Uberti .380 revolver............

Bob Wright · September 22, 2018, 10:04 AM

I am hearing a lot about a forthcoming Uberti, a cartridge conversion of the 1849 Pocket Model. This a five shot Single Action revolver in .380 ACP. Supposedly the .380 was chosen for its rimless design, as the cylinder could not accommodate five rimed .38 caliber (.38 S&W?) cartridges.

Anybody here abouts seen or have one?

Sound absolutely intriguing!

Bob Wright

HighValleyRanch · September 22, 2018, 10:26 AM

That would be cool! I'd get one.

the Black Spot · September 22, 2018, 10:39 AM

Would also be cool in that little remington pocket gun

T. O'Heir · September 22, 2018, 11:55 AM

"...cylinder could not accommodate..." That's not why. The difference in the base diameters of the 2 is .0125". Far more likely to be the relative availability of ammo.
Anyway, Uberti is making an Model 1862 Police Conversion in .380 ACP. They've been making a "Conversion unit" since last year. There's a .32 S&W cylinder available for the 1849. $200 from .taylorsfirearms.com.

Bob Wright · September 22, 2018, 01:08 PM

T. O'Heir said:

Quote:

"...cylinder could not accommodate..." That's not why. The difference in the base diameters of the 2 is .0125". Far more likely to be the relative availability of ammo.

The article I read stated that the rims of .38 S&W cartridges would overlap/bind when loaded, hence the rimless choice of a cartridge.

Rim dia. of .38 S&W = .428" ~ .438"

Rim dia. of .380 ACP = .369" ~ .371"

Bob Wright

**Aguila Blanca** · September 22, 2018, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Wright

I am hearing a lot about a forthcoming Uberti, a cartridge conversion of the 1849 Pocket Model. This a five shot Single Action revolver in .380 ACP. Supposedly the .380 was chosen for its rimless design, as the cylinder could not accommodate five rimed .38 caliber (.38 S&W?) cartridges.

Anybody here abouts seen or have one?

Sound absolutely intriguing!

I haven't heard anything about this, but I agree ... sounds absolutely intriguing. Sight unseen, I want one.

**Aguila Blanca** · September 22, 2018, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T. O'Heir

"...cylinder could not accommodate..." That's not why. The difference in the base diameters of the 2 is .0125".

Bob beat me to it, but the problem isn't the base diameter, it's the rim diameter. That's the reason why Starline's .45 Schofield brass isn't made to the same dimensions as historical .45 Schofield ammo. Starline makes it with a smaller rim so it can be used in Colt and Colt clone 1873s.

bedbugbilly · September 22, 2018, 06:21 PM

First - are you talking 38 S & W cartridge or 38 S & W "Special" ?

Either way, my Lyman Cast Bullet Handbooks show the rim diameter of both of the above as .440.

If Uberti is offering the '49 in .380 ACP - I would guess it's because of the easy availability of the ammo over the availability of 32 S & W Short/Long as far as walking in and buying it off he shelf.

Either way, I'd be interested as I reload 380 and it would be a fun plinker. Conversion cylinders have been aviailable for the '49s, etc. for quite some time in 32 S & W. However, the only way I'd be interested if it was a true "gated" conversion.
Breaking down an open top with a conversion cylinder juw5 eo3wn'5 qpp3ql 5o m3.

If Ubertis is actually going to make the '49 in .380, I wouuld hope that they put an ejection rod on it. If not, make yourself a spot in your holster for an "ejection stick". :-)

Buckeye! · September 22, 2018, 06:44 PM

https://www.gunsweek.com/en/pistols/...ocket-revolver

Here is a article .. Im game

sgms · September 22, 2018, 07:34 PM

I in too. That should be one fun little gun.

Bob Wright · September 22, 2018, 08:02 PM

I originally stated it was an "1849 Pocket Model." This was incorrect as the 1862 Police Model (and 1862 Pocket Navy) both had the rebated cylinder with milled out frames. This rebated cylinder, like the 1860 Army, allowed the guns to utilize the .36 caliber balls, hence "Navy caliber." The Army allowed the Army caliber to be built on a Navy frame.

It was my understanding that the .38 S&W cartridge was given first, but scant, consideration.

Actually, the Pocket Navy and Police Models were made from the .31 caliber 1849 Pocket Model frames. The 1849 frame was a slightly enlongated 1848 Pocket (Baby Dragoon) frame.

Clear?

jcv · September 22, 2018, 09:00 PM

It's been Coming Soon on the Cimarron website for months. I hope it actually appears.

**Aguila Blanca** · September 22, 2018, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bedbugbilly

Either way, I'd be interested as I reload 380 and it would be a fun plinker. Conversion cylinders have been aviailable for the '49s, etc. for quite some time in 32 S & W. However, the only way I'd be interested if it was a true "gated" conversion.
Breaking down an open top with a conversion cylinder juw5 eo3wn'5 qpp3ql 5o m3.

Too true.

I bought a Howell / R&D conversion for an open-top clone, and I've regretted it every single time I look at the gun. I should have spent a few more $$$ to get a Kirst gated conversion.

**Aguila Blanca** · September 23, 2018, 12:00 AM

Quote:

https://www.gunsweek.com/en/pistols/...ocket-revolver

Here is a article .. Im game

Curious -- it doesn't appear to have any loading gate at all, just an open cut. I would think the case aligned with the opening would tend to back out under recoil and lock up the mechanism. Or is there enough of a misalignment at full cock that the case would be at least partially blocked?

bedbugbilly · September 23, 2018, 12:48 PM

My apologies - when I made my post, I obviously had a "senior moment" as far as hitting the right keys! What I was gong to say was that an open top with a conversion cylinder that made it necessary to break it down to reload just didn't cut it as far as I was concerned. I have wlooked at the Howells - even have a nice hollow base .358 conical mold that would work well with them but having t o break down the open top has alyways put tie kibosh on it for me.

In regards to the open loading gate - I'm going to go back and read the article that is linked - but an open gate wouldn't be much different than many of the open gated "
Saturday night specials" that were produced in the late 1800s/early 1900's.

Bob - yep, I understand what you're saying. The 62 pocket makes more sense if they are doing it in 380 acp. . . . especially "bore wise". .380 bores can vary so I wonder what they will end up with as far as the bore goes. A '62 Police/Pocket Navy would be a nice size revolver for the cartridge. Just thinking out loud here - maybe the article tells - but the small Taurus .380 utilized moon clips IIRC as do many of the 9mm revolvers for those cartridges that headspace on the mouth. I'm wondering how Uberti is going to address how it is loaded - and how to eject spent casings - ejection rod? And, will it be a "lead only" cartridge recommendation?

TruthTellers · September 23, 2018, 04:12 PM

I was interested when I heard about this revolver TWO YEARS AGO, but my interest has totally disappeared because if I wanted to shoot an 1849 or 1862 Pocket with cartridges, the .32 S&W cylinders are available and from what I've heard, the 1862 frames and arbors are compatible with 1849 barrels, cylinders, so you don't have to own an 1849 to use the .32 conversion with, you just need a barrel with the correct bore diameter.

Model12Win · September 23, 2018, 04:23 PM

On the Yewbirdy site:

https://www.ubertireplicas.com/produ...ce-conversion/

Still no explanation of the carts stay in the cylinders?

105kw · September 23, 2018, 09:00 PM

Original Pocket Police and Pocket Navy were built with or without a loading gate.
Calibers were .38 rimfire or center-fire(38 short and long Colt)
Many different variations, some factory conversion, some built as cartridge.
Really cool guns. I'm going to scope this out.

**Aguila Blanca** · September 25, 2018, 12:37 PM

Here's the latest, direct from Cimarron:

Quote:

Hi Mr. xxxxx,

I am following up with more information about the little Pocket Model. We did introduced a prototype at shot show 2018. We were able to import an inert gun from Uberti for showing. Earlier this year we received the prototype and sent it to ATF for testing as it is the first time to import this gun. The safety failed and ATF destroyed the gun. We had to have Uberti make us another one with a safety hammer. The gun passed the safety hammer test, however ATF has a point system they use. Points for the weight of the gun, bbl length, caliber etc. It failed, so we had to change the bbl length to 6”. The extra length and weight of a 6” bbl allowed it to pass ATF standards. And keep in mind this all took some time!!

We have this gun of order and do expect to see it December/January. We are also going to offer a 3.5” bbl the customer can purchase.

So at Shot Show 2019 we will have a 6” on display with a 3.5” bbl option to purchase.

I hope I made this a little more clear!!!

Let me know if you need further information and have a great day.

Valerie Knapp
Vice President/Sales
Cimarron Firearms Co., Inc.
830-997-9090

[email protected]
www.cimarron-firearms.com
https://www.facebook.com/cimarronfirearms
https://www.youtube.com/cimarronfa

RickB · September 25, 2018, 03:27 PM

Is this points system related to the one that had adjustable sights, extended mags and thumb-rest grips on imported pocket pistols in the '70s?
Teddy Kennedy's lasting legacy.

Model12Win · September 25, 2018, 05:47 PM

Wow...

So you have to buy the 3.5” bbl seperately... will it be a direct drop in replacement with proper gap?

**Aguila Blanca** · September 25, 2018, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RickB

Is this points system related to the one that had adjustable sights, extended mags and thumb-rest grips on imported pocket pistols in the '70s?

I'm sure it's the same points list -- the points system that's supposed to prevent the importation of "Saturday Night Specials." Once the gummint makes up a ruule, they don't willingly change it in a hurry (or at all).

https://www.atf.gov/file/61591/download

This is why all the imported "cowboy" revolvers have a second recess on the cylinder pin. Push the pin in far enough to engage the second notch and it blocks the hammer back so the firing pin doesn't make contact with the primer. The safety test specifically allows it to be manually operated for single action revolvers. This is also why the Heritage Rough Rider .22 revolver has that awful-looking cross-bolt-like safety ... it's an imported pistol, so it has to have some form of safety. But if they were to make the exact same gun in Dubuque, Iowa, no safety would be required. No, Mr. Spock, that is not logical.

Sure. Every ghetto rat wants to spend $500 on a 5-shot copy of a 150-year old cowboy revolver. (Can't even call it a "six shooter" if it only holds five rounds.)

Driftwood Johnson · September 25, 2018, 07:38 PM

Howdy

Regarding no loading gate:

When the gun is in battery, none of the chambers will line up with the loading gate slot. Just don't cock it with the muzzle pointing up or a round might slip out of the chamber while it rotates past the loading gate slot.

As was mentioned, this was done with several cartridge conversions in the past. Here is a Remington 1858 Cap & Ball revolver that has been converted to fire 32-30 cartridges. Notice there is no loading gate. The cartridges stay put unless the muzzle is pointed up while cocking the hammer.

September 22, 2018, 10:04 AM	#1
Bob Wright Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2012 Location: Memphis, Tennessee Posts: 2,989	Uberti .380 revolver............ I am hearing a lot about a forthcoming Uberti, a cartridge conversion of the 1849 Pocket Model. This a five shot Single Action revolver in .380 ACP. Supposedly the .380 was chosen for its rimless design, as the cylinder could not accommodate five rimed .38 caliber (.38 S&W?) cartridges. Anybody here abouts seen or have one? Sound absolutely intriguing! Bob Wright __________________ Time spent at the reloading bench is an investment in contentment.

September 22, 2018, 10:26 AM	#2
HighValleyRanch Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2005 Posts: 4,065	That would be cool! I'd get one. __________________ From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"

September 22, 2018, 11:55 AM	#4
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...cylinder could not accommodate..." That's not why. The difference in the base diameters of the 2 is .0125". Far more likely to be the relative availability of ammo. Anyway, Uberti is making an Model 1862 Police Conversion in .380 ACP. They've been making a "Conversion unit" since last year. There's a .32 S&W cylinder available for the 1849. $200 from .taylorsfirearms.com. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

September 22, 2018, 06:21 PM	#8
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	First - are you talking 38 S & W cartridge or 38 S & W "Special" ? Either way, my Lyman Cast Bullet Handbooks show the rim diameter of both of the above as .440. If Uberti is offering the '49 in .380 ACP - I would guess it's because of the easy availability of the ammo over the availability of 32 S & W Short/Long as far as walking in and buying it off he shelf. Either way, I'd be interested as I reload 380 and it would be a fun plinker. Conversion cylinders have been aviailable for the '49s, etc. for quite some time in 32 S & W. However, the only way I'd be interested if it was a true "gated" conversion. Breaking down an open top with a conversion cylinder juw5 eo3wn'5 qpp3ql 5o m3. If Ubertis is actually going to make the '49 in .380, I wouuld hope that they put an ejection rod on it. If not, make yourself a spot in your holster for an "ejection stick". :-) __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

September 22, 2018, 08:02 PM	#11
Bob Wright Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2012 Location: Memphis, Tennessee Posts: 2,989	I originally stated it was an "1849 Pocket Model." This was incorrect as the 1862 Police Model (and 1862 Pocket Navy) both had the rebated cylinder with milled out frames. This rebated cylinder, like the 1860 Army, allowed the guns to utilize the .36 caliber balls, hence "Navy caliber." The Army allowed the Army caliber to be built on a Navy frame. It was my understanding that the .38 S&W cartridge was given first, but scant, consideration. Actually, the Pocket Navy and Police Models were made from the .31 caliber 1849 Pocket Model frames. The 1849 frame was a slightly enlongated 1848 Pocket (Baby Dragoon) frame. Clear? __________________ Time spent at the reloading bench is an investment in contentment.

September 22, 2018, 10:39 AM	#3
the Black Spot Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2009 Location: arkansas Posts: 218	Would also be cool in that little remington pocket gun

September 22, 2018, 06:44 PM	#9
Buckeye! Senior Member Join Date: September 1, 2008 Posts: 849	https://www.gunsweek.com/en/pistols/...ocket-revolver Here is a article .. Im game

September 22, 2018, 07:34 PM	#10
sgms Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2010 Location: Arizona or Ohio depending Posts: 1,021	I in too. That should be one fun little gun.

September 22, 2018, 09:00 PM	#12
jcv Member Join Date: October 19, 2014 Posts: 35	It's been Coming Soon on the Cimarron website for months. I hope it actually appears.

September 23, 2018, 12:48 PM	#15
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	My apologies - when I made my post, I obviously had a "senior moment" as far as hitting the right keys! What I was gong to say was that an open top with a conversion cylinder that made it necessary to break it down to reload just didn't cut it as far as I was concerned. I have wlooked at the Howells - even have a nice hollow base .358 conical mold that would work well with them but having t o break down the open top has alyways put tie kibosh on it for me. In regards to the open loading gate - I'm going to go back and read the article that is linked - but an open gate wouldn't be much different than many of the open gated " Saturday night specials" that were produced in the late 1800s/early 1900's. Bob - yep, I understand what you're saying. The 62 pocket makes more sense if they are doing it in 380 acp. . . . especially "bore wise". .380 bores can vary so I wonder what they will end up with as far as the bore goes. A '62 Police/Pocket Navy would be a nice size revolver for the cartridge. Just thinking out loud here - maybe the article tells - but the small Taurus .380 utilized moon clips IIRC as do many of the 9mm revolvers for those cartridges that headspace on the mouth. I'm wondering how Uberti is going to address how it is loaded - and how to eject spent casings - ejection rod? And, will it be a "lead only" cartridge recommendation? __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

September 23, 2018, 04:12 PM	#16
TruthTellers Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2016 Posts: 3,883	I was interested when I heard about this revolver TWO YEARS AGO, but my interest has totally disappeared because if I wanted to shoot an 1849 or 1862 Pocket with cartridges, the .32 S&W cylinders are available and from what I've heard, the 1862 frames and arbors are compatible with 1849 barrels, cylinders, so you don't have to own an 1849 to use the .32 conversion with, you just need a barrel with the correct bore diameter. __________________ "We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."

September 23, 2018, 04:23 PM	#17
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	On the Yewbirdy site: https://www.ubertireplicas.com/produ...ce-conversion/ Still no explanation of the carts stay in the cylinders?

September 23, 2018, 09:00 PM	#18
105kw Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2017 Location: Columbia Basin Washington Posts: 413	Original Pocket Police and Pocket Navy were built with or without a loading gate. Calibers were .38 rimfire or center-fire(38 short and long Colt) Many different variations, some factory conversion, some built as cartridge. Really cool guns. I'm going to scope this out.

September 25, 2018, 03:27 PM	#20
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	Is this points system related to the one that had adjustable sights, extended mags and thumb-rest grips on imported pocket pistols in the '70s? Teddy Kennedy's lasting legacy. __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.

September 25, 2018, 05:47 PM	#21
Model12Win Junior member Join Date: October 20, 2012 Posts: 5,854	Wow... So you have to buy the 3.5” bbl seperately... will it be a direct drop in replacement with proper gap?

September 25, 2018, 07:38 PM	#23
Driftwood Johnson Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2014 Location: Land of the Pilgrims Posts: 2,033	Howdy Regarding no loading gate: When the gun is in battery, none of the chambers will line up with the loading gate slot. Just don't cock it with the muzzle pointing up or a round might slip out of the chamber while it rotates past the loading gate slot. As was mentioned, this was done with several cartridge conversions in the past. Here is a Remington 1858 Cap & Ball revolver that has been converted to fire 32-30 cartridges. Notice there is no loading gate. The cartridges stay put unless the muzzle is pointed up while cocking the hammer.

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