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Old September 17, 2019, 09:38 AM   #1
Lohman446
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Storage of ammo (truck box)

I have a desire to store a couple hundred rounds of 10MM defensive ammunition in my truck box. Specifically Underwood ammo if it matters.

This will be in a plastic box that mounts inside the bed to the rear fender of the truck. Ammo will be rotated about twice a year so it needs to survive temperature from near 100 to about 20 degrees below zero. Moisture (in a box under a cover) will be minimal but not zero. There are various other things in this box all stored in separate dry bags (jumper cables, tow chain, ratchet straps, ball mount).

Size matters and frankly if they were two separate containers of 100 each it would be fine.

Thoughts?
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Old September 17, 2019, 10:05 AM   #2
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Just get an old ammo box. I'd suggest a .50 caliber box with that much ammo. Paint it a nice color.

They sell for $7 at the pawn shop around here.
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Old September 17, 2019, 10:07 AM   #3
Lohman446
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Bigger than I would like - considered but too big. I would decrease amount of carried ammo if I had to go that big and decrease is an option.
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Old September 17, 2019, 10:08 AM   #4
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I wouldn't worry about it any more than the other stuff being kept in the box. If size is a concern I'd just put the ammo boxes in a gallon ziplock bag to keep everything together, otherwise it'd be hard to beat an ammo box. but that might be too big. If you want to maximize space you could take the ammo out of the boxes and double bag it in Ziplock bags.

The ammo should survive without any issue for 6 months. And if there are any problems you should find that out in fairly quickly if you are cycling through the ammo.
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Old September 17, 2019, 10:17 AM   #5
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The 5.56 box is a bit smaller. Keep in mind ammo boxes are designed to store ammo. If they have a good seal the ammo will keep a lifetime.
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Old September 17, 2019, 10:19 AM   #6
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SAMMI has done testing which shows that pressures do change when powder is exposed to high temperatures. I don't have the link readily available, however this was discussed in another thread here before.

That said, if you're rotating the ammo on a regular basis as described you'll be fine. I do the same. Ideally store in an metal ammo box to protect against moisture and crushing, or some other dry box.

Underwood is some very good ammo.
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Old September 17, 2019, 12:11 PM   #7
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I understand the desire to have a supply "with you" but there are some things to consider, besides the temperature variations.

How is the ammo going to be packed? Loose in the box? in hard plastic trays? Foam trays? What kind of vibration is it going to be subject to??

Does your truck drive off of city streets? A little? A lot??

Look how the ammo comes packed when new, that packaging is designed to protect it from the NORMAL vibration and shocks of shipping.

IF its in the rear fender of your pickup, it can be subject to a lot more "rattling around" than regular commercial shipping.

Vibration can, in extreme cases, actually "grind" the powder granules and could change their behavior when fired. Repeated shocks, could change the bullet seating depth. (In, or Out) Bullet "setback" doesn't ONLY happen during feeding....(though it is rare outside the gun)

How many miles (thousands of miles?) of bouncing around inside the box is that ammo going to endure before you use it??

Ammo tends to survive best in the same conditions we do, not too hot, not too cold, and not too shaken up. Vibration is one of the reasons military ammo uses crimped bullets and primers, AND some kind of sealant.

I left a loaded plastic (MTM) ammo box under a car seat by mistake for a couple months. A couple thousand miles of driving, but all on the pavement. The rounds in the box all had bright "rings" on the brass, from rattling against the plastic of their individual holes. No harm to the ammo, just a bright spot (ring) on the cases.

Now, that's not 6 months in the back of a pickup, driving how many miles over what? pavement. dirt roads? off road?? PROBABLY nothing bad will happen to your ammo, but is that something you want to risk, with "defensive ammo"?

Just some things to consider..
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Old September 17, 2019, 12:47 PM   #8
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Those are valid points.

I have a safe hard mounted in my truck. I keep a G29 holstered, a couple ten round magazines, and one 15 rounder in it. That is all that is going to fit in there. I don't want this rattling around in the cab of my truck because extra stuff there bothers me. But having an extra hundred rounds (or for that matter 30) wouldn't hurt my feelings.

What about stored in 15 round magazines inside a heavy duty "dry bag" used for canoeing and backpacking. While this would not solve all of the issues you mention it would pretty tightly pack it and 45 rounds would not take up much space.

The truck is not abused off-road but its not a pavement queen either. And there is the snowplow that gets attached in the winter months.
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Old September 17, 2019, 01:27 PM   #9
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"...Paint it a nice color..." Olive drab is a nice colour. snicker. However, ammo in ammo cans still needs to be stored in cool, dry, conditions. The cans are air and water tight, but that won't stop condensation forming. $7 for a .50 cal can is dirt cheap though. .50 cal ammo cans are handy things too.
What are you thinking you need a couple hundred rounds of spare "defensive" ammo plus 35 rounds of 'ready ammo' to defend against? What happens if your truck is stolen? Just curious. You may have some explaining to do if you become the victim of a tragedy or crime. Doubt your insurance will cover you either.
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Old September 17, 2019, 01:41 PM   #10
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I travel through some fairly rural areas and if I walk home its going to be a healthy walk and in the winter it will be through the dark in some adverse conditions. In paintball they talk about "accuracy by volume" With pistol cartridges I believe in "effectiveness by volume" 45 rounds is a lot but I never want to be in a position where I have to think about how many rounds I should fire at a bear or a cougar because I might run out.

A locked safe secured to the vehicle more than meets state requirements for securing a firearm.
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Old September 17, 2019, 06:07 PM   #11
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Maybe a .30 ammo can would be better for 200rds of 10mm? Significantly smaller than a 50cal can.
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Old September 17, 2019, 10:33 PM   #12
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Maybe a .30 ammo can would be better for 200rds of 10mm? Significantly smaller than a 50cal can.
Those are only $6 around here. I bought a dozen last week.
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Old September 18, 2019, 12:15 PM   #13
mr bolo
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I would skip the whole idea of leaving ammo in a hot box for long periods

just carry a small "bug out bag" with spare ammo, mags, energy bars, flash light, etc

and take it with you when needed, no need to store it in the vehicle

then if your driving a different vehicle that day, just grab your little "bug out bag"
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Old September 18, 2019, 01:29 PM   #14
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Where is Quadling Country? A .50 cal can runs $30Cdn here. Even Midway wants $12.99. And that's if they have any. snicker.
"...In paintball..." That doesn't apply to real firearms.
The term "accuracy by volume" is called 'spray and pray' in the real world. It leads to a great deal of missing.
It does not apply to a bear or a cougar either. Kitty tends to come from above and behind. You'd never see or hear Kitty coming. You running just excites Kitty too. Triggers his "FOOD!" instinct.
If Yogi is within 100 yards, assuming he's not in bed in winter, you will never be fast enough with any handgun. Yogi can cover 100 yards in less than 6 seconds.
In any case, having hundreds of rounds or even just 45, won't make the least bit of difference.
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Old September 18, 2019, 02:09 PM   #15
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Where is Quadling Country?
In the South where red (and white) is proudly the color for nearly everyone. We live close to Rigmarole Town where the military has auctions of all kinds of stuff. The local pawn shop buys it by the truckload and then sells it cheap instead of getting in to the on line business thing.

Sure it scratch and dent with a little rust but nothing a rattle can can't fix.
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Old September 18, 2019, 02:46 PM   #16
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"...In paintball..." That doesn't apply to real firearms.
The term "accuracy by volume" is called 'spray and pray' in the real world. It leads to a great deal of missing
Re-read the statement you are criticizing on that.

Modern handgun philosophy does indeed preach "effectiveness by volume" because it teaches that you shoot until the threat stops. In fact there has been a movement towards 9MM specifically because recoil forces (compared to .40 and .45) allow quicker follow-up shots as well as more ammunition. There is a distinction that I made between "accuracy by volume" and "effectiveness by volume" in that effectiveness with a handgun is most likely to be achieved through volume even if every shot hits especially if we are discussing stopping an animal such as a bear or a cougar.
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Old September 19, 2019, 12:40 PM   #17
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unlike humans, who might be impressed by volume of fire and seek cover or go elsewhere, and who are often mightily impressed by any hit, animals generally aren't.

They aren't much impressed by the size of your gun, or how fast you can shoot it, and often aren't much impressed by hits that aren't immediately vital.

You may be able to do a mag dump and shoot to slide lock before that cougar gets to you, but if none of those rounds hits one of the right spots, you can be cat chow. This is one of those times when close DOESN'T count.

Having grown up in the era when semi auto pistols shot only FMJ ammo (unless you handloaded) I always figured the 9mm held more rounds because you needed them....

Never had to stop a bear or a big cat, but have had to shoot a couple dogs "at speed" over the years. No where NEAR as easy as people make it out to be.
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Old September 20, 2019, 05:24 PM   #18
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Dogs are actually really tough. I saw one take two 7.62X39 rounds broadside and a load of #00 to the chest and neck area and still run off never to be seen again. It was most likely rabid but such shots would have easily felled most men.
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Old September 21, 2019, 08:28 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr bolo View Post
I would skip the whole idea of leaving ammo in a hot box for long periods
just carry a small "bug out bag" with spare ammo, mags, energy bars, flash light, etc
and take it with you when needed, no need to store it in the vehicle
then if your driving a different vehicle that day, just grab your little "bug out bag"
I have stored ammo in my truck box for a year and it shoots just fine. Probably gets hotter than 100° but definately not as cold as -20°F. Even rimfire ammo shoots just fine. I keep it in my get-home bag (GHB), so it stays in the truck box at all times. If you're rotating out twice a year, you are good to go, OP.
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Old September 21, 2019, 08:52 AM   #20
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For a while I was carrying 9mm, 45ACP, and 5.56mm ammos in the truck, but after researching what heat and vibration can to do to the powder, I quit it. All I have now is the 2 extra 9mm Kahr mags I carry in the console, which I rotate every 6 months because of exposure to heat and vibration.

For the OP's purpose, I guess if he feels the need... OK. I would carry the rounds in foam trays and cardboard boxes (factory packaging) stored in a .30 cal ammo can or similar. Foam trays minimize the vibration, and eliminate the brass 'ring' it would otherwise see in plastic boxes. When I take ammos from TX to NV when I travel, even in the short 1300mi I drive, the ammo has ringed by the time I get there (in plastic boxes.) I would religiously swap that ammo out every 6-months and burn it up as training ammos or such.

As someone mentioned, I do have a BOB ready to go with all the stuff I travel with. Depending on what I'm taking with me as far as firearms, I can add or take out loaded ammos, or extra ammo in boxes. Fairly simple system, and I can take it in anywhere I need too.
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Old September 21, 2019, 09:08 PM   #21
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I took 100 rounds of each pistol rounds we carry and put in a vacuum seal foodsaver bag and throw it in a heavy duty bag and have it in the trunk. It's for storage, I plan on having a couple mags on me at any given time. One vacuum bag will still fit in a side pocket of my cargo shorts if it's summer. After a year or so, I can always seal up another fresh 100 rounds and take the 'old' ones out to the range. I realize opening the trunk and grabbing the bag or opening the bag and pulling out a vacuum bag of rounds takes time, but it's a convenient way of having a compact decent amount of rounds available. I've not sealed up 223 or 7.62 rounds, but I would think they could be done the same way. You could always experiment with the number of rounds in a pack. In a crisis, which is what you're carrying that many rounds for, there isn't much reason to have an exact amount to fill your magazines x-number of times, you need to plan on what you think you may need. Since I have 4 different round possibilities, it's easier but heavier, to just grab the whole bag. That will give me rounds I can't use, but at least one pack of rounds I can. And if my wife is with me, she can use rounds for her pistol, and I generally have a different caliber, so we would have access to 100 extra rounds each. One of my packs is 40S&W, which is the round I least carry, if we encounter a law enforcement officer in a really bad situation, they may be able to use the 40s if need be.
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