Firming up.

[Chainsaw.]

No this isnt about cologne injections.

I have about 5-600#s of lead that sits at about a 10 on the BHN scale, Id like to use some foundry type to get this hard enough for 223 cast bullets, anyone have a suggestion on how much of each will get me into rifle hardness territory? Ill be powder coating and gas checking. Looking for around 23-2500fps, Im only concerned with running an AR, not about velocities.

[Mike / Tx]

Well if you had some sort of idea what the composition of the bulk lead is I could run it through an alloy calculator I downloaded from the Lead and Alloy section over on Castboolit's forum.

It might not be exactly on the money but it get a close enough for me.

[Chainsaw.]

I was afraid you would say that. No idea what tge composition is. All I know is its about 10bhn and need just a touch of tin added to get good fill out.

[Mike / Tx]

Not knowing the exact content isn't a deal breaker. One thing you might do is check around you area and see if there might be a scrap yard with a XRF tester that could shoot a sample.

Another is to go at it as close to pure and work up calculations of small 5 pound batches with the added foundry to estimate where your going to end up. After blending, pour some sample bullets. Test one that day, another a week later, and another a week after. That should give you an idea of where your at and how it age hardens to a point.

If you quench you might want to also test in a similar manner so you will have a comparison of the same alloy from both aspects.

[Chainsaw.]

That was my plan if finding a calculation didnt work, but that's alot of farting around. Ill try some of the scrap yards for an XRF scanner.....in fact, I think the one I've used before has one they used on some stuff I took in once. Thanks for the idea.

[F. Guffey]

I can't help you, I do have an old book that is not in the habit of talking it to death; seems it goes back to about 1910. Back then they claimed it was possible to determine lead/tin content by the melting torture. And then there is R. Lee, he has a friend that hits the lead with a hammer and then checks the dent. When sorting ingots and bars I drop them on concrete; dead soft lead has a dead sound, the hard stuff has a high pitch ring when dropped on the floor.

F. GUffey

[Dieselhorses]

"Fortunecookie45LC" from Youtube has some pretty cool videos on how to pretty accurately test the hardness of your lead WITHOUT an expensive tester. He also breaks down how much alloy he uses. Check out his videos. As for me, I just straight wheel weight lead and had good results.

[Chainsaw.]

Ha! Yup, Steve is one of my favorite you tubers. I've learned ALOT from him. Just wanted to get a little more in depth with my rie lead to try to get to that "Ideal" hardness. But, I think like Mike said Im just gonna have to work by trial and error.

[Mike / Tx]

The trail an error ain't that bad. Your going to have some small batches but it'll still make bullets.

I just used 5# as a starting point. Once I found the area I needed I just multiplied everything up to 25#, them to 50#. Even those batches were a trail of sorts, but they came out close enough for what I needed.

[Chainsaw.]

Which is basically all I need, Ive found "in the ballpark" is usually plenty close with pistols so some where on the bases is probably fine for rifles, especially since Ill be powder coating and gas checking.

[res45]

Fresh Foundry type run around 30 BHN,it basically composed of about 15% Tin,62% Lead and 23% Antimony so it makes a good hardening agent because of the high Antimony content.

5 lbs. of Foundry type to 10 lbs. of pure should give you a BHN in the 16 to 17 range air cooled.

If the Foundry type has been recycle multiple time it's probably somewhat depleted of the Tin an may be much closer to Monotype which run around 25 BHN,your Lead being at 10 BHN is closer to range scrap. Assuming that the alloys that you have are much closer to these two metals the same 5 lbs. of hard metal plus 10 lbs. of the Lead scrap will still get you close to 15 BHN air cooled.

If you were to go 50/50 with those two alloys it's going to give you around 19 BHN air cooled. The BHN numbers are just representative of the know BHN of given metals so it may vary somewhat but you will be pretty much in the ball park. I would probably water quench whatever I cast with to get the extra hardness.

[Aikia]

Fortune Cookie has a really good vid where he explains 3 ways to calculate the additions you need for your alloy.
https://youtu.be/KgGXiwkskEE
The one that looks like a grid (looks like tic tac toe) I don't think you need to know the mix of your metals just the hardness of each. I think it would work for you.

[Dieselhorses]

Just thought I would share a relatively simple method of accurately checking lead hardness IF you don't already have the Lee Precision kit.

Items needed:
Drill press
"Ball gauge" w/ 5/32" (3.96875 mm) at one end
Cheap dial bathroom scale
Lee's BHN chart http://www.texas-mac.com/sitebuilder...r3-728x491.jpg

Throw ingot or bullet under 5/32" bit and load 60 lbs for 30 seconds. Measure impression with dial caliper (use magnifying glass!) Refer to chart.

There is also a formula which works but much more involved!

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Have a cabinetree hardness measure'r here for my use.
Besides:
"I highly doubt I could swipe the scale out of the wife's bathroom without my being caught and interrogated as to what my intentions (were)? "

[Dieselhorses]

I went and purchased my OWN PERSONAL scale LOL. (8.00 from Wally World.) Most difficult part of the process is miking the impression. That's what you're really paying for in Lee kit is the microscope.

[Don Fischer]

How do you know it's a 10 BHN? What are you worrying about happening? If they are powder coated I don't think they'll lead the barrel. I'm new into PC but I'm impressed how well it holds up on 308 cal bullets at over 2000fps! I got the Lee hardness tester because I just had to know. Haven't a clue how accurate it is but it is inexpensive!

[Chainsaw.]

I had purchased the lee hardness tester. Ended up deciding against casting for 223, for the proce Im buying jacketed bullets its simply not worth my time to cast for that caliber.

[Unclenick]

I agree. Casting for .22's is for experimental fun. Moreover, you want a very hard bullet for rifle velocities; at least in the BHN 20's range, so if you weren't going to just cast and shoot the foundry type, I would be assuming I needed to heat treat the finished bullets. For that purpose you need some arsenic in the mix. Magnum lead shot is a common source.

[Chainsaw.]

Right. I'm not putting casting for 22s out of my head entirely. I'll probably still persue it at some point for experimentation and the possibility of ammo becoming gold again. But for now, meh. I was wondering how much of what Id have to add to my lead, or what type of lead to just buy to make it viable for rifle speeds.

[Dieselhorses]

Other than dealing with having to PC thousands of munchkin 55 gr. bullets, It has been been proven that you can alleviate the gas check, still get cycling and get an effective velocity with no leading. Downside is still having to "flare" neck. I guess the upside to using jacketed ammo from factory is the "all knowing" effect that there's little to no chance of malfunction. BUT cast bullets are always rewarding at ANY rate! (If they work)

[David R]

I shot cast bullets out of my 22-250. I used pure linotype with gas checks. WW296 was the powder of choice. It was fun and challenging. In the end, I got a 5.5" 14 shot group at three hundred yards. Velocity was 2750.

Remington 700 VL.

It was a 300 yard prone match. Bolt was difficult to work because cases had only been neck sized. I stopped before finishing the 20 round string. Still my best cast rifle target.
David

[Dieselhorses]

Originally Posted by David R

I shot cast bullets out of my 22-250. I used pure linotype with gas checks. WW296 was the powder of choice. It was fun and challenging. In the end, I got a 5.5" 14 shot group at three hundred yards. Velocity was 2750.

Remington 700 VL.

It was a 300 yard prone match. Bolt was difficult to work because cases had only been neck sized. I stopped before finishing the 20 round string. Still my best cast rifle target.
David

That's NOT a bad group! I may be wrong but I thought WW296 was the same as H110 which is a magnum pistol powder?

[gwpercle]

Originally Posted by Chainsaw.

I had purchased the lee hardness tester. Ended up deciding against casting for 223, for the proce Im buying jacketed bullets its simply not worth my time to cast for that caliber.

More than likely a GREAT idea. 22's are a pain to cast, powder coat and size in quantity .

In my unscientific methods of operation , AKA trial and error , I would mix the lead 50/50 with the type metal and test. This mix works well in 30 cal. rifles. 30-30 Winchester, 7.5 Swiss , 308 Win. , 30-06 and also the 303 British . Air cooled with gas check, at velocities from 1600 to 2000 fps .
Powder coating would up the fps range.
Gary