13/4 and 2 in 12 gauge shells in pump shotgun

[Tinbucket]

I have run across advertisements for economical 1 3/4, and 2 in 12 gauge shotgun shells on the Internet occasionally.
In Europe where they have huge drive shoots it is not uncommon for a Shooter with one or even two gun bearers to shoot a thousand rounds during one of the events. Some of the shoots are for more than one day or over from one location to another thee next day.
I wondered how they could take the pounding of doubles and over and unders with even 2 3/4s like that .
Well they make a lot of shoguns chambered for these mini shells and even very light high dollar doubles and over unders.
I went looking for some of these shells today. Five, of the 1 3/4 shells for 11.99. About 60.00 a box for what can be bought for four on the Internet.
I passed.
The Asst Mgr said the could indeed be fired in the Remington 870 but the Mosseberg required an adapter for the shell lifter.
If they would work in my S&W M&P with nine round 3inch magazine, that would be sixteen shells.
I don't remember the number of buck or number seven or weight of charge. I should have brought pen and paper.
What I would use them for is skeet, in the 870 maybe, and for over unders for wife and myself later.
Anyone tried these shells in the pump shotguns or doubles and over unders with 2 3/4 or 3 in chambers?

[44 AMP]

I've seen some of the "mini shells" they do look so cute. Been a while, don't remember many particular, the ones I saw were from Mexico.

Since the 12ga headspaces on the rim, the only time chamber length is critical is when the shells are LONGER than the chamber. For example, 3" fired in a 2 3.4" chamber. The extra length means the crimp unfolds into the barrel where there is no clearance to allow for it, and pressures go UP!

I've never used any of the short shells, can't say how well they would work in a pump.

[Jim Watson]

The British tended to stick to 12 ga, a light or very light 12 instead of a 20.
The 2" 12 ga was one approach to a very light gun.
I don't know the current practice, but they stayed with 2 5/8" shells a lot longer than we did, and thought 1 1/16 oz of shot was enough where we would use 1 1/8 or 1 1/4.

[roadrocket]

i had a box of eley 2 inch no 6 shot at least 25 years old i used them last week in my hughes hammer gun of over a hundred years vintage and shot 16 pigeons over decoys for 17 cartridges they were a treat to shoot no recoil.

[FITASC]

In Europe where they have huge drive shoots it is not uncommon for a Shooter with one or even two gun bearers to shoot a thousand rounds during one of the events.

In Argentina shooting doves, it is not uncommon to shoot 1000+ rounds before lunch, and another 1000+ after lunch - and do so for several days. The English do not. The typical English shoot might have 6-8 "Guns" (as the folks are called doing the shooting) in a line. There will be several drives during the day where beaters will push the birds to the Guns. The Guns are typically down in a creek-like ravine or valley an the birds fly overhead at upwards of 75 yards. There MIGHT be a total of 800 birds driven per day for 8 guns (at roughly $75/each) but there is no way they are firing thousands of rounds. Their well-made, exquisitely balanced guns will usually weigh between 6.5 and 7#, no recoil pads and the loads will be 1oz to 1-1/4 of 6s or 5s. Some folks opt for O/Us like Berettas and those will have a slight recoil pad. Proper dress is required. Your loader, if he is worth his salt, will keep you and your matched pair shooting until the horn sounds.

As for "mini" shells, Aguila makes them.A lot of folks I know like them for their bullpup shotguns because of capacity, I found them to be overly expensive and the feeding unreliable. If you like a 6# 12 gauge, Arrietta made a 2" game gun that handles flawlessly and would be great for woodcock, snipe, or other small-medium birds over pointers. Many older guns had 2-1/2", 2-9/16' or 2-5/8" chambers, so the shorter shells would work great within their limitations.

[lamarw]

I guess it depends upon what your are hunting. I can just see ducks, geese, turkey, deer and pheasant laughing at you. Either that are suffering from light loads that injure and cause suffering. I have done a lot of dove hunting in the past and it is very sporting since the ones I have hunted are hard to hit. You are a good shot if you get 1 dove for 3 to 5 shells attempted. This was with 2 & 3/4" light loads.

So choose what fits the bill.

[wild cat mccane]

FITASC, please update your post with the Oxford comma just to keep up the mystic for us Americans (just joking)

[Tinbucket]

I strived to find a link to the story, or find the magazine I read the account from about the number 1000.
All I found was hunt in the hills of Spain for E55,000 for 2400 birds over three day and E23.00 per partridge ad for from four to eight Hunters.
I still have the magazine, I'm sure and will find it in time. It may be a year or two od article, with Author on the shoot as a guest of the estate. H interviewed and shot with one Gentleman in his, I don't remember late age. He had done this type of shoot every day of the season since very young.
It was a driven shoot on the estate and not mountains. I think he may have had two Bearers.The Author was amazed the old Gentleman kept hitting the Red Leg Partridge, while he had great difficulty getting gun on one.
I didn't read about the cost but if the ad I just read is close on price everyone of the shooters must be Multi Millionaires. Shells were an option, so as I read elsewhere, Shot Gunners have custom loads made up to fit thee chambers of their guns and game, and recoil etc
Gun chambers are not limited to one or two shell lengths, and 28 and 16 and other gauges including a few sizes I never heard of like 14.
even ten gauges and maybe eight, I'm not clear on that, with short shells to magnum lengths and various loads.
In Europe they are not limited in places to ten gauge limit. I read one article of custom and expensive 4 bores being in great demand, or at least enough, for several of the, Makers of Best Guns to be doing it. Prices I remember were at the least, were in the mid twenty thousand pound and very up range.
I found on one site some time ago Best and better guns , from the eighteen hundreds, to present, used but re proofed and in various conditions from average to as new, at good prices to be imported here, if desired.
About that time I had to repave the drive.

[FITASC]

Here's an offer from a guy I know:
https://bestwingshooting.com/wingsho...-october-2017/

He arranges hunts all over the world
$7,000 for 5 days, NOT including overages, VAT and tips. VAT can run some money as that is the national sales tax. Most Euro countries are in the ~20% range

[Dfariswheel]

Many pump shotguns will not work with the 1 3/4 inch or even 2 1/4 inch mini-shells.
As example, the 870 almost never works, but the Mossberg 500 often does even without an adapter.
The old John Browning designed Ithaca Model 37 and guns based on the Model 37 action like the DP12 and Kel-Tec KSG bullpup guns seem to work well with the mini shells.

You just have to do a thorough "road test" by shooting several boxes of the short ammo in a specific gun to see if they'll work.
The short shells virtually never work in any semi-auto gun, but work very well in doubles, singles, and over and under guns.

The most popular mini shells are the Aquila but for some reason they seem to have disappeared off the market.
Another good one is the Italian Noblesport 2 1/4 inch shells. These seem to have a better chance of working in a gun then the 1 3/4 inch type.

[TruthTellers]

The minishells Aguila makes are some of my favorite shotshell ammo mainly for the low recoil, but also the increased capacity in tube magazines. The issue with them in the past was would they work in your pump gun? Only you can find that out, but now with the adapter that company in Texas makes, they'll work 100% in Mossbergs.

I wanted to see how many of the minishells I could carry on a bandolier, so I figured being that they're so short, I put one on each side of the loop (effectively making it hold two shells per loop) and on a 50 round bandolier, I could conceivably carry 100 of these minishells.

Why I'd need to do that, idk, but it's a cool note worth noting.

Performance wise, I think the buckshot minishells, the one with a mix of 4 and 1 buck, are great for home defense. Again, low recoil, higher capcity, but also less penetration through the target and walls/furniture. Inside the home, you do not need the penetration of 00 buck. I know some yahoo's out there believe that anything other than the holy DOUBLE OUGHT you may as well be shooting a .22, but that's ignorance talking.

I haven't tried the slugs, but I think they'll work fine on deer and smaller. I wouldn't use them on anything bigger, they don't weight as much as standard length shotshell slugs. I have no interest in the birdshot load Aguila makes for the minishells.

My only hope right now is that somebody comes out with a press to reload these short shells and companies start producing hulls to load our own. That $1 a shot price on the Aguila's is astronomical compared to what other companies sell standard ammo for. Besides lower cost by handloading, I'd like to see how many pellets of buckshot I can cram in the little guys.

[FITASC]

A MEC Jr. could easily be adapted; the issue would be finding load data and possibly wads.