why reload when the price of ammo is so cheap? - Page 2

beemerb · August 14, 2000, 08:08 PM

I reload because it is cheaper for my handguns and for softnose for my rifles.I shoot cast in handguns and mostly 150 gr hornady in 308.
I do not buy new brass.I can buy once fired for a nickel a round so why buy new?
45 ACP cost about 6 cents to load-38 and 357 at about 5 cents.
308 banging ammo is surplus.At 12.9 cants a round you can't load ammo.My soft nose cost me about 20 cents which is less then half of commercal.
Saveing are great and you can tailer loads to what you want.
I use a dillon 550B and in my opinion it is the best on the market for the money.Had so little for problems with it and what I did have where my fault.Dillon still fixed it for nothing.Can't beat that deal.
Thats my .02

------------------
Bob--- Age and deceit will overcome youth and speed.
I'm old and deceitful.

imperative · July 10, 2002, 02:51 AM

paratrooper,
My gun club back in school reloaded a lot of .223, so I guess it just depends.

ZeusOne · July 10, 2002, 12:59 PM

Hi, my name is ZeusOne and I am a reloader - because I enjoy reloading!

From the beginning, I've tracked my reloading costs (equipment, components, powder, etc.) in a customized spreadsheet. Bottom line is that you CAN save money - or make up the difference by shooting more often. Either way, it's a win-win scenario.

Yes, there are exceptions to the above. My 7.62x39 is strictly store-bought, cause it's cheaper. Surplus 8MM and 7.62x54 is available commercially for cheap also. But allot of this stuff is corrosive, and all of it is dirty. But then, it's plinking ammo so who cares?

Rolling your own can become a part of the total shooting sports experience. Whether it's shooting consistent ragged hole groups at the range, or bringing home game from the field, for me it's just somehow better with homemade ammo.

nyetter · July 10, 2002, 03:15 PM

If you shoot only 9mm, you probably don't need to reload. If you shoot .45 or .357, you absolutely need to.

You can get a case of 9mm for about $120 out the door. I can load a case of 9mm for about $80 all told. Even that is a 33% savings. With .45 and .357 it's more like 50% or 60% ($100 versus $220).

If you shoot .38, handloading is the only reasonable way to get decent target ammo (ie: 148gr wadcutters loaded super-light).

Guy B. Meredith · July 11, 2002, 08:36 PM

No one makes ammo as pretty as mine. Shoots okay, too, and I can fine tune at will.

What I put together in .38 sp for about $3.80 per 50 used to cost me $7.75 per 50 in quantities of 500 and would cost at least $15 per 50 off the shelf.

444 · July 11, 2002, 09:35 PM

This has been covered so many times that doing a search for this topic would be like doing a search on google for the topic of "Windows".

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

**Mal H** · July 11, 2002, 10:11 PM

... In fact, I think a thread on this very subject was started back in August, 2000.

nyetter · July 11, 2002, 11:41 PM

I'm curious as to others' methods for computing the cost of their reloads. I get the sinking suspicion that many aren't counting the cost of brass, and some others aren't counting the cost of powder.

Sometimes this is fairly justified. 9mm brass is so cheap I could afford to just use it once. And my wadcutter loads only use 2.8gr of Bullseye, which works out to $6.40/1000.

However, it's certainly not always true. For example, if you're loading your .45 hardball with Blue Dot, that's costing you $18+ per 1000. And even once-fired 45 brass is expensive (about 4 times 9mm)!

When I figure my costs, I'm sure to count powder, and I usually amortize brass costs across an expected number of uses.

Whenever I see someone brag of a cost in the $2 a box range, I start wondering about their math

444 · July 12, 2002, 06:51 AM

Free brass is easy to come by. There are people litterally throwing it away all the time. The cost of powder is minimal (in handguns) to begin with, and even less when you buy in quantity. I regularly use mil-surp powder both in rifle and pistol. I also buy my faviorite powders in 8 pound kegs.
I figure the cost of powder in my estimations, but the cost of powder and brass are minimal.

Want a good reason to reload ? Tomorrow there is a Vintage Military Bolt Action Rifle match that I want to shoot in. I am going to use my No. 1 Mk. III Enfield in .303 British. I didn't have any ammo loaded and didn't really feel like loading any, so I hit the local gun shops. No .303 ammo to be found. So, instead of just throwing in the towel, I went home and loaded it. I am not limited to what the local dealers think I need, or what they are willing to put their inventory money into. I can decide for myself. If I decide to shoot my Moisin Nagant next month at the match, I can use the same bullets, the same powder, and the same primers to load 7.62x54R that I used to load .303 Brit; just put it in a different case. Whether my local dealer decides to stock it is up to him; I got mine.

stellarpod · July 12, 2002, 08:14 AM

The .44 Mag brass I use for my extremely low-power cowboy loads can be used indefinetly. I don't bother trying to amortize it. Furthermore, I've established a relationship with my Dillon supplier (who also runs an indoor range) who ALWAYS cuts me a rediculous deal on brass when I need it (rarely). In fact, he's given me more brass than I can count.

Including powder, 200gr. hardcast bullets and primers my honest cost per box of 50 is $4.13 (not including my time). This compares with $20 box for Ultramax cowboy loads.

Do the math folks. It doesn't take long to rationalize yourself into a whole mess of reloading equipment.

Steve Smith · July 12, 2002, 09:40 AM

STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP!!!!!STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP!!!!!STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP!!!!!STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP!!!!!STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP!!!!!

Mal H has already said this, but as we all know it gets passed over sometimes. This thread is from 2000! Ughh.

seadog · July 12, 2002, 10:42 AM

As many said before, I find myself reloading mainly so I can shoot more. I will admit that I buy a lot of 9mm and 223 bulk. However if I did not reload stuff like 44special and magnum, 45 Colt, and big rifle stuff, I would go broke in a hurry.

BigG · July 12, 2002, 11:09 AM

Added:

Quote:

$2.00 a box 45 ACP...

theyy are not telling you they are casting their own with free lead, buying 10,000 primers at a time an 8 lb cans of the cheapest powder - or else the math is off. George

I think it's OK to just buy the factory "paramilitary" stuff (WW, UMC, Fed or equiv).

It's cheap enough to shoot it up and the brass is useable if you ever decide to reload sometime in the future.

If you're talking about shooting cheap imported CR@P or ex military, you can't reload those cases anyway.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned (I think) is that you need to start with good cases to begin with. Wolf and S&B are not going to be worth your time reloading, at least not if you care about it. So you need to buy factory ammo from WW Fed or Rem to start or scrounge that kind of brass.

Also, time is involved. A 45 ACP box of ammo costs $3, sure, but on a single stage press it takes more than an hour to produce. If you like it, then it's a hobby, but if it's work then you should add your hourly rate to the $3 imho to arrive at a true cost. Just another way of evaluating it.

Waterdog · July 13, 2002, 01:53 AM

If someone thinks reloading is not cost effective,
then more power to them.

On the average, when I shoot in the desert, I can scavenge up to 300 pieces of brass, of all the most popular calibers.

The stuff I shoot goes into one bucket, the stuff I don't shoot, goes in to the trading bucket, and the stuff that I thought was reloadable and was really Berdan, goes into the recycle bucket(.28 lb.)today.

Some guys can sit in front of a TV for hours, and play video games. To me that's a waste of time.

Reloading is like working on your hotrod, you don't do it to save money, you do it because you enjoy it, it gives me a sense of independence and accomplishment.

IMHO

Waterdog

Edward429451 · July 13, 2002, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Whenever I see someone brag of a cost in the $2 a box range, I start wondering about their math

Hmmm, lets see if my math is off..

45ACP

Brass Free (I've never bought 45 brass, well once I think.)
Bullets .01 each (casting my own w/wheelweights, lube cost est.)
Primers 1.7 cents each (call it .02)
Powder, callit 20 bucks per pound, 7000 gr per pound divide by 5.8 gr per round is 1206 rounds per pound, so 20 dollars divided by 1206 rounds is 0.01658 or rounded up to .02 cents per round.

So you can figure 45ACP is 5 cents per round to load or 2.50 per 50 rounds. Bear in mind that costs were rounded up, powder actually runs 18 bucks or so, primers 17 bucks per 1000 so in reality it is 2 bucks per 50 rounds, or actually closer to 1.50 per 50 rounds. On my Dillon 550B I can load 50 rounds in about 10 minutes or less. My .44 Mag reloads with 300 gr cast lead bullets are running about 4 bucks per 50 rounds. Never did the math for .223's..

Plus the added benefit of pissing off feinstein and schumer! Valuable skills in an uncertain world...

The price does not include gas to melt the lead or labor, both of which are negligible. The real benefit is being able to tailor the loads to my specs. One good way of looking at it (even supposing buying jacketed bullets to load) is that for the cost of buying the real cheap factory ammo, you can load matchgrade ammo.

Edward429451 · July 13, 2002, 08:34 AM

Brass Free

Primers .02 ea.

Bullets .06 ea (60 bucks per 1000)

Powder 64 bucks per 8 lbs plus hazmat= 100 bucks or 2074 rnds per keg, divided by 100 bucks is about .05 per rnd.

So 13 cents ea or 130 bucks per 1000, takes about 3 or 4 hours on the 550B including coffee breaks and refills of machine. Cheaper than the cheap stuff and matchgrade to boot.

444 · July 13, 2002, 03:43 PM

I shot a VMBAR match today at the gun club I belong to. The match director would like us to be good citizens of the club, contribute to the club etc. not only to make the club better, but to be allocated more club resources. So, before the match we spend 10 minutes picking up brass left by other shooters (this is maybe 30 guys working for 10 minutes just on that one rifle range). Then at the end we spend another 10 minutes picking up brass even though no one from the VMBAR match leaves any of their brass. We do this every month, and barely touch the surface.

If we are going to start trying to figure out how much our personal time is worth so we can come up with accurate cost estimates on reloading, then lets factor in our time, gas money etc for going to buy factory ammo. If you buy on-line then of course the cost of the computer and ISP must be taken into account. After all, the time we waste at our reloading bench could be spent productively in front of the idiot box.

July 11, 2002, 09:35 PM	#31
444 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2000 Location: Ohio Posts: 3,968	This has been covered so many times that doing a search for this topic would be like doing a search on google for the topic of "Windows". Sorry, I couldn't resist. __________________ You know the rest. In the books you have read How the British Regulars fired and fled, How the farmers gave them ball for ball, From behind each fence and farmyard wall, Chasing the redcoats down the lane, Then crossing the fields to emerge again Under the trees at the turn of the road, And only pausing to fire and load.

July 12, 2002, 08:14 AM	#35
stellarpod Senior Member Join Date: August 18, 2001 Location: OKC,OK Posts: 263	The .44 Mag brass I use for my extremely low-power cowboy loads can be used indefinetly. I don't bother trying to amortize it. Furthermore, I've established a relationship with my Dillon supplier (who also runs an indoor range) who ALWAYS cuts me a rediculous deal on brass when I need it (rarely). In fact, he's given me more brass than I can count. Including powder, 200gr. hardcast bullets and primers my honest cost per box of 50 is $4.13 (not including my time). This compares with $20 box for Ultramax cowboy loads. Do the math folks. It doesn't take long to rationalize yourself into a whole mess of reloading equipment. __________________ Things are a lot more like they used to be than they are now

July 12, 2002, 09:40 AM	#36
Steve Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 1999 Posts: 4,131	STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP!!!!! STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP!!!!!STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP!!!!!STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP!!!!!STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP!!!!!STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP!!!!! Mal H has already said this, but as we all know it gets passed over sometimes. This thread is from 2000! Ughh. __________________ Favor the X. Steve Smith NRA Life Member

July 13, 2002, 08:34 AM	#41
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	.223's Brass Free Primers .02 ea. Bullets .06 ea (60 bucks per 1000) Powder 64 bucks per 8 lbs plus hazmat= 100 bucks or 2074 rnds per keg, divided by 100 bucks is about .05 per rnd. So 13 cents ea or 130 bucks per 1000, takes about 3 or 4 hours on the 550B including coffee breaks and refills of machine. Cheaper than the cheap stuff and matchgrade to boot.

July 13, 2002, 03:43 PM	#42
444 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2000 Location: Ohio Posts: 3,968	Price of Brass I shot a VMBAR match today at the gun club I belong to. The match director would like us to be good citizens of the club, contribute to the club etc. not only to make the club better, but to be allocated more club resources. So, before the match we spend 10 minutes picking up brass left by other shooters (this is maybe 30 guys working for 10 minutes just on that one rifle range). Then at the end we spend another 10 minutes picking up brass even though no one from the VMBAR match leaves any of their brass. We do this every month, and barely touch the surface. If we are going to start trying to figure out how much our personal time is worth so we can come up with accurate cost estimates on reloading, then lets factor in our time, gas money etc for going to buy factory ammo. If you buy on-line then of course the cost of the computer and ISP must be taken into account. After all, the time we waste at our reloading bench could be spent productively in front of the idiot box.

August 14, 2000, 08:08 PM	#26
beemerb Junior member Join Date: October 2, 1999 Location: AZ Posts: 1,759	I reload because it is cheaper for my handguns and for softnose for my rifles.I shoot cast in handguns and mostly 150 gr hornady in 308. I do not buy new brass.I can buy once fired for a nickel a round so why buy new? 45 ACP cost about 6 cents to load-38 and 357 at about 5 cents. 308 banging ammo is surplus.At 12.9 cants a round you can't load ammo.My soft nose cost me about 20 cents which is less then half of commercal. Saveing are great and you can tailer loads to what you want. I use a dillon 550B and in my opinion it is the best on the market for the money.Had so little for problems with it and what I did have where my fault.Dillon still fixed it for nothing.Can't beat that deal. Thats my .02 ------------------ Bob--- Age and deceit will overcome youth and speed. I'm old and deceitful.

July 10, 2002, 02:51 AM	#27
imperative Member Join Date: April 17, 2001 Posts: 48	paratrooper, My gun club back in school reloaded a lot of .223, so I guess it just depends.

July 10, 2002, 12:59 PM	#28
ZeusOne Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2000 Location: The hills of Western MD Posts: 237	Hi, my name is ZeusOne and I am a reloader - because I enjoy reloading! From the beginning, I've tracked my reloading costs (equipment, components, powder, etc.) in a customized spreadsheet. Bottom line is that you CAN save money - or make up the difference by shooting more often. Either way, it's a win-win scenario. Yes, there are exceptions to the above. My 7.62x39 is strictly store-bought, cause it's cheaper. Surplus 8MM and 7.62x54 is available commercially for cheap also. But allot of this stuff is corrosive, and all of it is dirty. But then, it's plinking ammo so who cares? Rolling your own can become a part of the total shooting sports experience. Whether it's shooting consistent ragged hole groups at the range, or bringing home game from the field, for me it's just somehow better with homemade ammo.

July 10, 2002, 03:15 PM	#29
nyetter Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2001 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 342	If you shoot only 9mm, you probably don't need to reload. If you shoot .45 or .357, you absolutely need to. You can get a case of 9mm for about $120 out the door. I can load a case of 9mm for about $80 all told. Even that is a 33% savings. With .45 and .357 it's more like 50% or 60% ($100 versus $220). If you shoot .38, handloading is the only reasonable way to get decent target ammo (ie: 148gr wadcutters loaded super-light).

July 11, 2002, 08:36 PM	#30
Guy B. Meredith Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 1999 Location: Salem, Oregon Posts: 1,581	No one makes ammo as pretty as mine. Shoots okay, too, and I can fine tune at will. What I put together in .38 sp for about $3.80 per 50 used to cost me $7.75 per 50 in quantities of 500 and would cost at least $15 per 50 off the shelf.

July 11, 2002, 10:11 PM	#32
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,955	... In fact, I think a thread on this very subject was started back in August, 2000.

July 11, 2002, 11:41 PM	#33
nyetter Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2001 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 342	I'm curious as to others' methods for computing the cost of their reloads. I get the sinking suspicion that many aren't counting the cost of brass, and some others aren't counting the cost of powder. Sometimes this is fairly justified. 9mm brass is so cheap I could afford to just use it once. And my wadcutter loads only use 2.8gr of Bullseye, which works out to $6.40/1000. However, it's certainly not always true. For example, if you're loading your .45 hardball with Blue Dot, that's costing you $18+ per 1000. And even once-fired 45 brass is expensive (about 4 times 9mm)! When I figure my costs, I'm sure to count powder, and I usually amortize brass costs across an expected number of uses. Whenever I see someone brag of a cost in the $2 a box range, I start wondering about their math

July 12, 2002, 06:51 AM	#34
444 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2000 Location: Ohio Posts: 3,968	Free brass is easy to come by. There are people litterally throwing it away all the time. The cost of powder is minimal (in handguns) to begin with, and even less when you buy in quantity. I regularly use mil-surp powder both in rifle and pistol. I also buy my faviorite powders in 8 pound kegs. I figure the cost of powder in my estimations, but the cost of powder and brass are minimal. Want a good reason to reload ? Tomorrow there is a Vintage Military Bolt Action Rifle match that I want to shoot in. I am going to use my No. 1 Mk. III Enfield in .303 British. I didn't have any ammo loaded and didn't really feel like loading any, so I hit the local gun shops. No .303 ammo to be found. So, instead of just throwing in the towel, I went home and loaded it. I am not limited to what the local dealers think I need, or what they are willing to put their inventory money into. I can decide for myself. If I decide to shoot my Moisin Nagant next month at the match, I can use the same bullets, the same powder, and the same primers to load 7.62x54R that I used to load .303 Brit; just put it in a different case. Whether my local dealer decides to stock it is up to him; I got mine.

July 12, 2002, 10:42 AM	#37
seadog Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 2000 Location: Virginia Posts: 287	As many said before, I find myself reloading mainly so I can shoot more. I will admit that I buy a lot of 9mm and 223 bulk. However if I did not reload stuff like 44special and magnum, 45 Colt, and big rifle stuff, I would go broke in a hurry.

July 13, 2002, 01:53 AM	#39
Waterdog Junior member Join Date: January 6, 2000 Location: AZ Posts: 1,236	If someone thinks reloading is not cost effective, then more power to them. On the average, when I shoot in the desert, I can scavenge up to 300 pieces of brass, of all the most popular calibers. The stuff I shoot goes into one bucket, the stuff I don't shoot, goes in to the trading bucket, and the stuff that I thought was reloadable and was really Berdan, goes into the recycle bucket(.28 lb.)today. Some guys can sit in front of a TV for hours, and play video games. To me that's a waste of time. Reloading is like working on your hotrod, you don't do it to save money, you do it because you enjoy it, it gives me a sense of independence and accomplishment. IMHO Waterdog