Astra Mod 400 (9MM/38)

TGS · July 16, 2002, 09:16 PM

Can you tell me what a 9MM Bayard might be equivelant? This Astra is in very nice condition. It seemed to chamber a 9mm parabelum nicely though I didnt fire it. In my 2oth edit. blue book it indicates it fires a 9mm Bayard. If I wish toi fire this gun what should I use. I think the 38 refers to .38 acp. Is this still made?
Tom

TangoRomeo · July 16, 2002, 09:37 PM

The 9mm Bayard is also known as the 9mm Largo or, I believe, 9x21. Someone please correct if I'm wrong.hth

Jim Watson · July 16, 2002, 11:28 PM

The 9mm Bergmann-Bayard or 9mm Largo in Spain, is a 9x23.
It is NOT the same as the 9x23 Winchester and you should take no chance of getting a 9x23 Winchester in a Largo, it is about twice the chamber pressure.

Some Largos will shoot .38ACP, if their breechface is wide enough for the semirim, but that is not a common load. The .38 Super is really too hot for those blowback guns, although not as bad as the 9x23 Win.

They used to advertise those guns to shoot any 9mm/.38. A 9mm Para might work, if it headspaces on the extractor or case taper. If it does not, it can give some very nasty effects, like blown primers and caseheads.

You can get 9mm Largo Blazer from such places as Nachez and Spanish surplus from Dillon and others. No reason to try substitutes. My Dad once saw a dealer dump a bullet right between a customer's feet while demonstrating that, although he did not have the right ammo, he had some that would work ok. It jammed and he got on the trigger trying to extract the mismatched cartridge.

TGS · July 17, 2002, 07:13 AM

Thanks for the quick feedback. I sure appreciate it.
Tom

TangoRomeo · July 17, 2002, 08:33 PM

Hey jim,

Thanks for the correction on the 9x21 vs 9.23!

johnwill · July 19, 2002, 09:35 AM

My Astra 400 is actually marked for 9mm/.38, so I suspect it'll shoot the .38ACP, though I haven't actually tried it.

C.R.Sam · July 19, 2002, 07:41 PM

I would never depend on an extractor to establish headspace.

Too easy for the cartridge to go on forward.

Cartridges of the World says the Astra 400 will handle the .38 ACP.

Sam

Added. COTW also says the Astra will handle the 9mm Styer cartridge. Rather non picky pistol eh ?

TGS · July 20, 2002, 08:21 AM

by .38 acp i'm assuming it means .380 acp?

C.R.Sam · July 20, 2002, 01:52 PM

Yes.

Jim Watson · July 20, 2002, 03:23 PM

Sam!
What were you thinking of?

.38 ACP does NOT mean .380 ACP

The .38 ACP is the round used in Colt pistols from 1900 until 1928 when they started making the 1911 for it, increased the velocity about from 1070 to 1300 fps and called it the .38 Super. The .380 ACP came out in 1908 for Colt pocket pistols.

I don't know if it is still in production, but old stock .38 ACP ammo is pretty available. And to repeat, Dillon has Spanish surplus 9mm Largo non corrosive ammo, just what the gun was made for. I can't find anybody with Blazer Largo in stock but there is some around.

James K · July 20, 2002, 09:13 PM

FWIW, some 400's will not take .38 ACP (yes, I mean .38 ACP, not .380) because the breech face is not milled large enough to take the semi-rimmed case. This is easily changed, of course.

If you want to use the .38 ACP, buy some unprimed .38 Super cases and just use light loads. If you want, you can trim the rim down. 9mm Steyr will also work; 9mm Para works by wedging into the chamber. .380 ACP (9mm Kurz) will just drop into the chamber and will not function the gun even if inserted under the extractor.

DO NOT USE .38 SUPER!

Jim

C.R.Sam · July 21, 2002, 08:50 PM

Oops..
Thanks Jim W.

Sam

TGS · July 22, 2002, 12:28 PM

Would you have a web address for the "Dillion" company or any other sources for the 9mm Largo or .38 ACP?
Tom

Jim Watson · July 22, 2002, 02:49 PM

Dillon has real Spanish surplus 9mm Largo at
http://dillonprecision.com/template/...3&min=0&dyn=1&

I don't think .38 ACP is in production and I don't know anybody selling it over the net. There is a guy in my area who sells odd ammo at gunshows and usually has .38 ACP, 9mm L, and 9mm Steyr that the Astra 400 will handle.

rob_helms · July 23, 2002, 12:50 AM

I shoot my Astra 400 using 38 Super brass. Not 38 super factory loads! I load 125 JHP's to 1200 fps, and 158 gn lead bullets to 800 fps. I have read this pistol will digest .380's 9mm Para, and so on. IMHO this is bad advice, the only thing holding the case to the breach would be the extractor, and the case to chamber dimensions would be sloppy. This pistol was not designed for the pressures generated by 9mm Para, 38 Super, .356 etc. It is a blowback action, not locked breech. The rim on a 38 Super is thicker than a 9mm Largo but this does'nt seem to be a problem with my pistol. I read somewhere long ago about modifying the extractor for 38 super cases. Hope this helps.

TGS · July 23, 2002, 06:47 PM

As always The Firing Line comes thru again

I'll be contacting Dillion right away. If it were my gun I'd be rolling my own but this should get him started.
Tom

Jim Watson · July 23, 2002, 08:22 PM

If you are going to reload for a Largo, why not get some Starline Largo brass and do it right?

TGS · July 25, 2002, 12:35 PM

Jim,
I would if it were my gun but the owner doesnt shoot a lot and wont be doing any reloading
Tom

July 16, 2002, 09:16 PM	#1
TGS Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1999 Location: Woodbury TN Posts: 138	Astra Mod 400 (9MM/38) Can you tell me what a 9MM Bayard might be equivelant? This Astra is in very nice condition. It seemed to chamber a 9mm parabelum nicely though I didnt fire it. In my 2oth edit. blue book it indicates it fires a 9mm Bayard. If I wish toi fire this gun what should I use. I think the 38 refers to .38 acp. Is this still made? Tom

July 16, 2002, 09:37 PM	#2
TangoRomeo Member Join Date: March 11, 2001 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 26	The 9mm Bayard is also known as the 9mm Largo or, I believe, 9x21. Someone please correct if I'm wrong.hth __________________ -TR

July 17, 2002, 07:13 AM	#4
TGS Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1999 Location: Woodbury TN Posts: 138	Good Info ya'll Thanks for the quick feedback. I sure appreciate it. Tom

July 17, 2002, 08:33 PM	#5
TangoRomeo Member Join Date: March 11, 2001 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 26	Hey jim, Thanks for the correction on the 9x21 vs 9.23! __________________ -TR

July 19, 2002, 09:35 AM	#6
johnwill Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,451	My Astra 400 is actually marked for 9mm/.38, so I suspect it'll shoot the .38ACP, though I haven't actually tried it. __________________ I collect old pistols, got any?

July 16, 2002, 11:28 PM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,534	The 9mm Bergmann-Bayard or 9mm Largo in Spain, is a 9x23. It is NOT the same as the 9x23 Winchester and you should take no chance of getting a 9x23 Winchester in a Largo, it is about twice the chamber pressure. Some Largos will shoot .38ACP, if their breechface is wide enough for the semirim, but that is not a common load. The .38 Super is really too hot for those blowback guns, although not as bad as the 9x23 Win. They used to advertise those guns to shoot any 9mm/.38. A 9mm Para might work, if it headspaces on the extractor or case taper. If it does not, it can give some very nasty effects, like blown primers and caseheads. You can get 9mm Largo Blazer from such places as Nachez and Spanish surplus from Dillon and others. No reason to try substitutes. My Dad once saw a dealer dump a bullet right between a customer's feet while demonstrating that, although he did not have the right ammo, he had some that would work ok. It jammed and he got on the trigger trying to extract the mismatched cartridge.

July 19, 2002, 07:41 PM	#7
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	I would never depend on an extractor to establish headspace. Too easy for the cartridge to go on forward. Cartridges of the World says the Astra 400 will handle the .38 ACP. Sam Added. COTW also says the Astra will handle the 9mm Styer cartridge. Rather non picky pistol eh ? Last edited by C.R.Sam; July 19, 2002 at 08:07 PM.

July 20, 2002, 08:21 AM	#8
TGS Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1999 Location: Woodbury TN Posts: 138	one more dum question by .38 acp i'm assuming it means .380 acp?

July 20, 2002, 01:52 PM	#9
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Yes.

July 20, 2002, 03:23 PM	#10
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,534	Sam! What were you thinking of? .38 ACP does NOT mean .380 ACP The .38 ACP is the round used in Colt pistols from 1900 until 1928 when they started making the 1911 for it, increased the velocity about from 1070 to 1300 fps and called it the .38 Super. The .380 ACP came out in 1908 for Colt pocket pistols. I don't know if it is still in production, but old stock .38 ACP ammo is pretty available. And to repeat, Dillon has Spanish surplus 9mm Largo non corrosive ammo, just what the gun was made for. I can't find anybody with Blazer Largo in stock but there is some around.

July 20, 2002, 09:13 PM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	FWIW, some 400's will not take .38 ACP (yes, I mean .38 ACP, not .380) because the breech face is not milled large enough to take the semi-rimmed case. This is easily changed, of course. If you want to use the .38 ACP, buy some unprimed .38 Super cases and just use light loads. If you want, you can trim the rim down. 9mm Steyr will also work; 9mm Para works by wedging into the chamber. .380 ACP (9mm Kurz) will just drop into the chamber and will not function the gun even if inserted under the extractor. DO NOT USE .38 SUPER! Jim

July 21, 2002, 08:50 PM	#12
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Oops.. Thanks Jim W. Sam

July 22, 2002, 12:28 PM	#13
TGS Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1999 Location: Woodbury TN Posts: 138	Contact for Dillion Would you have a web address for the "Dillion" company or any other sources for the 9mm Largo or .38 ACP? Tom

July 22, 2002, 02:49 PM	#14
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,534	Dillon has real Spanish surplus 9mm Largo at http://dillonprecision.com/template/...3&min=0&dyn=1& I don't think .38 ACP is in production and I don't know anybody selling it over the net. There is a guy in my area who sells odd ammo at gunshows and usually has .38 ACP, 9mm L, and 9mm Steyr that the Astra 400 will handle.

July 23, 2002, 12:50 AM	#15
rob_helms Junior Member Join Date: June 1, 2002 Location: S.W. VA Posts: 12	I shoot my Astra 400 using 38 Super brass. Not 38 super factory loads! I load 125 JHP's to 1200 fps, and 158 gn lead bullets to 800 fps. I have read this pistol will digest .380's 9mm Para, and so on. IMHO this is bad advice, the only thing holding the case to the breach would be the extractor, and the case to chamber dimensions would be sloppy. This pistol was not designed for the pressures generated by 9mm Para, 38 Super, .356 etc. It is a blowback action, not locked breech. The rim on a 38 Super is thicker than a 9mm Largo but this does'nt seem to be a problem with my pistol. I read somewhere long ago about modifying the extractor for 38 super cases. Hope this helps. __________________ Rob Helms

July 23, 2002, 06:47 PM	#16
TGS Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1999 Location: Woodbury TN Posts: 138	As always The Firing Line comes thru again I'll be contacting Dillion right away. If it were my gun I'd be rolling my own but this should get him started. Tom

July 23, 2002, 08:22 PM	#17
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,534	If you are going to reload for a Largo, why not get some Starline Largo brass and do it right?

July 25, 2002, 12:35 PM	#18
TGS Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 1999 Location: Woodbury TN Posts: 138	Jim, I would if it were my gun but the owner doesnt shoot a lot and wont be doing any reloading Tom

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