Pics of the most hilarious SA conversion ever :) - Page 2

Jim March · April 3, 2011, 11:17 PM

What's blacked out is the sight. It's a Tim Sheehan design that he hasn't released yet. He let me make one - but only under non-disclosure

.

Jim March · April 3, 2011, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Now make it semi auto

I've been wondering if I can't rig up something that will auto-stuff into the ejection chamber

. It would still be a manual-cocker, but...30rd capacity anyone? (Obviously it's possible - look at how many times Hollywood has shown SA wheelguns that never need reloading?

) I don't have the tooling available to tackle that now, but...y'all know by now I'm easily sick enough to try one day

.

As to a semi - well in theory I could run a gas tube on the other side to cock it. I'd have to slick it up to hell and gone and run light springs and soft primers but in theory, yeah, it's doable.

Question is, how do I keep it SEMI?!

Auto426 · April 4, 2011, 12:02 AM

I can see it already, Jim March will next be rigging up 30 round gravity fed Gatling gun magazines to the side of the pistol, and will devise a new gas system to load the cartridges and cock the hammer. I can't wait to see the holster for that one...

kadima · April 4, 2011, 06:01 AM

And I was thinking that, after having seen the MaTeBa and the Chiappa Rhino I would have never had the chance to see a weirder revolver....

K.

bamatj · April 4, 2011, 08:48 AM

Ha good work I like it lol. But I lmao at the thought of you sending to Ruger just with a note that says somethings wrong. I bet who ever opened the box, their eyes would get big lol.

griz · April 4, 2011, 09:37 AM

That sort of reminds me of the lever action that J. M. Browning modified to load automatically. It had a sort of a flapper near the muzzle that pulled on a rod that operated the lever. I Can't find a photo but it was quite a contraption. Of course the idea of using that free muzzle pressure lead to some more notable designs.

Maybe this is the first step to a sleek SA that I could load in the morning and shoot an entire cowboy match.

Jim March · April 4, 2011, 10:23 AM

Griz, do you know what year Browning was first messing with the "flapper levergun"? I've been trying to track down the earliest gas-powered anything. I've been assuming that it had to be post-smokeless, but...that sounds like it might have worked in the black powder era?

grumpa72 · April 4, 2011, 11:13 AM

My eyes! My eyes! My eyes are temporarily flash blinded, sort of like watching a nuclear explosion without those huge googles.

Ingenious? yes. Nice looking? Only a mother could like that pistol though!

Jim March · April 4, 2011, 11:48 AM

This is the first version that *works*. Cosmetic improvements are still in progress. Honest!

Jim March · April 4, 2011, 11:50 AM

You know what'd be great? Bring it into Ruger and film the reactions to a request for a re-blue

.

zxcvbob · April 4, 2011, 02:03 PM

Something like that would actually be useful on a .30 Carbine blackhawk. The empties rebound off the frame and lodge back in the chambers so tight (remember, they are tapered not straight) I have to pound them out. And I think there's enough clearance at the gate already for the case heads...

Kreyzhorse · April 4, 2011, 02:23 PM

Interesting Jim. Looks like something out of that old TV show The Wild Wild West.

Jim March · April 4, 2011, 02:35 PM

zxcvbob: if that's the case, then they're still going to bounce back and stick and in that case I might not have enough gas pressure to force 'em out. Remember, they fire at the top position and get ejected one position to the right (as you look at it from the rear).

The shells would probably be narrow enough but I think I'd rather run rimless shells like the 9x23Winchester or 9x19Para at lower pressure. They'll work OK through my existing barrel.

If it's not obvious yet: this would have been a LOT harder to set up in 45. I don't think I'd have tried - the amount of frame clearance would have been ghastly, although possibly still doable in 45ACP...

griz · April 4, 2011, 04:15 PM

Here is a patent for it from 1892. Wouldn't that still be black powder at the time?

http://www.google.com/patents?vid=471783

HKFan9 · April 4, 2011, 04:28 PM

Jim.... this thing is AWESOME, please do not stop in your quest to make the coolest SAA since.... they were ever invented.

My hat is off to you sir.

Jim March · April 4, 2011, 05:30 PM

Griz: very interesting. Browning wasn't tapping the exhaust gasses at all, he was tapping the gas *ahead* of the bullet! That would push the "flapper" open, which cycles the action. Amazing! I would NOT want to try that with a handgun but with a rifle, yeah, I can see how you might have enough gas volume to make it work. Browning's setup would have worked with black powder or smokeless, so...huh...I wonder if he had access to smokeless by 1892? Must have...he was a major figure connected with Winchester by then...

I'm primarily tapping exaust gasses, I think. So was Mondragon in Mexico, at least in lab specimens by 1892, so he was in some ways well ahead of Browning! His designs were influencial on the Garand later so...I have a lot of respect for Mondragon. And Browning too of course! But it appears Browning turned away from gas-powered operation and went to recoil-operated, which is great for handguns but not so good on rifles.

1892 is into the smokeless era if we're talking about rifles. The French Lebel of 1886 was the first rifle made for smokeless powder. Smokeless for handguns was delayed a few years but around 1895 Colt re-did the SAA to be smokeless-compatible.

Huh.

Come to think, I may be using some "front of the bullet" air as well as combustion gas. It hardly matters - I don't have any timing issues to deal with. All I care about is the empty getting shucked, I don't particularly care when in the firing cycle it happens, just so long as it does before I cock it again. I'd need access to high-speed photography to know what's really going on...

James K · April 4, 2011, 06:46 PM

A great piece of work and extremely interesting. A neat project just to show something like that can be done, but I suspect commercial value is nil.

Now if you cut away the cylinder boss on the other side and led a mag tube with a spring down to it so rounds fed into the cylinder as it turned, then you could make the tube a spiral of 20 coils and you would have a 500 round magazine, and then add an extension to the ejector to cock the hammer, and . . . .....

Jim

Jim March · April 4, 2011, 07:27 PM

STAND BACK! i HAVE A DREMEL, AND I'M NOT AFRAID TO USE IT!!!!!!!!1

Venom1956 · April 4, 2011, 08:30 PM

Love it hats off to you sir... I cant wait for videos

Crosshair · April 4, 2011, 09:39 PM

Quote:

I can see it already, Jim March will next be rigging up 30 round gravity fed Gatling gun magazines to the side of the pistol, and will devise a new gas system to load the cartridges and cock the hammer. I can't wait to see the holster for that one...

Reminds me of the pistol from Bioshock.

18 shot revolver anyone?

Jim March · April 4, 2011, 09:46 PM

League night at the range tonight. Closed. No video yet

.

Dayum.

rdrancher · April 4, 2011, 10:17 PM

Looking forward to the video Jim. That rig has Wild Wild West written all over it!

mr kablammo · April 4, 2011, 10:20 PM

If the Mole People of the Residents 'Mark of the Mole' trilogy built a handgun...

Kodyo · April 4, 2011, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Reminds me of the pistol from Bioshock.

And I thought i was the only one who played that game here

athanasor · April 5, 2011, 09:40 AM

I'm with SPUSG on the video - I'll bring the popcorn.

Makes me glad that my Indian name is Fumbles With Tools, frees up a lot of time.

April 3, 2011, 11:17 PM	#26
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	What's blacked out is the sight. It's a Tim Sheehan design that he hasn't released yet. He let me make one - but only under non-disclosure . __________________ Jim March

April 4, 2011, 12:02 AM	#28
Auto426 Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2007 Location: South Louisiana Posts: 1,323	I can see it already, Jim March will next be rigging up 30 round gravity fed Gatling gun magazines to the side of the pistol, and will devise a new gas system to load the cartridges and cock the hammer. I can't wait to see the holster for that one... __________________ *"Si vis pacem, para bellum"* - If you want peace, prepare for war.

April 4, 2011, 10:23 AM	#32
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	Griz, do you know what year Browning was first messing with the "flapper levergun"? I've been trying to track down the earliest gas-powered anything. I've been assuming that it had to be post-smokeless, but...that sounds like it might have worked in the black powder era? __________________ Jim March

April 4, 2011, 11:48 AM	#34
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	This is the first version that works. Cosmetic improvements are still in progress. Honest! __________________ Jim March

April 4, 2011, 11:50 AM	#35
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	You know what'd be great? Bring it into Ruger and film the reactions to a request for a re-blue . __________________ Jim March

April 4, 2011, 06:01 AM	#29
kadima Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2010 Posts: 190	And I was thinking that, after having seen the MaTeBa and the Chiappa Rhino I would have never had the chance to see a weirder revolver.... K.

April 4, 2011, 08:48 AM	#30
bamatj Member Join Date: December 23, 2007 Posts: 31	Ha good work I like it lol. But I lmao at the thought of you sending to Ruger just with a note that says somethings wrong. I bet who ever opened the box, their eyes would get big lol.

April 4, 2011, 09:37 AM	#31
griz Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2000 Location: Middle Peninsula, VA Posts: 1,588	That sort of reminds me of the lever action that J. M. Browning modified to load automatically. It had a sort of a flapper near the muzzle that pulled on a rod that operated the lever. I Can't find a photo but it was quite a contraption. Of course the idea of using that free muzzle pressure lead to some more notable designs. Maybe this is the first step to a sleek SA that I could load in the morning and shoot an entire cowboy match.

April 4, 2011, 11:13 AM	#33
grumpa72 Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2009 Posts: 487	My eyes! My eyes! My eyes are temporarily flash blinded, sort of like watching a nuclear explosion without those huge googles. Ingenious? yes. Nice looking? Only a mother could like that pistol though!

April 4, 2011, 02:03 PM	#36
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	Something like that would actually be useful on a .30 Carbine blackhawk. The empties rebound off the frame and lodge back in the chambers so tight (remember, they are tapered not straight) I have to pound them out. And I think there's enough clearance at the gate already for the case heads... __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

April 4, 2011, 02:23 PM	#37
Kreyzhorse Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2006 Location: NKY Posts: 12,463	Interesting Jim. Looks like something out of that old TV show The Wild Wild West. __________________ "He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson

April 4, 2011, 02:35 PM	#38
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	zxcvbob: if that's the case, then they're still going to bounce back and stick and in that case I might not have enough gas pressure to force 'em out. Remember, they fire at the top position and get ejected one position to the right (as you look at it from the rear). The shells would probably be narrow enough but I think I'd rather run rimless shells like the 9x23Winchester or 9x19Para at lower pressure. They'll work OK through my existing barrel. If it's not obvious yet: this would have been a LOT harder to set up in 45. I don't think I'd have tried - the amount of frame clearance would have been ghastly, although possibly still doable in 45ACP... __________________ Jim March

April 4, 2011, 04:15 PM	#39
griz Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2000 Location: Middle Peninsula, VA Posts: 1,588	Here is a patent for it from 1892. Wouldn't that still be black powder at the time? http://www.google.com/patents?vid=471783

April 4, 2011, 04:28 PM	#40
HKFan9 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2008 Posts: 3,057	Jim.... this thing is AWESOME, please do not stop in your quest to make the coolest SAA since.... they were ever invented. My hat is off to you sir.

April 4, 2011, 05:30 PM	#41
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	Griz: very interesting. Browning wasn't tapping the exhaust gasses at all, he was tapping the gas ahead of the bullet! That would push the "flapper" open, which cycles the action. Amazing! I would NOT want to try that with a handgun but with a rifle, yeah, I can see how you might have enough gas volume to make it work. Browning's setup would have worked with black powder or smokeless, so...huh...I wonder if he had access to smokeless by 1892? Must have...he was a major figure connected with Winchester by then... I'm primarily tapping exaust gasses, I think. So was Mondragon in Mexico, at least in lab specimens by 1892, so he was in some ways well ahead of Browning! His designs were influencial on the Garand later so...I have a lot of respect for Mondragon. And Browning too of course! But it appears Browning turned away from gas-powered operation and went to recoil-operated, which is great for handguns but not so good on rifles. 1892 is into the smokeless era if we're talking about rifles. The French Lebel of 1886 was the first rifle made for smokeless powder. Smokeless for handguns was delayed a few years but around 1895 Colt re-did the SAA to be smokeless-compatible. Huh. Come to think, I may be using some "front of the bullet" air as well as combustion gas. It hardly matters - I don't have any timing issues to deal with. All I care about is the empty getting shucked, I don't particularly care when in the firing cycle it happens, just so long as it does before I cock it again. I'd need access to high-speed photography to know what's really going on... __________________ Jim March

April 4, 2011, 06:46 PM	#42
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	A great piece of work and extremely interesting. A neat project just to show something like that can be done, but I suspect commercial value is nil. Now if you cut away the cylinder boss on the other side and led a mag tube with a spring down to it so rounds fed into the cylinder as it turned, then you could make the tube a spiral of 20 coils and you would have a 500 round magazine, and then add an extension to the ejector to cock the hammer, and . . . ..... Jim

April 4, 2011, 07:27 PM	#43
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	STAND BACK! i HAVE A DREMEL, AND I'M NOT AFRAID TO USE IT!!!!!!!!1 __________________ Jim March

April 4, 2011, 08:30 PM	#44
Venom1956 Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2008 Location: WI Posts: 3,656	Love it hats off to you sir... I cant wait for videos __________________ E-Shock rounds are engineered to expend maximum energy into soft targets, turning the density mass into an expanding rotational cone of NyTrilium matrix particles, causing neurological collapse to the central nervous system.- Yeah I can do that. I guarantee you will know it if a bicyclist hits your house going 1000 mph. -Smaug

April 4, 2011, 09:46 PM	#46
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	League night at the range tonight. Closed. No video yet . Dayum. __________________ Jim March

April 4, 2011, 10:17 PM	#47
rdrancher Member Join Date: November 28, 2007 Location: North Texas Posts: 97	Looking forward to the video Jim. That rig has Wild Wild West written all over it! __________________ Behind the Barn John 14:6

April 4, 2011, 10:20 PM	#48
mr kablammo Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Posts: 241	If the Mole People of the Residents 'Mark of the Mole' trilogy built a handgun...

April 5, 2011, 09:40 AM	#50
athanasor Member Join Date: September 5, 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 55	I'm with SPUSG on the video - I'll bring the popcorn. Makes me glad that my Indian name is Fumbles With Tools, frees up a lot of time.