New Home Defence Shotgun

[Csspecs]

Well yeah, I know most bird hunters have a shell belt or some other holder that is normal hunting gear. I also feel that its best to have ammo that has animals on the box

Fact is that hunting gear is normally well made and well thought out. The new tacticool crap has a funny way of snapping off with real use.

[sholling]

Here is my take on a bandoleer... If you need 5 or 6 more rounds loaded up... yer in a severe bind!
You need to retreat to cover to reload.

Reloads should be done on the fly... shoot and top off, shoot and top off.

And you should be retreating to cover anyway. A shotgun is not a good choice for clearing a house unless you have someone acting as backup when you approach a corner. Handguns work much better for that job. But in reality it's the cops' job to clear the house. It's a minimum 3 person job and they get paid for it.

The homeowners job is to pick a spot and hold it. That may be the master bedroom if you're quick enough to get everyone in there. Or it may be a hallway so you can keep bad guys out of the kids' rooms. Quite frankly if you're following this advice a jury won't care if you used an M60 and wore crossed ammo belts. Or like a friend of mine, where actually named Rambo.

It's only those that live in remote and lonely areas that are going to have to think about defending a larger area. Then it pays to be prepared and not fumbling with boxes of shells. Remember that if something wakes you up in the middle of the night and you didn't have time to grab a bandoleer then you probably didn't have time to grab you pants. Now where are you going to carry your reloads?

[Al Thompson]

I think you have a sound plan and a neat custom shotgun. Do you know who made it?

Second the idea about a bandoleer. Way to work it is to keep it closed. If you have to grab your SG, just slide your arm and head through the bandoleer and proceed on. Buddy of mine has his SG leaning in a corner with the bandoleer hanging off the magazine cap. As his strong hand reaches for the SG, his hand goes thru the bandoleer. His weak hand then guides the bandoleer over his head. So, in about two seconds, he's armed and has plenty of reloads if (God Forbid) he needs them.

[J2.]

I like your thinking. I went with the NEF Pardner. I added a shell holder to the stock and I keep three shells of 00buck in the tube. It sleeps next to the night stand with me.

[sholling]

Second the idea about a bandoleer. Way to work it is to keep it closed. If you have to grab your SG, just slide your arm and head through the bandoleer and proceed on. Buddy of mine has his SG leaning in a corner with the bandoleer hanging off the magazine cap. As his strong hand reaches for the SG, his hand goes thru the bandoleer. His weak hand then guides the bandoleer over his head. So, in about two seconds, he's armed and has plenty of reloads if (God Forbid) he needs them.

Exactly. In fact the bandoleer by my bed is a true bandoleer and not an ammo belt advertised as a bandoleer. There is no buckle - it's a closed loop. They're put out by Blackhawk, are very rugged, hold 55 shells, and cost about $25-30.

[Katrina Guy]

Want to get tactical, instead of reaching for the bandalier for more rounds, why don't you grab your Glock or whatever you have and stick it in your back pocket. Must have some huge house if you are allowed the ability to reach for more shells, while under fire I assume, and reload the shotgun. The rest of us would have been shot by this time already, I mean if five, six or rounds of buckshot hasn't ended the situation, depending on what mfg's shotgun you have.

[sholling]

Want to get tactical, instead of reaching for the bandalier for more rounds, why don't you grab your Glock or whatever you have and stick it in your back pocket.

Do you sleep in your pants? If not the only remaining place to stick your pistol (or extra shells) is going to get mighty uncomfortable.

Must have some huge house if you are allowed the ability to reach for more shells, while under fire I assume, and reload the shotgun. The rest of us would have been shot by this time already, I mean if five, six or rounds of buckshot hasn't ended the situation, depending on what mfg's shotgun you have.

While we all hope that no shots will have to be fired to persuade bad guys to leave it doesn't always work out that way. And while 6 or 7 rounds will probably solve most problems the question remains would you rather have 50rds more than you need or 1 too few to survive the fight? Doing without reloads is quite simply betting your family's life that 6 or 7 will always be enough. Since there is no time penalty to grab the bandoleer I see no reason to make that bet. But it's your life and your right to bet it how and when you like.

As far as time or distance for reloading - with a tactical reload it frankly doesn't make any difference because you're never empty.

[Katrina Guy]

while I do not sleep with my pants on, other then those times where I may have indulged in the grape a tad too much *LOL* just joking of course, one would be hard pressed to bust into my place and be in my face before I was able to throw some jeans on, grab a piece, and the shotgun. Nothing like bars and a 3/8" thick by five inch carbon steel angle iron door jam!-yes one could eventually get in, I'd probably be on my second cup of freshly brewed coffee by then.
Overall, personally speaking, when something does go bump in the night I reach for my 1911 first and foremost period...some crisis similar to total lawlessness such as Katrina's aftermath or L.A. Riots some time back, my shotgun!
If you'd like I could take a pic and post it of my home made door jam, I'm serious-with in in place, you don't even need to lock your door.

[Katrina Guy]

With civil liability in mind:
I don't like my Remington 870 H.D. model, black with synthetic stocks, looks baddd to the bone compared to a prospective juror's idea of what a shotgun "should" look like, probably remembering back to his grand dads or something as a reference point.
I have issues with my mossberg persuader's black synthetic stock as well, while the gun is a typical blue steel look not flat black like my 870.
I have nothing added to either shotgun whatsoever, nothing at all that could be read, or misread, as offensive.
My handguns, have no modifications whatsoever espeically not trigger pull changes from factory specs.
I never keep cool firearm publications in the house, why you may ask, that can be showed to a jury possibly, and a lot of those could spell aggression, could.
I never leave prescription drugs containers around, I never have multiple empty beer or liquor bottles around, never.
I run a rather tight ship as the above goes. Some of these new fangled shotguns coming from Mossberg especially look intimidating, good marketing tool as so many these days go for that sort of badd to the bone look, I for one stay clear of such appearences. Remember who your prospective jurors will likely be, those too stupid enough to get out of jury duty! DUH.
ALL of the above as relates to using said firearm for Home Defense situations, not like having some action job or better rifleing done to a hunting firearm, just wanted to clarify that one-and yes, I'd reach for a 30-30 or a 30.06 if I had to, rather then a black demon .223 or an AK for the above stated purposes of "appearances".

[Katrina Guy]

yea, next time they're over playing cards or whatever, tell them you want to show them something, then return with say your average boaring Remington type .270 bolt action hunting rifle...bet the most you'll get from them is a , "cool" or "nice" then they'll probably return to the card game immediately...then say be right back, want to show you guys something, then return with one of these Bad Arse looking new Mossbergs (heat sheild, muzzle thingy, bayonet, flashlight, extra rounds velcro'd to the stock, lazor light etc etc), wear that bandaolier too for effect, or the same with a Bushmaster or an AK-47, bet you get a WHOA!-DUDE!!!! response! Well, my point is that could be the same effect a jury could have WHOA! Think about it.

[Katrina Guy]

Passes the hat around for free save your arse in civil trial, tips-save your family then end up loosing your house!

[sholling]

apparently we have different abode set ups.

We do, I live in a normal middle class tract home in a nice middle class neighborhood. No bars here just a good solid front door and an alarm system. I spent 20 years working for a door lock company and trust me the front door is no pushover but I refuse to turn my home into a fortress. Besides there are 20 miles of well armed folk between me and a freeway, and 100 miles worth between here and Los Angeles.

As far as mean looking guns go that depends on where you live. If you live in a state with a castle law then it just doesn't matter. If someone has broken into your home it becomes 100% their problem. But personally I don't care for radical looking shotguns. A conventional stock and an extended mag is plenty. But like I said running out of ammo is not an option and if someone is in your home it won't matter if you have a single bandoleer or crossed bandoleers like Pancho Via you're in your home and self defense is a right. Now if you were chasing somebody down the street you'd have extra explaining to do, but then the question is why are you chasing somebody down the street to begin with.

[Katrina Guy]

We're not talking about your rights in your home nor are we talking about castle rights, talking about CIVIL litigation, are you familar at all with that term??? You can get sued these days because the coffee you bought was too hot. HELLO!!! anyone home!??

[Katrina Guy]

that you can be sued in an automobile accident even if a ticket was not issued to you??
do you know that a certain all star great turned actor was acquitted of criminal prosectution then sued in civil court and lost?
Do you not know this??

[Katrina Guy]

as relates to sleeze Attorneys, well they also have hearse chasers now a days, you better wake up, instead of spending time in here you ought to go take an attorney friend to lunch or something and get some insight, since apparently you think I'm out to lunch.

[Katrina Guy]

Unless your State Legislature has something there about no civil suit can be brought against you if you are cleared from a police or prosecutions perspective, you are fair game for the hearse chasers. I won't post any more on this topic.

[hogdogs]

KG, The CD law in Fla does remove the risk of civil suit. If the DA determines it was a "clean shoot" within the right to use lethal force for defense than the BG nor his family can file suit... As soon as the paperwork is related to a clean shoot, it becomes toilet paper.
Brent

[Katrina Guy]

IF such a statue exist in one's State, otherwise..

[sholling]

HELLO!!! anyone home!??

Hmmmm, would I rather be dead or sued? I'll take sued. But in any case I have 1.5 million in liability coverage and the insurance company is going to defend against any suit right to the death. Second there isn't a jury within 50 miles of here that would give a darn if you used a bazooka as long as it was in your home and felt threatened. Meanwhile I'll be suing his shyster for filing a frivolous lawsuit.

Anyway you're an adult and you're free to worry more about lawyers than death. That's your right. Please respect my right you care more about survival than lawyers. Best just to agree to disagree.

[paknheat]

The C.D. law in Texas is same as Florida it appears.

[Anticonn]

We're not talking about your rights in your home nor are we talking about castle rights, talking about CIVIL litigation, are you familar at all with that term??? You can get sued these days because the coffee you bought was too hot. HELLO!!! anyone home!??

Not in my neck of the woods, civil case wouldn't make it anywhere near a courtroom, and you could probably make the intruder's next of kin pay you for ammunition costs.

18-1-704.5. Use of deadly physical force against an intruder.
Statute text

(1) The general assembly hereby recognizes that the citizens of Colorado have a right to expect absolute safety within their own homes.

(2) Notwithstanding the provisions of section 18-1-704, any occupant of a dwelling is justified in using any degree of physical force, including deadly physical force, against another person when that other person has made an unlawful entry into the dwelling, and when the occupant has a reasonable belief that such other person has committed a crime in the dwelling in addition to the uninvited entry, or is committing or intends to commit a crime against a person or property in addition to the uninvited entry, and when the occupant reasonably believes that such other person might use any physical force, no matter how slight, against any occupant.

(3) Any occupant of a dwelling using physical force, including deadly physical force, in accordance with the provisions of subsection (2) of this section shall be immune from criminal prosecution for the use of such force.

(4) Any occupant of a dwelling using physical force, including deadly physical force, in accordance with the provisions of subsection (2) of this section shall be immune from any civil liability for injuries or death resulting from the use of such force.

The only real loophole in that is subsection 4 does not protect against civil suit for property damage, so I guess if the bad guy's cell phone got hit with some buckshot, and it had significant sentimental value to the family you could be sued for, like, $200.

[paknheat]

Well AntiConn have a slug handy & shoot 'em in the head.That way the cell phone is safe.

[V.Hunter]

Been away for some time and I was sad to see this thread go in the direction that did, oh well no harm in a little debate huh.

Laws are laws; they are made by men and interpreted by men. Even in this day and age I will take my chances with a jury regardless of my current or future state laws. Some states are ridiculous as they do not allow the use of deadly force in any circumstance. They would rather an entire family perish than one criminal.

As far as maker I am not sure. I haven’t gotten back to the shop to check it out like I wanted to. I will look into the maker as well as post pictures whenever possible.

I have been buying ammunition here and there when available and picked up a few boxes of 00 Buck, #4 Buck, and #4 lead to see how each will work.

[Anticonn]

Laws are laws; they are made by men and interpreted by men. Even in this day and age I will take my chances with a jury regardless of my current or future state laws. Some states are ridiculous as they do not allow the use of deadly force in any circumstance. They would rather an entire family perish than one criminal.

While I agree with you in principle, I'm not willing to spend time in prison for defending myself, just as I am not willing to be a victim.

If your state won't allow you the right to life, move out. I know I will.

[V.Hunter]

While I agree with you in principle, I'm not willing to spend time in prison for defending myself, just as I am not willing to be a victim.

If your state won't allow you the right to life, move out. I know I will.

In the unlikely event that I find myself in the situation that I "must" defend myself I am not going to be worrying about jail time. The idea that I would have to take a human life worries me more than the possibility of going to jail for defending myself.

In reality moving to another state is not always an option. With an ever failing economy and lack of work from the top to bottom it is harder now to relocate than before.

I envy those who can just pick up and leave. It is something that I wish I were able to do.