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Old October 21, 2017, 11:34 AM   #1
Nathan
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Please critic my build...AR15 SPR

SPR Build for shooting 100-600 yd targets. I'm looking to shoot under 1.0 MOA at 600 yards....to give me some allowance for my form and still hit a paper plate.

Upper: Spikes
Lower: Spikes
LPK: Armalite
Trigger: ADCO modified RRA
Pistol Grip: Ergo R hand Suregrip
BCG: BCM...bolt replaced with what WOA sells cause it will be headspaced to the barrel
Barrel: WOA Midweight 20"
Forearm: ALG Defense V1 15"
Adj Gas Block: Superlative Arms Adjustable Bleed-Off Clamp On Gas Block
Muzzle Device: Miculek Brake or ALG SBC
Stock: Magpul PRS
Mount: ADM
Optic: Nikon Monarch 3 2-8x

Is this the right balance for my SPR? Am I inadvertently putting some pos part with a group of higher quality parts? Any fit issues? Other obvious issues? Really, I'm just looking for feedback.
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Old October 21, 2017, 11:45 AM   #2
OzeanJaeger
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Rifles either shoot a minute or they don’t. The further out you go the more it’s dependant on the cartridge.

If you want precision at 600 yds with a gas gun I’d go with a heavier barrel contour, more scope, and build in .308 or Creedmoor. It’s going to cost you a little more, but 600yds is further than most people think.

It’s hard for me to see the target @ 400yds through a 9X deer scope. I have a competition 5.56 with a full Palma barrel, and 400yds is about the max I can shoot with any confidence.
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Old October 21, 2017, 12:44 PM   #3
Nathan
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Good point. At 100 yds, I truely expect to see .5moa or better with reloads tuned to the gun.

I would go Creedmor, but have much of this in a current rifle.
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Old October 21, 2017, 05:51 PM   #4
bacardisteve
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Sounds like a good build. I don't like 100yd groups with boat tail heavy for caliber bullets. I have a spr built with a Kreiger BBL that shoots 3/4 moa at 100yds and 1/2 moa at 300yds.
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Old October 21, 2017, 07:55 PM   #5
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Sounds like a good set up overall. Also sounds like you did your homework, and I hope you achieve your accuracy goals.

The Nikon 2-8x scope sounds like a good idea, but I just thought Id suggest another one that I have some personal experience with and have found to be a real winner. . .

Burris Veracity 2-10x42. It's got a first focal plane reticle, and a 30mm tube. I love the magnification range on that thing, the 2-10x is incredibly useful for a .223. It's got great glass and is very clear, and I like the simplicity of the scope as well as the first focal plane reticle. I'm not sure if they even make them anymore, but I think you can still find them for sale online. I'd give it a look if you want something versatile that can work well for closer range shots as well as long range stuff..

Good luck and enjoy!
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Old October 21, 2017, 08:14 PM   #6
rickyrick
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Sounds better than most builds. It’s a good time now for building ARs, you can get the parts that you want instead of settling for whatever is available.
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Old October 22, 2017, 12:05 AM   #7
Troy800
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Looks good, that will be a nice rifle when your done. Ill list a few point but they are mainly personal preferance.

-I like Geissele triggers. Just personal preferance.
-You didnt specify what it is chambered in but recommend wylde chamber
-You may not need an adjustable gas block with that length of barrel depending on how far the gas port is extended out on the barrel. It would still be a good addition.
-I would go with Miculek compensator or BattleComp. Double up the hearing protection, both these will ring your bell but makes fast followup shots a breeze.
-If you are going to be doing serious shooting at 600 yard you may need more scope. If you are ringing steel that will work. I have a 1-4 but mine but it is set up for 3-gun. I can keep both eyes open at 1x for close range and ring steel all day at 4x but not good for precision work at extended range.
-One other addition i did that i really like is add a JP silent capture buffer system. This is just for balancing out the feel and will not improve accuracy. Also able to change weights if you decide to run a lighter carrier group.
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Old October 22, 2017, 05:08 AM   #8
mavracer
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Really barrel, trigger and optics is the only things I really worry about and the RRA trigger is a good one and I love WOA barrels, the Nikon is prolly fine I'd prefer a Leupold Mark AR Mod 1.
Only thing I see really wrong is it's really more of a DMR than a SPR, SPRs have 18" barrels LOL
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Old October 22, 2017, 07:12 AM   #9
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I'm a real "critic" and can "critique" almost anything with an extremely critical opinion. With that in mind, I'll just say "You're throwing quite a pile of $$ into the project with a 50/50 chance of achieving your goals"- either it will or it won't.
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Old October 22, 2017, 09:03 AM   #10
Nathan
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Quote:
?...
The Nikon 2-8x scope sounds like a good idea, but I just thought Id suggest....

Burris Veracity 2-10x42. It's got a first focal plane reticle, and a 30mm tube. I love the magnification range on that thing, the 2-10x is incredibly ....
I totally agree with your assessment of the Burris. They are nice optics. I chose the Nikon due to its weight. I wanted a relatively light optic. The Burris is 22.7 oz vs 13.4 oz for the Nikon. Obviously, I'm giving up some optical quality, focal plane, etc for weight. I basically am looking for Elan 2x or 8x functionality.....probably getting a quick throw lever.


Ultimately, this is the SPR challenge...weight vs accuracy. If the accuracy is not good enough, I will be looking for another optic.


Any thoughts on the WOA barrel vs Shilen vs Kreiger? WOA says their experience is all 3 shoot the same out the door, but there may be some accuracy life difference.
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Old October 22, 2017, 09:21 AM   #11
Nathan
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Quote:
-I like Geissele triggers. Just personal preferance.
I have run one once, but not for long. This RRA is pretty sweet. If it is causing accuracy issues, it will be replaced. I was thinking Jard or Geissele.

Quote:
-You didnt specify what it is chambered in but recommend wylde chamber
It is a 223 Wylde.

Quote:
-You may not need an adjustable gas block with that length of barrel depending on how far the gas port is extended out on the barrel. It would still be a good addition.
That is to allow some recoil minimization tuning. I want this rifle to be pretty smooth shot to shot and bounce less than my other AR's have.

Quote:
-I would go with Miculek compensator or BattleComp. Double up the hearing protection, both these will ring your bell but makes fast followup shots a breeze.
That is the joy of muzzle breaks! This is a range gun so always ear pro in use. Wonder if the JP or Precision Armament Brake might be more effective? The Miculek looked like a great price vs effectiveness compromise.

Quote:
-If you are going to be doing serious shooting at 600 yard you may need more scope. If you are ringing steel that will work. I have a 1-4 but mine but it is set up for 3-gun. I can keep both eyes open at 1x for close range and ring steel all day at 4x but not good for precision work at extended range.
Agree. That is how the 2-8 got on this rifle. I may look at a 3-15 or similar.

Quote:
-One other addition i did that i really like is add a JP silent capture buffer system. This is just for balancing out the feel and will not improve accuracy. Also able to change weights if you decide to run a lighter carrier group.
I'll have to look at their website. Does it reduce recoil, or just silence it?
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Old October 22, 2017, 09:22 AM   #12
bacardisteve
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Can't speak for shilen I have builds with Douglass, woa,and Kreiger. They all are easily sub moa. When I had Frank White of compass lake build my spr upper I asked the same question and he said the Kreiger being hand lapped typically "breaks in" sooner and lasts longer then the others he offered but they were all more accurate than most can shoot.
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Old October 22, 2017, 09:29 AM   #13
Nathan
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Quote:
I'm a real "critic" and can "critique" almost anything with an extremely critical opinion. With that in mind, I'll just say "You're throwing quite a pile of $$ into the project with a 50/50 chance of achieving your goals"- either it will or it won't.
Mobuck, I appreciate your comment, but is there another way? I think I'm probably better than 50/50. My PSA middy is shooting under 1 MOA with my reloads. Boy does it like those Xtreme 55gr bullets! This is at 50 yds with a red dot.

I think I'm capable as I can shoot my buddy's Savage 10 308 under 0.5" at 100, whenever he lets me shoot it. My Savage 12 300 WSM is more like .6-.75"... but IT WILL IMPROVE! .....or be forced to wear a new Kreiger barrel!
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Old October 22, 2017, 09:35 AM   #14
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I really like how low profile the Nikon MONARCH 3/M-223 2-8 BDC are compared to a full size optic. I have used my other .223 AR with a M-223 2-8 BDC 600 to hit 10 inch steel plates at 400 yards using the BDC reticle and Nikon's Spot On Pogram. I like the M-223 AR mount as well.

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Old October 22, 2017, 09:53 AM   #15
Bartholomew Roberts
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If you drop down to 18" on barrel length, you don't lose much ballistic performance but you can shave some weight off (especially with the thicker profiles). I've shot a 16" with 55gr out to 600yds, so if that is your distant range an 18" barrel will do what needs to be done.
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Old October 22, 2017, 10:07 AM   #16
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BR, If you're gonna go to 18 why not go to 16, thread barrel and then wait 10 months for a suppressor ? Shooting suppressed is so much fun and safer for everyones hearing. My rifles about shoots so much better with a can on the end. Ballistically you don't lose a huge amount of MV droping to 16 or 18 inches as BR stated. I did some Chrono testing with some of my AR's starting at 24 and going down to a 12 inch SBR with .223 ammo. Unfortunately I can't find the results but I started at roguhly 3200 fps and was at 2900+ with the 12 inch barrel.
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Old October 22, 2017, 10:41 AM   #17
Nathan
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Tell me more about the 18". I'm seriously considering the WOA 18" SPR or 3 gun barrel as options.

I'm not sure how the rifle will balance with a magpul PRS stock and an 18" barrel. Since it will mostly shoot from a rest and I don't need to deploy from indoors like a true SPR, I went 20". It also gets the muzzle brake 2 more inches away! 20" also gives me more time before it heats up.

While I like the idea of a suppressor on a rifle, I'm waiting to put on my 300 WSM first....and hopefully without a stamp! <fingers crossed>
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Old October 22, 2017, 11:28 AM   #18
bman940
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Barrel, to cut or not to cut

With the PRS stock, if it was mine, I'd leave everything just the way you have it. If you put a 6 position stock on it, then I'd consider cutting it down to 16 inches or just buying a 16 inch barrel. IMHO. I go through a lot of guns and it kils me to mess with a good thing. I'm from the school if ain't broke don't try to fix it!
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Old October 22, 2017, 12:24 PM   #19
Troy800
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Alot of the recomendations come down to personal preference and what you are setting your rifle up to do. Mine is built specifically for 3-gun. The compititions i shoot at are 80% 5-50 yards, 15% 50-100 yards, and 5% steel 200-600 yards. So mine is set up for fast close range work.

The JP spring wont make a big difference on felt recoil with the standard carrier group but will allow you to fine tune, especially if you choose to buy a light weight group. It quiets it down and i think it made it smoother. Could be just me trying to justify the cost to myself. This is also a simple upgrade later on if you choose to go that route. No spring or change in buffers will reduce recoil. The objective is to balance the group (between gas adj and spring buffer) to take the "bounce" out as the carrier group cycles.

I run a 16" barrel. 18-20 seems to be the standard i see at 3-gun on custom builds. Most off the shelf ammo is optimized for a 16" barrel and you wont see a large advantage with a longer barrel. If you plan on loading your own ammo you can change your loads and take advantage of a longer barrel. If i changed my barrel i would go to an 18" but that would mainly be to take advantage of rifle length gas block position.

One last thought. Look as your adjustable gas block and hand guard an make sure you are able to reach the adjustment screw. I didnt think of that and had to build a custom tool to reach mine. Yours looks similar to mine. I cut off the allen wrench and epoxied it into the end of a wood dowel about 8" long to reach from the end of my handguard. Some have dremeled out an opening in the handguard but i did nnot want to do that.

Whatever choice you make it looks like you are going to have an awsome rifle that will bring you years of enjoyment. Nothing like a fine tune AR 15 to put a smile on your face.
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Old October 22, 2017, 03:40 PM   #20
HJ857
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I assembled a similar rifle using a WOA 20" fluted barrel with the matched bolt. I think it's great.

I just have two things, first I agree that the scope is likely to be the weak point, my goal is to hit a 5" plate at 500 meters 100% of the time. The best I've ever gotten is 70%. My initial scope was a Nikon M223 which I thought was not enough magnification at 12x. I swapped for a M308 that I had laying around and that was a great deal better, so I do think more magnification is better, despite weight.

I like the Nikon scopes a lot though I think the elevation turret markings are silly, so I swapped the windage and elevation turrets so I can just use a standard MOA correction like the rest of the world does. Works great. I use the Burris rings with the Posi-Align inserts.

The other thing is the trigger. I like the RRA NM trigger a lot except the two I've used both wore out pretty fast. I'm now using an adjustable Geiselle. I suggest an adjustable trigger. It gives you the most flexibility for various uses.

For side notes, the Hornady ELD Match bullets are awesome since you mentioned target work and handloading. The 77 grain version is a single load round only, you can't make it fit a magazine. I'm using H4895 and it's still running 1333 fps at 1000 yards.

If you run single load rounds, get a Bob Sled single load adapter.

Test the 73 grain ELD-M for mag length loads. If your barrel runs them accurately, that's a good all around target bullet.

No matter what, that's a really nice rifle you have there.
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Old October 22, 2017, 06:18 PM   #21
Nathan
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Thanks HJ857.

What is your benchrest 100, 200 of 300 yd accuracy with that setup?
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Old October 22, 2017, 06:23 PM   #22
Danoobie
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The proof is in the pudding. How does it shoot for you?

Last edited by Danoobie; October 22, 2017 at 07:10 PM.
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Old October 22, 2017, 06:36 PM   #23
Nathan
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Huh? I haven't bought my parts yet!
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Old October 22, 2017, 07:54 PM   #24
rickyrick
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I thought it was a done deal too
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Old October 22, 2017, 08:53 PM   #25
Nathan
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Hmmm sorry. Still in the design stage. Looks like about another $1000 in parts.
Barrel - $275
Gas block - $90
Muzzle brake - $40
Forearm - $175
Buttstock- $280

Extras - $100
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