussion".

That would be a whole different deal.

noelf2 · August 8, 2013, 08:29 PM

Bill you're an engineer and inventor (I think). Maybe you're reading a bit too much into this, and expecting too much forethought by the people that made the sign. Consider this: People who would make a no guns sign generally don't know squat about guns. Their ignorance is expected, and in this case, comical. You're giving them way too much credit!

Bill Akins · August 8, 2013, 08:31 PM

Like I said earlier Noelf2, you might be right. But we just can't know for sure.

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**4V50 Gary** · August 8, 2013, 10:07 PM

For the record, the last flush toilet before crossing the Great Plains was in the courthouse where the Dred Scott trial was held on a state level in St. Louis. I'd love to see that sign outside the toilet (which has been updated a long time ago with modern plumbing).

swathdiver · August 9, 2013, 02:54 PM

The fools put a "banned" symbol over an antique firearm which is not a firearm nor a deadly weapon.

So they were trying to trick us! So no Glocks or 1911s but cap and ball and flintlock and percussion long guns are aok.

TemboTusk · August 9, 2013, 08:06 PM

Quote:

The fools put a "banned" symbol over an antique firearm which is not a firearm nor a deadly weapon.

I would not want to test your theory about the deadliness of that weapon!

noelf2 · August 10, 2013, 08:14 AM

Tembo I think swath meant "considered by law to be" deadly.

Old Iron · August 11, 2013, 11:41 AM

They just as well have put up a picture of a baseball bat, or a steak knife.
They are "dangerous weapons" too.

MattShlock · August 11, 2013, 06:31 PM

I wanna know how they got the cylinder UNDER the "no" emblem but the grip and barrel are on top of it. I think this spacial impossibility obviates the authenticity of the message and may just be a copyright infringement and/or homage to M.C. Escher.

mykeal · August 11, 2013, 07:20 PM

I opened this thread and had to step away from the computer for a few minutes. When I came back it was floating about two feet above the desk, and slowly gaining altitude....

Closed the thread and a whole lot of hot air escaped....

August 7, 2013, 11:47 PM	#1
TemboTusk Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2012 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 139	The Last Frontier! Found an interesting government sign while traveling in Alaska recently. Truly our last frontier!

August 8, 2013, 01:02 AM	#2
Bill Akins Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2007 Location: Hudson, Florida Posts: 1,135	It has to be either a first or second model dragoon, because of the squareback trigger guard, half round barrel, loading lever catch, and overall shape. But I can't tell which one because I can't see the bolt stop cuts on the cylinder because of the red diagonal line in the circle covering them. . __________________ "This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather". "To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target". Last edited by Bill Akins; August 8, 2013 at 04:22 AM.

August 8, 2013, 05:04 AM	#4
Bill Akins Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2007 Location: Hudson, Florida Posts: 1,135	It kinda does make a difference Hawg. The difference between a "FIREARM" under the NFA, and "other dangerous weapon", which a BP revolver would be since it isn't legally a "FIREARM" under the NFA. I didn't find it hilarious, but found it interesting just as the OP did. I can also understand the thinking behind using that dragoon in the sign. Whoever did that, certainly knew their NFA law. They wanted to make sure that everyone knew that a "FIREARM" was prohibited from being inside a federal building, and also wanted to make sure people knew that any "other dangerous weapon", that wasn't necessarily legally under the NFA a "FIREARM" was also prohibited from being in the building as well. That's obviously why they used the BP revolver in the sign. What I just described, I took in without mentioning it in my previous post, because I understood why they used it, I guess I didn't figure other people here wouldn't likewise realize what I did. The thing I found interesting if not unusual, was someone in the government actually understanding the NFA and applying it in a visual sign hoping people would understand that BP revolvers are legally "weapons" but are not legally "firearms" under the NFA, and was obviously trying to inform people that just because a BP revolver is not a "firearm", it is still considered a "dangerous weapon". Not that I agree with the unconstitutional NFA, it's just that I am surprised that some federal bureaucrat would be that astute on the NFA law. That's what was interesting and unusual to me about it. But I thought others here would get that too, so I didn't mention it and only mentioned that it was either a 1st or 2nd model dragoon but couldn't tell which because the bolt stop cylinder cuts were covered up by the diagonal red line. Does that answer your question of "What difference does it make which model it is?" and explain why I wrote what I wrote in my previous post Hawg? . __________________ "This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather". "To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target". Last edited by Bill Akins; August 8, 2013 at 05:11 AM.

August 8, 2013, 06:14 AM	#5
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	The OP doesn't state whether this is a "state" or a "Federal" sigh . . . Sorry . . . but I think it just represents the stupidity of some government official or employee . . . whether it be a "state" or "Federal" employee . . . . sometimes there isn't much difference in the "stupidity" . . . who like most "governmental people" have no problem in lumping everything together rather than looking at things on an individual basis . . . thus "a gun is a gun". Of course this reflects on all of us since we are the government . . . a "government of the people, by the people and for the people" . . .or are we? __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

August 8, 2013, 06:20 AM	#6
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	I was in the Navy for 26 years.... ...So I worked for the government for 26 years. Can somebody please tell me what is wrong with the plaque? ;o) __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

August 8, 2013, 08:57 AM	#7
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	Well, other than the overall issue of requiring a law-abiding citizen to be defenseless against criminals who will simply ignore the sign while in the facility, there's nothing really wrong with the sign. There is, of course, the irony of depicting a cap and ball revolver, an "antique firearm" under 18 USC 921, and thus a "non-firearm". As Mr. Akins explains. Somewhere....I think. That simply has to be a joke. Its too funny not to be.

August 8, 2013, 09:51 AM	#8
TemboTusk Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2012 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 139	The sign was found in Skagway posted outside a public restroom. I found it both interesting and funny that a cap & ball revolver would be used on the sign as opposed to a more traditional modern hand gun. Alaska did not feel like a "nanny" state, but more rough and ready. Very refreshing and maybe the sign reflects that.

August 8, 2013, 10:32 AM	#9
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,841	Outside a public restroom in Skagway? It's not like the potty would be a place for a shootout. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

August 8, 2013, 11:23 AM	#10
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	Perhaps it was inspired by "Unforgiven"....

August 8, 2013, 07:29 PM	#13
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	Well Bill, its black powder/percussion. It doesn't make a hill of beans difference what model it is.

August 8, 2013, 08:29 PM	#16
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	Bill you're an engineer and inventor (I think). Maybe you're reading a bit too much into this, and expecting too much forethought by the people that made the sign. Consider this: People who would make a no guns sign generally don't know squat about guns. Their ignorance is expected, and in this case, comical. You're giving them way too much credit! __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

August 8, 2013, 08:31 PM	#17
Bill Akins Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2007 Location: Hudson, Florida Posts: 1,135	Like I said earlier Noelf2, you might be right. But we just can't know for sure. . __________________ "This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather". "To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target".

August 8, 2013, 10:07 PM	#18
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,841	For the record, the last flush toilet before crossing the Great Plains was in the courthouse where the Dred Scott trial was held on a state level in St. Louis. I'd love to see that sign outside the toilet (which has been updated a long time ago with modern plumbing). __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

August 9, 2013, 02:54 PM	#19
swathdiver Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2012 Location: Treasure Coast, Florida Posts: 335	The fools put a "banned" symbol over an antique firearm which is not a firearm nor a deadly weapon. So they were trying to trick us! So no Glocks or 1911s but cap and ball and flintlock and percussion long guns are aok.

August 10, 2013, 08:14 AM	#21
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	Tembo I think swath meant "considered by law to be" deadly. __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

August 11, 2013, 11:41 AM	#22
Old Iron Member Join Date: July 29, 2013 Posts: 17	They just as well have put up a picture of a baseball bat, or a steak knife. They are "dangerous weapons" too.

August 11, 2013, 06:31 PM	#23
MattShlock Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2013 Posts: 251	Holy Conundrum Batman! I wanna know how they got the cylinder UNDER the "no" emblem but the grip and barrel are on top of it. I think this spacial impossibility obviates the authenticity of the message and may just be a copyright infringement and/or homage to M.C. Escher.

August 11, 2013, 07:20 PM	#24
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	I opened this thread and had to step away from the computer for a few minutes. When I came back it was floating about two feet above the desk, and slowly gaining altitude.... Closed the thread and a whole lot of hot air escaped....