Some advice requested: shady subject at LEO house

[shurshot]

Mehavey covered it, K frame model 19 SW . 357 revolver loaded with hot .38's.

[WyMark]

Seems like the simplest, cheapest and most obvious answer would be to keep one in the chamber of the Shield. Would only need to slingshot it on a reload but that doesn't take near as much effort.

And, adrenaline is a magical elixir. Bet she'd rack the slide without even realizing it when she needs to.

[K_Mac]

WyMark just keeping a round chambered is good advice for a self-defense pistol. That is not a good answer for someone who is unable to rack the slide though. Any failure that could normally be corrected by racking the slide would render the pistol useless. While failures with a proven pistol and quality ammo are unlikely, the consequences in a home invasion situation are unthinkable. There are other, better options available to the OP.

There are no magic elixirs, and counting on adrenaline to enable her do something she is not confident and trained to do is dangerous and foolish in my opinion.

[Don P]

Right, so I said all of that to say this. It makes me nervous that she can't manipulate the slide every time on her Shield or any semiauto for that matter

Teaching her the technique needed for folks who have limited hand strength would be a start. If that does not help its time for a revolver

[reynolds357]

She can rack the slide unless something is screwed with the pistol. Put 4 fingers on one side of slide, thumb and palm on the other side, strong hand on the grip. Push with strong hand, pull with weak hand.

[colbad]

Coming from a LE background as well, I would tell you to FIRST consider setting up motion sensor spot lights and cameras that record to help you figure out what is going on and ID your problem. This could be pretty important should the matter end up in a shooting.


As far as weapon, if she can't work it with absolute proficiency, get one that she can. I gave my wife a 5 shot SW with wad cutters. Guaranteed to shoot every time and no worry about slide, limp wrist, safety or clambering rounds. The wad cutters are probably as effective in a short barrel as any and she can control shots without fear.

[cannonfire]

Thanks again for everybody's responses. It means a lot when people come together to help each other solve a problem. Much appreciated.

Here's the update. Spoke to a Sgt from the local police, and they are patroling my neighborhood more and seem to be taking it pretty seriously. Perfect.

I'm work with her racking the slides and her technique, but in the meantime, I went out a purchased a SB brace for my SP5k and now she has that next to her night stand and bought her a kydex holster so she can carry her shield around the house. She is comfortable with the SP5k and its very compact.

Now here is the possibly good news... last night it happened again. Fiance was in bed watching tv when somebody knocked on the front door. She immediately looked out the bedroom window and saw what she thought was a teenager sprinting from my front door and down the street. So it appears it is just a kid in the neighborhood that has been doing this. But this has definitely been a wake up call as far as my home security and her defense.

I want to thank everybody again for the help and advise. Pax, thank you so much for that website! It is extremely helpful and she loves it. Thank you. Obviously this isn't quite over yet as far as training and home security but I'm breathing a little easier knowing it is a neighborhood kid, and obviously doesn't mean it can't/won't escalate.

Btw... She has decided she wants to build her own AR. And of course she found the only CZ P10c in my neck of the woods. And yes she bought it... and i thought we were shopping for her... lol

[HiBC]

Looking back on this thread,the best suggestion I made was to have PAX weigh in.After that,I'm just distracting noise.Pax has it.
But another thought has occurred,and others have mentioned it.

I agree being prepared for the worst possible moment,which would be the bad guy in the house.
If she has to shoot the guy,the ONLY good thing about that,is that she survives.(That IS good)
DO pick out the right gun,do train and prepare,do be ready. How long does that take? Skills take time.

He is knocking on the doors. That puts him standing on a spot. Predictable.

Pick up a Cabelas catalogue and browse the deer trail cameras. High res,motion activated,and some of them interface with a smartphone. Prices? Probably $100 to $300. You can do it NOW.(OK,two days for shipping)

If your LEO's can have an ID of the guy and photo evidence of him being there,they can clean him up.

Once again,for her to have to actually confront this guy in your home and put him down is far from the best outcome. I say that while fully supporting her being armed and dangerous.

[colbad]

If its a kid I would not discount the threat. Depending on your neighborhood and if they know you are a cop, could be some gang ignition or BLM point being made. Hopefully local patrol will catch and all can have a old school private "talk" with the individual......

[AndyWest]

cannonfire, at the risk of sounding insensitive - in all these incidents, have you personally seen the suspicious individual on your property or heard knocks on your windows/doors?

[cannonfire]

^^^ I know where you're getting at lol... I have witnessed it once and I've also had one of the neighborhood kids act out in front of his friends, yelling " *blank* 12" repeatedly. I walked to my mailbox and smiled and he hauled it down the street. I do believe it happens when they see my patrol car not in the driveway (I know, its usually in the garage but i had to take the motorcycle apart, and its in pieces, so that has to get cleaned up to get the patrol car in the garage).

I do trust her that this occurring while I'm away. We had another incident that occurred while I was on the phone with her and needless to say the curiosity and then the terror seemed real. I deal with crazy/mentally ill/paranoid people on the daily and though yes, I am biased, she isn't claiming people are crawling through locked windows lol. But the thought of her maybe imagining things has gone through my head but I don't believe that is the case.


Taking people's advise (this is a gun board so I will keep it to firearms and training) she now carries her Shield in a holster around the house when I'm not home and has a spare mag with her also (loaded with 124 grain HST). After practicing techniques, she is able to manipulate the slide enough to load and unload a round. She's having a mental issue (hold your jokes) where she stops pushing up on the slide stop while racking the slide, so she can't get it to lock open. But if an empty mag is inserted, she can pull it back far enough to lock it open when the empty mag engages the slide stop. There is also a loaded SP5k in the bedroom as well.

Thanks again for everybody's comments and concerns. It does mean a lot that people show their concern. Obviously training is never complete but she has vastly improved with everyone's recommendations. Thanks again.

[Brit]

The Kel-tec PMR 30 might be another option in the same concept with the added plus of 30 rounds of .22 magnum ammo.

I have one of those! Real easy to rack the slide, but the real advantage, it is so light! And 30 rounds of .22 mag!

My Wife can rack the slide on our Glock 42 and loves the recoil of the .380 round. And no, I can not get her to carry it, she has a Carry License.

Dead give away, the marked vehicle in the drive!

[std7mag]

Personally i wouldn't do the AR route for home defense. Unless your protecting from the zombie apocolypse or have a ranch with coyotes.

Aside from a dog the sound of a slide being racked on a pump shotgun is universally known as "you picked the wrong place"!!
Maybe look at a 410 for her. Still as deadly as a 12 ga, just not as many pellets.

My wife has issues with grip size and racking a semi auto also.
After much experimenting we picked up a Walther PPS M2 for her.
At 15 yards shes hitting one of those swinging targets that are meant for 22's.

[Theohazard]

Originally Posted by std7mag

Personally i wouldn't do the AR route for home defense.

Why? An AR-15 is a superior home-defense weapon to a shotgun in almost every way. Here’s why:

-Due to NFA restrictions, an AR-15 will almost always be shorter and more compact than a shotgun.
-An AR-15 has much less recoil.
-Engaging multiple targets is faster and easier with an AR-15.
-Follow-up shots are much faster and easier with an AR-15.
-With proper defensive ammo, an AR will penetrate FAR less through walls than almost any defensive shotgun or handgun load.
-An AR-15 has a much higher capacity.
-An AR-15 is much easier and faster to reload.
-The average AR is more reliable than the average semi-auto shotgun. And the AR-15 will usually be more reliable than even a pump shotgun unless the shooter is well-trained and pumps the shotgun properly each time (I'm fairly proficient with the 870 and 590, but I've owned both and I've had more stoppages with those two than I've ever had with any AR I've owned).

I like the 870 and 590 a lot, but I use an AR-15 for primary bedroom home defense. My wife finds a pump shotgun to be much more difficult and complicated to use than the AR, and she can't stand the recoil. Also, I'm worried about over-penetration through walls, and my 62 gr. Hornady TAP .223 loads will penetrate FAR less through walls than any kind of buckshot.

And if the sound of a pump shotgun is what you're looking for, the sound of a round being racked into the chamber of a rifle isn't exactly welcoming either. But I don't like that tactic; it either means you didn't have a round chambered already or you're ejecting a live round onto the ground and losing up to 20% of your ammo. Both are bad ideas. And don't forget that making that sound gives your position away, too.

There's nothing wrong with using a shotgun for home defense, but I think a semi-auto rifle in .223 is easier to use, more effective (especially against multiple attackers), and also safer for innocent bystanders because of far less penetration through walls.

[std7mag]

Why not just use a lever action 30-30?

What is a "defensive" shotgun load?
Mine is loaded with Federal 6 shot.

My shotgun doesn't have the tendancy to jam.

[jimbob86]

Why not just use a lever action 30-30?

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Because shooting holes through the neighbors' houses is not neighborly.

What is a "defensive" shotgun load?

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Ask Clint Smith.

Mine is loaded with Federal 6 shot.

Don't tell him that ..... he pulls no punches. Somebody's feeling will get hurt.

My shotgun doesn't have the tendancy to jam.

None of my guns have a tendency to jam ..... a gun that tends to jam is a liability, not an asset.

A short handy 5.56x45 carbine with frangible ammo ( 50gr V-max or similar) can't be beat for home defense..... especially if one has a suppressor on it- no flash and your hearing will not suffer as much if you have to use it.

[Theohazard]

Originally Posted by std7mag

Why not just use a lever action 30-30?

Because for the purposes of home defense, it’s inferior in every single way to an AR-15 (except maybe price).

Originally Posted by std7mag

My shotgun doesn't have the tendancy to jam.

Mine don’t ether. Most don’t. But unless the shooter is very proficient with it, they’re going to short-stroke a pump shotgun under stress more often than they’d experience stoppages in a halfway-decent AR-15

Look, use what you want for home defense. A shotgun is a good choice and a lever action isn’t a bad choice either. But anyone who claims that an AR-15 isn’t a good choice for a home-defense long gun doesn’t know what they’re talking about.

[K_Mac]

I think a short barreled, suppressed AR in 5.56 x 45 is the perfect home defense weapon. Unfortunately in Illinois that is illegal, so a 16" carbine with a collapsible stock is the best alternative. My first choice is always a pistol because of convenience, but a carbine is a much better choice. I keep an 18" 12 gauge pump close at hand as well, but length, weight, and recoil make it a "last stand" weapon for me, and a no-go for my wife.

[buck460XVR]

I have several "female shooters" in my household, plus their "female" shooting friends. Most of them do well and feel comfortable using my 1911s(while they don't/can't always rack the slide, they are comfortable with them in condition 1) and my L-frame revolvers. I doubt very much that a most females within the scenario of a SD/HD situation would have to be overly concern with a reload, when starting out with a handgun capacity of 7-8 rounds. Any of them that would survive a shootout confrontation long enough and the completion of a speed reload, could probably rack the slide somehow. There's a lot more to proper SD/HD technique/procedures than throwing lead. Having a safe room, with a phone or alternate egress, barricading, etc. If the BGs have to come thru a narrow entrance, one at a time, to get to her, one shot a piece would be enough.

The last few years quality solar powered lighting at very affordable costs have become prevalent. I have one of those units that come on at dusk and last all night on dim on every corner of my house. If they detect movement they go to bright. From inside my house I can see when they go to bright. So far, the only thing that has set them off to bright is the neighbors cats/dogs and the occasional rabbit. Odds are they would spook anyone sneaking around the house at night on top of giving me a heads up.

For less than the price of a new gun, my oldest just bought a set of 4 motion activated HD security cameras that connect to his phone. They alert him whenever they are activated while allowing him to see what/who is there. He uses them at his cabin which is located about 40 miles away after having a rash of break-ins and vandalizings. Come to find out, it was the neighbor's kid doing most of it, even tho he was supposedly "keeping an eye on the place" for us. My son discretely placed them so they were inconspicuous and the neighbor kid denied everything until he was shown the videos.

[Tom-R2]

A year ago, we were shopping for a pistol for my wife. She is 67 and had difficulties with my smaller 9mm pistol slides, and could hardly budge the 1911 slide. We went to our local gun store and she tried several pistols. She did the best with the Sig P320, so we got the compact. We also picked up the sub-compact frame. She has about 900-1000 rounds downrange over the last year and has become better at manipulating the slide. Best of luck, as a retired LEO, I've had similar issues over the years with harassment. Sicne retirement, haven't had issues, but I remain prepared as best as I can.

[pax]

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cannonfire,

She's having a mental issue (hold your jokes) where she stops pushing up on the slide stop while racking the slide, so she can't get it to lock open. But if an empty mag is inserted, she can pull it back far enough to lock it open when the empty mag engages the slide stop.

There's a way past this. Show her how little pressure the slide stop really takes. All she has to do is find the place that puts just a tiny bit of upward pressure on the slide stop and then keep her thumb on that spot -- not "push", not "hold", not "press" -- just keep her thumb right there while she racks the slide as usual.

A lot of times, what happens is that people feel as though they need to push in, or press hard, or do something different with the slide stop. They really don't. Just find the magic spot and keep your thumb on it while racking the slide exactly as they normally would.

As you say, it's very much a mental hurdle. Normal one. Always fun to watch the light bulb suddenly go on for that one!

pax

[pax]

Addendum:

To show her how little pressure the slide stop really takes, hold the gun yourself with the slide back and have her toggle the slide stop while you're holding the action open. It's really loose and light, can just be barely flicked and it will move.

Help her notice that it does not click or snick or snap into place. It just wiggles a little.

Then show her how far the slide can move back after the stop has engaged. And show her how that makes the slide stop drop out of position. Explain to her her how it is that she might keep pushing harder and harder on the lock, never feel it get into place and get frustrated that she didn't feel it but might push on it as hard as she can until she's SURE it HAS TO HAVE gone into place, but the slide didn't lock and how could that be?

Help her understand what's happening: the slide is locking in place, briefly, but she isn't feeling it happen. She she keeps trying to do the job after it was already done (by moving the slide even more!) and that undoes her hard work.

This often happens with newbies and it's usually because they were expecting to feel the lock engage or snick or clip into place and it just doesn't do that. Because they expect to feel the sensation of something snapping into position, when that does not happen, they keep pulling back on the slide and undo what they've already done.

So teach her to rack the slide and let go of the slide.

Then teach her to put her thumb on the magic spot, then rack the slide (and let go of the slide) while keeping her thumb on that spot.

That usually does it.

pax

[drobs]

Have the fiance watch the following videos and practice the techniques.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM0kl4PrINs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al2rMXpw6c0

Really no reason she shouldn't be able to rack that pistol with some practice.

Edited to add, The S&W Shield has a really stiff slide release. I have one and it really takes a lot of force to get the slide lock to release w/o the mag in place. With an empty mad in place - takes 2 hands / 2 thumbs.

Far easier to the sling shot the slide than use the slide release - on a loaded magazine.

I hate to say this cuz I'll sound like a Glock fanboy - but GLOCK. I have no experience with the single stacks Glocks but the 26/27, 19/23, 17/22, and 30/21 are far easier to manipulate.

My advice for her, having the gun in front of me, ignore the slide release altogether. Pretend it's not there. With a loaded mag - sling shot that gun. Empty mag, release the mag, sling shot the slide, push the empty mag back into the gun.

[CWO4USCGRET]

The advice given, to use both hands to push-pull the gun and slide is good advice. Practice with an unloaded gun until she’s got it down pat.

From a home security standpoint I have installed the “Blink” camera system; a wireless Wi-fi system. When armed the camera will detect motion, save a 5 second video clip (repeating that step when motion is still detected) I’ve been able to check my cameras while I’ve been in South America visiting with the wife’s family.

Yet another home defense option is one of the New Mossberg or Remington short barreled Firearms. I have the Mossberg Shockwave in 20 Gauge; loaded with #4 buckshot. I chose the 20 Gauge; my wife is capable of working the action. Nothing says (to a bad guy) oh hell I am in trouble when he or she hears the pump shotgun action being cycled!



The BATFE has “ruled” that these shotguns are (1) Firearms and (2) are not NFA Firearms! I really enjoy shooting mine!

[peacefulgary]

Here's something I recently recently read:

Springfield Armory claims the XD-E 9mm is easier to rack than similar pistols.
From SA's website:

The Low Effort Slide (L.E.S.) requires 27% less effort to manipulate compared to striker-fired handguns in the same class.

Maybe she could try one out at a local gun store?



BTW, long guns (rifle or shotgun) are NOT good home defense weapons.
I mean they're great IF you know you are about to be attacked.
Or in the event of a war.
Or a zombie apocalypse.

But criminals seldom tell you when they plan to attack.
They strike when you least expect.

The handgun is the gun you're going to have on you when you really need it.
The long gun will most likely be in the other room, or in the safe, or under the bed, or in the gun cabinet, or in the closet, etc...when you really need it.


Think about it:

You go to check the mail-box...are you going to have your rifle or shotgun with you?

You take the dog out for a walk, or for than last pee of the night...are you going to have your rifle or shotgun with you?

You are working in the garage on your car or truck or bike...are you going to have your rifle or shotgun by your side?

You're watching TV and you have to use the bathroom.
While in the bathroom you hear glass breaking, or a door being forced.
Did you bring your rifle or shotgun to the bathroom with you?

Your watching TV and you get hungry.
You go to the kitchen to make yourself a snack.
Did you bring your rifle or shotgun with you to the kitchen?

You're on the deck or porch sipping a cold drink with some friends...do you have your rifle or shotgun by your side?

You were watering your lawn and forgot to shut the water off.
Do you take your rifle or shotgun outside with you to shut the water off?

You're mowing the lawn.
Are you carrying your rifle or shotgun with you?

You're taking the garbage out, or taking to the garbage can to the end of the driveway...do you have your rifle or shotgun with you?




I'm sure you get my point....
You can always have a handgun on your side or in your pocket.
The long gun will NOT be with you when you really need it.





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