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Old January 29, 2018, 12:50 PM   #1
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Are Antique Firearms that use cartridges subject to the NFA Act?

By Antique Fireams I mean firearms that are made prior to 1898 that are not chambered for commonly available ammunition.

I had the thought a few days ago about how to get around short barrel rifle/shotguns legal definition so I don't have to file paperwork, wait, pay $200 tax stamps and the idea I had was, say I bought a Snider rifle in .577 Snider, if I were to cut the barrel down to 12 inches, would that mean it becomes an SBR legally even though it is an antique firearm that uses ammunition not commonly available?

Also, would that apply to a 12 or 16 gauge antique shotgun when they were designed for black powder? What about an 11 or 15 gauge antique shotgun designed for black powder?
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Old January 29, 2018, 02:41 PM   #2
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https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearm...itions-antique
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Old January 29, 2018, 02:58 PM   #3
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That's a good resource, thanks.

"Even though this weapon may exhibit a barrel shorter than *16 or 18 inches*, it is subject to NFA regulations governing minimum dimensions because it employs a conventional ignition system and uses fixed ammunition that is readily available through ordinary channels of commercial trade. Consequently, this weapon would be classified as a “short-barreled *rifle or shotgun*” and therefore all NFA regulations.

Does this mean that if the ammunition that an antique firearm is chambered for is NOT readily available through ordinary channels of commercial trade, is it still considered antique if the barrel is shortened below NFA lengths?
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Old January 29, 2018, 03:47 PM   #4
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That’s a question I would direct at ATF since their opinion carries a lot more weight than mine. Since .577 Snider is available online for sale and uses fixed ammo, I’d say that option is out though.
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Old January 29, 2018, 04:37 PM   #5
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I guess I probably should seeing as the question is in regards more to which cartridges and shotgun gauges are considered "fixed ammunition that is readily available through commercial trade" can vary depending on what is currently being manufactured and sold online.

So far as I can tell, if the firearm used a fixed ammunition that isn't readily available, it's an antique and is not subject to NFA regulations. That means if one had an uncommon gauge for a shotgun, like 11, 14, 15, or 18 gauge, they should be able to cut the barrels below 18 inches and not be subject to the $200 tax stamp and registration.
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Old January 29, 2018, 04:44 PM   #6
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Instead of going to all that trouble....just do the form 1, pay your tax and make a gun you can feed easily and shoot/enjoy often.

I just dont understand folks wanting to get around the legal issues. Its not hard at all to comply with NFA rules and build what you want. Ive done it a bunch and will do it again.

I understand the not wanting to wait issues. So build it as a pistol (brace or not) and shoot it that way till the stamp comes back. You will be happier in the end then trying some half-baked work around in a caliber/gauge you cant readily obtain.

Just my .02c....
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Old January 29, 2018, 04:59 PM   #7
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Sharkbite is absolutely correct.
Just do it.
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Old January 29, 2018, 05:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharkbite View Post
Instead of going to all that trouble....just do the form 1, pay your tax and make a gun you can feed easily and shoot/enjoy often.

I just dont understand folks wanting to get around the legal issues. Its not hard at all to comply with NFA rules and build what you want. Ive done it a bunch and will do it again.

I understand the not wanting to wait issues. So build it as a pistol (brace or not) and shoot it that way till the stamp comes back. You will be happier in the end then trying some half-baked work around in a caliber/gauge you cant readily obtain.

Just my .02c....
I would, but my state doesn't allow anything NFA, not even an AOW, but it does allow antique firearms as classified in US Code as do all 50 states.

As for a gauge I can't "readily obtain" I figured that I'd have to make some all brass shells on a lathe or make a 20 or 24 gauge adapter for the uncommon gauged chamber.
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Old January 29, 2018, 06:53 PM   #9
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I would, but my state doesn't allow anything NFA, not even an AOW, but it does allow antique firearms as classified in US Code as do all 50 states.
Well.... that does change things. My only advise is MOVE. LOL
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Old January 29, 2018, 07:18 PM   #10
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Well.... that does change things. My only advise is MOVE. LOL
I plan to, this place is expensive and crappy.

It's not solely that I want to skirt the NFA as the pistol brace being legal to fire shouldered has made dealing with the long, expensive, and dissuading process obsolete. I just ask because I want to know.

From the way the law is written, it sounds like it could be done. Heck, it sounds like if a manufacturer wanted, they could possibly make a replica of 11 or 14 gauge double barrel shotguns, but with 12 inch barrels and because the ammunition for those gauges isn't readily available and the firearm is a replica, it could be classified as an antique and be purchased without a background check.
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Old January 30, 2018, 08:09 AM   #11
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Skirting the law is never a good idea and especially when it comes to firearms. No legitimate manufacturer would do that. Too many liability concerns.
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Old January 30, 2018, 08:13 AM   #12
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A brand new antique?
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Old January 30, 2018, 09:19 AM   #13
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A brand new antique?
Law says "replicas of any firearm that uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade" is an antique.

If they haven't made 14 gauge ammunition in the US since the early 1900's, a replica 14 gauge shotgun would qualify.
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Old January 30, 2018, 02:06 PM   #14
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If you live in a state that is that restrictive, you'll have lots of legal bills proving you are correct.
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