What gun in this photo?

museumguy · March 14, 2011, 07:26 AM

What gun is Huey P. Newton (Black Panther founder-Chicago, ca. 1968) holding in this photo?

http://www.africawithin.com/bios/huey_newton.htm

Our museum is developing an exhibit about 1968 and we want to use this image and would like to get a gun that matches the photo. Thank you all for your help identifying the last picture (a High Standard Riot Gun), but now the team is choosing this image for the exhibit. Any help would be appreciated!

natman · March 14, 2011, 08:56 AM

Bolt action
LONG barrel
Protruding magazine
Recoil lug above receiver

I'm going to guess a bolt action shotgun similar to the Marlin Goose Gun 12 ga.

BANG · March 14, 2011, 09:15 AM

It sure looks like a Mossberg 195--12 ga, bolt-action, 2-round magazine and their "C-Lect-Choke". This gun does have a protrusion above the receiver, like in the photo, but I'm not sure what it is.

This gun introduced in 1954 and last produced in 1958.

Contact the Havlin's at www.mossbergcollectors.org for further info on this gun.

ThomasT · March 14, 2011, 03:21 PM

I may be wrong but I think that protrusion is a non adjustable rear sight. IIRC there is a recoil lug between the receiver and the barrel and the top of the recoil lug has a notched rear sight in it. I am not for certain though.

markj · March 14, 2011, 03:33 PM

Why do you care? Them BPs blew up the Omaha police dept killing some officers. My cousin was on duty but was on patrol. Terrorists doing terroristic activities. I remember them days, I was there.

Hawg · March 14, 2011, 03:34 PM

It does appear to be a rear sight and have a front sight as well.

ThomasT · March 14, 2011, 03:41 PM

Good eyes. I missed the front sight. I had a bolt action 12 that had that type of rear sight but just had a bead for the front sight. I don't remember what brand it was. It did have a two round box magazine.

davlandrum · March 14, 2011, 03:42 PM

How can you even tell it is a shotgun????

egor20 · March 14, 2011, 03:47 PM

Rear sights on a Mossberg 195
http://www.icollector.com/images/120..._0457_1_lg.jpg

Rear sights on a Marlin Goose gun
http://picturearchive.auctionarms.co...7e47763eb3.jpg

The magazine on the Mossberg seems to cant forward.

The magazine on the Marlin seems to cant to the back.

The picture of the gun Huey has is too blurry to tell.

Sorry

egor20 · March 14, 2011, 03:50 PM

How can you even tell it is a shotgun????

Muzzle choke on the end of the barrel.

pabuckslayer08 · March 14, 2011, 04:41 PM

I know what you mean but im thinking more like a cheap flash supressor on a big bore, looks nothing like a shotgun to me. Big bore .454

Hawg · March 14, 2011, 05:32 PM

Quote:

How can you even tell it is a shotgun????

Muzzle choke on the end of the barrel.

I might be wrong but I don't think it is. I think it's just a trick of the light. The barrel looks too slender to be a shotgun unless it's a 410.

natman · March 15, 2011, 03:55 AM

Quote:

I know what you mean but im thinking more like a cheap flash supressor on a big bore, looks nothing like a shotgun to me. Big bore .454

The barrel is ridiculously long for a rifle. Does this look like a shotgun to you?:

Note the long barrel, the magazine, the recoil lug "rear sight". This one's a Marlin Goose Gun but the bolt is not quite the same as the pictured gun, so I'll go along with the Mossberg 195 with C-lect choke.

Hawg · March 15, 2011, 11:35 AM

Quote:

The barrel is ridiculously long for a rifle.

Not to me it isn't.

Quote:

Does this look like a shotgun to you?:

Yes it does

johnbt · March 15, 2011, 01:09 PM

Looks like a Mossberg 390 to me.

The Marlin goose guns had the bolt handle well in front of the trigger guard. The same goes for the Mossberg 195, although I don't know all their models.

natman · March 16, 2011, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Looks like a Mossberg 390 to me.

I suspect you're right.

Bolt's in the right place, trigger guard and pistol grip are the same, magazine, recoil lug and add-on choke.

Double Naught Spy · March 16, 2011, 05:25 AM

Quote:

I suspect you're right.

Bolt's in the right place, trigger guard and pistol grip are the same, magazine, recoil lug and add-on choke.

Naw, that can't be a match. The buttpads are different and there isn't a color match.

Actually, that is a good looking match, even down to the choke.

Quote:

Why do you care? Them BPs blew up the Omaha police dept killing some officers. My cousin was on duty but was on patrol. Terrorists doing terroristic activities. I remember them days, I was there.

The OP clearly stated...

Quote:

Our museum is developing an exhibit about 1968 and we want to use this image and would like to get a gun that matches the photo.

It may come as a shock to you, but some museums like to provide information about their exhibits and have to do research on the materials with which they are working before sharing those materials with the public. If they are using the picture for a display, folks will inquire as to what is in the image and so it is good to have the information or to actually present the information in the exhibit.

Huey P. Newton may have started the Black Panthers, but is not known to be tied to the bombing you mentioned. He was found guilty in the death of another police officer after a shooting, however.

The BPs did some bad stuff, no doubt, but the weapons of bad guys are often of interest to people and bad guys, unfortunately, are a part of our history.

Scout · March 16, 2011, 06:09 AM

My first gun was a Mossberg 385 KB. I have given it to my son now. It is a 20 gauge shotgun of the design in the photo. Mossberg also made similar shotguns in other bore sizes.

BANG · March 16, 2011, 07:58 AM

I agree that the gun is probably a Mossberg 390 versus the 195 as I originally posted. The bolt handle is over the trigger of the 390, as shown in the picture in question, but more forward--between the trigger guard and magazine--on the 195.

TheKlawMan · March 16, 2011, 12:47 PM

Looking at the photo doesn't the magazine project further from the stock than does the one in th picture of the 390. Also, back then many weapons were cut down (sporterized) WWII weapons from some country sold throught the mail. Still, it looks so much like that 390, I would check with Mossberg and see if they made a variant of the same modle with a modified magazine.

natman · March 16, 2011, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Looking at the photo doesn't the magazine project further from the stock than does the one in th picture of the 390.

The gun in color is a 16 ga. Perhaps Huey's gun is a 12. A 12 ga mag would be longer. The Mossberg 390 was offered in 20, 16 and 12.

TheKlawMan · March 16, 2011, 04:07 PM

A video on youtube suggests that it would have been possible to have a 5 or even a 7 round 16 gauge magazine. Huey's may be a 5?

markj · March 16, 2011, 04:27 PM

Quote:

It may come as a shock to you

No, many people love to dwell on bad people, some idolize them. It just isnt my cup of tea, I saw that photo and asked my question. Some of us here know what they were all about, I do anyway.

Double Naught Spy · March 16, 2011, 08:17 PM

Quote:

No, many people love to dwell on bad people, some idolize them. It just isnt my cup of tea, I saw that photo and asked my question. Some of us here know what they were all about, I do anyway.

So what does a technical query about a gun have to do with idolizing bad people and who said it was an idol exhibit?

egor20 · March 16, 2011, 08:34 PM

Its a technical and historical question. Don't we always say it's the people whom use the gun, not the guns fault.

March 14, 2011, 07:26 AM	#1
museumguy Junior Member Join Date: January 13, 2011 Posts: 4	What gun in this photo? What gun is Huey P. Newton (Black Panther founder-Chicago, ca. 1968) holding in this photo? http://www.africawithin.com/bios/huey_newton.htm Our museum is developing an exhibit about 1968 and we want to use this image and would like to get a gun that matches the photo. Thank you all for your help identifying the last picture (a High Standard Riot Gun), but now the team is choosing this image for the exhibit. Any help would be appreciated!

March 14, 2011, 09:15 AM	#3
BANG Member Join Date: March 13, 2010 Location: PA Posts: 69	It sure looks like a Mossberg 195--12 ga, bolt-action, 2-round magazine and their "C-Lect-Choke". This gun does have a protrusion above the receiver, like in the photo, but I'm not sure what it is. This gun introduced in 1954 and last produced in 1958. Contact the Havlin's at www.mossbergcollectors.org for further info on this gun. Last edited by BANG; March 14, 2011 at 09:30 AM.

March 14, 2011, 03:42 PM	#8
davlandrum Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2006 Location: Lane County Oregon Posts: 2,547	How can you even tell it is a shotgun???? __________________ U.S Army, Retired Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and what is right to do. -Potter Stewart

March 14, 2011, 03:47 PM	#9
egor20 Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2010 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 1,824	Rear sights on a Mossberg 195 http://www.icollector.com/images/120..._0457_1_lg.jpg Rear sights on a Marlin Goose gun http://picturearchive.auctionarms.co...7e47763eb3.jpg The magazine on the Mossberg seems to cant forward. The magazine on the Marlin seems to cant to the back. The picture of the gun Huey has is too blurry to tell. Sorry __________________ Chief stall mucker and grain chef Country don't mean dumb. Steven King. The Stand

March 14, 2011, 03:50 PM	#10
egor20 Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2010 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 1,824	davlandrum *How can you even tell it is a shotgun????* Muzzle choke on the end of the barrel. __________________ Chief stall mucker and grain chef Country don't mean dumb. Steven King. The Stand

March 14, 2011, 08:56 AM	#2
natman Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2008 Posts: 2,606	Bolt action LONG barrel Protruding magazine Recoil lug above receiver I'm going to guess a bolt action shotgun similar to the Marlin Goose Gun 12 ga.

March 14, 2011, 03:21 PM	#4
ThomasT Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 2,753	I may be wrong but I think that protrusion is a non adjustable rear sight. IIRC there is a recoil lug between the receiver and the barrel and the top of the recoil lug has a notched rear sight in it. I am not for certain though.

March 14, 2011, 03:33 PM	#5
markj Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 2005 Location: Crescent Iowa Posts: 2,971	Why do you care? Them BPs blew up the Omaha police dept killing some officers. My cousin was on duty but was on patrol. Terrorists doing terroristic activities. I remember them days, I was there.

March 14, 2011, 03:34 PM	#6
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	It does appear to be a rear sight and have a front sight as well.

March 14, 2011, 03:41 PM	#7
ThomasT Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 2,753	Good eyes. I missed the front sight. I had a bolt action 12 that had that type of rear sight but just had a bead for the front sight. I don't remember what brand it was. It did have a two round box magazine.

March 14, 2011, 04:41 PM	#11
pabuckslayer08 Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2010 Location: South Central Pa Posts: 692	I know what you mean but im thinking more like a cheap flash supressor on a big bore, looks nothing like a shotgun to me. Big bore .454

March 15, 2011, 01:09 PM	#15
johnbt Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Richmond, Virginia USA Posts: 6,004	Looks like a Mossberg 390 to me. The Marlin goose guns had the bolt handle well in front of the trigger guard. The same goes for the Mossberg 195, although I don't know all their models.

March 16, 2011, 06:09 AM	#18
Scout Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2009 Location: Central Florida Posts: 510	My first gun was a Mossberg 385 KB. I have given it to my son now. It is a 20 gauge shotgun of the design in the photo. Mossberg also made similar shotguns in other bore sizes. __________________ God bless the U.S. Cavalry

March 16, 2011, 07:58 AM	#19
BANG Member Join Date: March 13, 2010 Location: PA Posts: 69	I agree that the gun is probably a Mossberg 390 versus the 195 as I originally posted. The bolt handle is over the trigger of the 390, as shown in the picture in question, but more forward--between the trigger guard and magazine--on the 195.

March 16, 2011, 12:47 PM	#20
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,149	Looking at the photo doesn't the magazine project further from the stock than does the one in th picture of the 390. Also, back then many weapons were cut down (sporterized) WWII weapons from some country sold throught the mail. Still, it looks so much like that 390, I would check with Mossberg and see if they made a variant of the same modle with a modified magazine.

March 16, 2011, 04:07 PM	#22
TheKlawMan Junior member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 2,149	A video on youtube suggests that it would have been possible to have a 5 or even a 7 round 16 gauge magazine. Huey's may be a 5?

March 16, 2011, 08:34 PM	#25
egor20 Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2010 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 1,824	Its a technical and historical question. Don't we always say it's the people whom use the gun, not the guns fault. __________________ Chief stall mucker and grain chef Country don't mean dumb. Steven King. The Stand