Failure to Extract

Don P · December 20, 2009, 07:00 PM

I had problems with failure to extract a hand full of times.
Gun-XD 9mm service model 3-400 rounds through it

reloads 125 gr. hard cast lead over 5.0 grs. Unique

The rounds that failed to eject I did not notice less recoil or noise.

Question, bad reloads? problems with the extractor? bad cases? ( worn )

It happened with all three mags and have not had a chance to get back to the range after cleaning the gun.

Any thoughts on this? Thanks in advance Don

80viking · December 20, 2009, 07:05 PM

sounds like your loads are right on the edge of being not powerful enough to operate the guns action

Don P · December 20, 2009, 07:10 PM

Possible. The loads operate my PX4 9mm and my 92FS and the weight of the powder is the starting grain recomended in my book.

Don P · December 21, 2009, 11:42 AM

Quote:

sounds like your loads are right on the edge of being not powerful enough to operate the guns action

I stand corrected. I did load on the light side at 5.0 grains. What I did last night was to pull the bullets on 32 rounds. Reload 16 with 5.4 grains of unique and load 16 with 4.1 grains of Titegroup. I'll see what Wednesday brings with the change in weights of powder. The 2 Beretta pistols must have lighter recoil springs than the XD.

**Unclenick** · December 21, 2009, 01:03 PM

What was the complete nature of the failure? If the extractor slipped off the case and the slide went all the way to the rear, then the next round off the mag would have its nose jammed into the base of the unextracted case. If that happened, then that's more likely the extractor or extractor tension (spring) on the brass.

If the next round was not stripped, it could be the load power or irregular charges. But some of the cases are extracting normally followed by feeding normally, if I understood your post correctly? That would not seem to indicate a light average load, either, but you could still have some charge irregularity in your loading? You might or might not feel the recoil difference. I don't have that particular gun, so I can't say. In a 1911 in .45 ACP light loads are pretty apparent to feel, though. The recoil gets mushy feeling because the slide doesn't make it all the way back to smack against the frame. I fired a S&W 645 one time that felt mushy with full loads, though. So it's an individual gun thing.

Don P · December 22, 2009, 12:33 PM

The next round did strip and jam the empty case into the slide. I would have to drop the mag and the slide would close and the empty would fall. Like I stated it was a intermittent problem happening on 3 different magazines. The loads functioned fine in my PX4 and 92FS. Both Beretta's must have lighter springs than the XD. I'll post my out come with regards to charge weight changes tomorrow. I am leaning toward a extractor problem, BUT tomorrow will tell the tale.

Ronbert · December 22, 2009, 12:37 PM

I had a load do exactly that in my Glock 22-with-9mm-conversion barrel.
A load with more powder worked just fine.

My Ruger P-85 would shoot either load. Now I have one ammo box marked 'Ruger only' until I use it up.

If the load works in other guns it seems likely it's insufficient energy in the load.

Don P · December 23, 2009, 04:30 PM

The reloads I did the other night seemed to work better. Still had a failure to extract with the Unique powder. Like I stated before, the lighter loads functioned fine in my Beretta 92FS and the PX4. All is good. Now I know the problem is not the extractor. The one mag with factory ammo worked just fine.

80viking · December 23, 2009, 06:36 PM

I have found that some guns don't work well with certain powders because of different pressure curves, for example I have a luger that will barely cycle with bullseye powder with even the hottest loads because it peaks too soon, switch to a slower powder, works fine with normal loads, one other thing you could try is a different hold while firing you gun, try the weaver stance, its a very solid platform to fire from it can make a big difference how a gun functions

December 20, 2009, 07:00 PM	#1
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	Failure to Extract I had problems with failure to extract a hand full of times. Gun-XD 9mm service model 3-400 rounds through it reloads 125 gr. hard cast lead over 5.0 grs. Unique The rounds that failed to eject I did not notice less recoil or noise. Question, bad reloads? problems with the extractor? bad cases? ( worn ) It happened with all three mags and have not had a chance to get back to the range after cleaning the gun. Any thoughts on this? Thanks in advance Don __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

December 20, 2009, 07:10 PM	#3
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	Possible. The loads operate my PX4 9mm and my 92FS and the weight of the powder is the starting grain recomended in my book. __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

December 21, 2009, 01:03 PM	#5
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	What was the complete nature of the failure? If the extractor slipped off the case and the slide went all the way to the rear, then the next round off the mag would have its nose jammed into the base of the unextracted case. If that happened, then that's more likely the extractor or extractor tension (spring) on the brass. If the next round was not stripped, it could be the load power or irregular charges. But some of the cases are extracting normally followed by feeding normally, if I understood your post correctly? That would not seem to indicate a light average load, either, but you could still have some charge irregularity in your loading? You might or might not feel the recoil difference. I don't have that particular gun, so I can't say. In a 1911 in .45 ACP light loads are pretty apparent to feel, though. The recoil gets mushy feeling because the slide doesn't make it all the way back to smack against the frame. I fired a S&W 645 one time that felt mushy with full loads, though. So it's an individual gun thing. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

December 22, 2009, 12:33 PM	#6
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	The next round did strip and jam the empty case into the slide. I would have to drop the mag and the slide would close and the empty would fall. Like I stated it was a intermittent problem happening on 3 different magazines. The loads functioned fine in my PX4 and 92FS. Both Beretta's must have lighter springs than the XD. I'll post my out come with regards to charge weight changes tomorrow. I am leaning toward a extractor problem, BUT tomorrow will tell the tale. __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

December 23, 2009, 04:30 PM	#8
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	The reloads I did the other night seemed to work better. Still had a failure to extract with the Unique powder. Like I stated before, the lighter loads functioned fine in my Beretta 92FS and the PX4. All is good. Now I know the problem is not the extractor. The one mag with factory ammo worked just fine. __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

December 20, 2009, 07:05 PM	#2
80viking Senior Member Join Date: December 8, 2009 Location: The Peoples Republic of Massac Posts: 333	sounds like your loads are right on the edge of being not powerful enough to operate the guns action

December 22, 2009, 12:37 PM	#7
Ronbert Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2009 Location: Ft. Collins, CO. Posts: 398	I had a load do exactly that in my Glock 22-with-9mm-conversion barrel. A load with more powder worked just fine. My Ruger P-85 would shoot either load. Now I have one ammo box marked 'Ruger only' until I use it up. If the load works in other guns it seems likely it's insufficient energy in the load.

December 23, 2009, 06:36 PM	#9
80viking Senior Member Join Date: December 8, 2009 Location: The Peoples Republic of Massac Posts: 333	I have found that some guns don't work well with certain powders because of different pressure curves, for example I have a luger that will barely cycle with bullseye powder with even the hottest loads because it peaks too soon, switch to a slower powder, works fine with normal loads, one other thing you could try is a different hold while firing you gun, try the weaver stance, its a very solid platform to fire from it can make a big difference how a gun functions