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Old January 8, 2019, 11:50 AM   #26
jmhyer
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I think the only way this pistol makes any real waves is if it turns out to be as reliable as a Glock or M&P and the street price comes in at $350 or less.
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Old January 8, 2019, 11:51 AM   #27
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I like the looks of it. It sounds like a nice addition to the concealed carry market and I look forward to giving one a try. I agree that that the row hoeing will be challenging for it in a very tough field.

TBM900 it is possible that you have vision greater than me and others, but I am also not convinced that the sky is falling in regard to handgun capacity limits. As Tunnelrat said that market represents a very large pie. Even a small piece is potentially worth significant profit. You've made your point. This thread is about Mossberg's new pistol not gun control.
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Old January 8, 2019, 11:52 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by jmhyer View Post
I think the only way this pistol makes any real waves is if it turns out to be as reliable as a Glock or M&P and the street price comes in at $350 or less.
Problem with that is you can find the Shield 2.0 for that price with some degree of regularity. I wonder what price it needs to overcome the familiarity of those other designs?

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Old January 8, 2019, 04:24 PM   #29
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In response to those voicing reservations about Mossberg entering the market:

1. Unlike Remington before it entered the handgun market, Mossberg has maintained a solid reputation for good firearms at reasonable prices.

2. Unlike Remington which took an unusual (and old) design approach, Mossberg has added tweaks to handguns known to be reliable. Obviously, they can fail in the execution, but, teething issues aside, I forsee a reliable handgun.

3. The polymer handguns are relatively cheap to make and I'm guessing Mossberg doesn't have a ton of money tied up in R&D. That means they can make a profit at a lower volume than some or at a lower price point than some.

4. The ability to use Glock 43 mags would seem a pretty big deal to me if I had a Glock 43 and wanted to try another gun. I would not have to reinvest all that money on mags.

The clear mags are definitely a gimmick, but some people will like
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Old January 8, 2019, 04:52 PM   #30
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I think it's about time somebody came up with a polymer-framed, single stack 9mm pistol!

Honestly it's very, very difficult to see what isn't "hey, look, another one" about this pistol. P365 may not have changed the game completely, but it does change the expectation about what's possible in a given space. Glock will push out a 43X and 48 and everyone is already asking what's novel about that -- and the answer is nothing. It's almost like, why make a brand new product and come to the market if you can't at least match that?

There's very little left that someone can innovate with in this segment. Sig has increased capacity. More and more are shipping with standard night sights. Walther has topped their PPS with a subcompact red dot sight.

I dunno. It might be the best single stack 9 ever created, but it can't be THAT much better than what's already out there. Seems like a very uphill battle to fight for a company known for shotguns. I'm sure I'll try one out if I come across a rental, but I just can't imagine it's enough superior to the PPS I already have that I'd consider buying one.
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Old January 8, 2019, 05:48 PM   #31
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You've made your point. This thread is about Mossberg's new pistol not gun control.
Then why do people (including yourself) keep bringing it up?

Again, I responded specifically to somome wondering about such an entry into today's market, and gave my opinion based on personal observations based speaking quite a number of manufacturers over the last two years.....then moved on. But my opinion seems to have triggered a few people that then chose to try and create a debate. I moved in after the first post, yet you brought it up....again.

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Old January 8, 2019, 05:50 PM   #32
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Then why do people (including yourself) keep bringing it up?
Again, I responded specifically to somome wondering about such an entry into today's market, and gave my opinion based on personal observations based speaking quite a number of manufacturers over the last two years. This seemed to have triggered a few people that then chose to try and creat a debate. I moved in after the first post, yet you brought it up....again.
Who exactly was triggered? I personally made a grand total of three responses that I felt weren't either confrontational or controversial.

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Old January 8, 2019, 05:57 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by OhioGuy View Post
I think it's about time somebody came up with a polymer-framed, single stack 9mm pistol!

Honestly it's very, very difficult to see what isn't "hey, look, another one" about this pistol. P365 may not have changed the game completely, but it does change the expectation about what's possible in a given space. Glock will push out a 43X and 48 and everyone is already asking what's novel about that -- and the answer is nothing. It's almost like, why make a brand new product and come to the market if you can't at least match that?

There's very little left that someone can innovate with in this segment. Sig has increased capacity. More and more are shipping with standard night sights. Walther has topped their PPS with a subcompact red dot sight.

I dunno. It might be the best single stack 9 ever created, but it can't be THAT much better than what's already out there. Seems like a very uphill battle to fight for a company known for shotguns. I'm sure I'll try one out if I come across a rental, but I just can't imagine it's enough superior to the PPS I already have that I'd consider buying one.
There is always room for more and I was glad to see their entry.
Pondering such would be like saying...."Why is Ford/Chevy/Toyota bringing the ______ to the U.S. market as it is already saturated with vehicles." They wouldn't be doing it if they didn't believe they could compete in the current market or their perceived notion of future markets. Same for this entry.

I'm pretty stoked about it frankly, not because I think it will be the next big wonder-whatever, but simply because it is something different, choices are good. From what I could tell in handling it, I think it will be able to compete so long as reliability stays on top. When I spoke with them last year about it they eluded to Remington's R51 issues and how they were doing everything they could to not let that happen to them.

Hopefully it will be a winner.
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Old January 8, 2019, 05:59 PM   #34
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Who exactly was triggered? I personally made a grand total of three responses that I felt weren't either confrontational or controversial.

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Here we go again.....

But I'm moving on....again
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Old January 8, 2019, 06:00 PM   #35
Carl the Floor Walker
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I think the only way this pistol makes any real waves is if it turns out to be as reliable as a Glock or M&P and the street price comes in at $350 or less.
There are many Pistols every bit as reliable as the Shield and Glock. That is such a mute point. Yes, if this gun actually shoots better than a Glock, with more features which it does have and at a better price point, then why knock it? The 1911 has had man different but similar models, the Ruger LCP was risen from the Keltec.
Maybe Glocks are getting stale. It seems there are more and more post alluding to this. More folks reporting failure. Glock has had a good run. Something always comes along that is a little bit better.
Mossberg just might be the one to clock the Glock.
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Old January 8, 2019, 06:00 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by KyJim View Post
In response to those voicing reservations about Mossberg entering the market:



1. Unlike Remington before it entered the handgun market, Mossberg has maintained a solid reputation for good firearms at reasonable prices.



2. Unlike Remington which took an unusual (and old) design approach, Mossberg has added tweaks to handguns known to be reliable. Obviously, they can fail in the execution, but, teething issues aside, I forsee a reliable handgun.



3. The polymer handguns are relatively cheap to make and I'm guessing Mossberg doesn't have a ton of money tied up in R&D. That means they can make a profit at a lower volume than some or at a lower price point than some.



4. The ability to use Glock 43 mags would seem a pretty big deal to me if I had a Glock 43 and wanted to try another gun. I would not have to reinvest all that money on mags.



The clear mags are definitely a gimmick, but some people will like
I don't have anything against Mossberg. I've had mixed luck with their customer service but pretty good luck with their products. I have some confidence that this will likely be a solid entry for them. My comments comparing it to the rest of the market isn't meant to imply this will be a junk product, just an acknowledgement that they have to fight a lack of recognition in this segment where there are already solid contenders.

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Old January 8, 2019, 06:01 PM   #37
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The cross bolt safety is intriguing on a pistol. Has that ever been done before? I've never seen it if it has. Not sure if I'd like that. They(Mossberg) have engineered a handgun that utilizes existing mags and sights. That means they don't have to fuss with developing accessories.
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Old January 8, 2019, 06:04 PM   #38
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Here we go again.....



But I'm moving on....again
Ah, the old make statements without supporting them and then when people question you on them you respond with the lazy, "Well I shouldn't have to explain it", routine. As for moving on, I've been responding to posts actually about this product for some time. I only responded to you now because I'm curious how exactly trying to have a conversation qualified as being triggered in your view. That comment didn't strike me as "moving on", but if that's what you want I'm all for it.

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Old January 8, 2019, 06:05 PM   #39
TBM900
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Originally Posted by KyJim View Post
In response to those voicing reservations about Mossberg entering the market:

1. Unlike Remington before it entered the handgun market, Mossberg has maintained a solid reputation for good firearms at reasonable prices.

2. Unlike Remington which took an unusual (and old) design approach, Mossberg has added tweaks to handguns known to be reliable. Obviously, they can fail in the execution, but, teething issues aside, I forsee a reliable handgun.

3. The polymer handguns are relatively cheap to make and I'm guessing Mossberg doesn't have a ton of money tied up in R&D. That means they can make a profit at a lower volume than some or at a lower price point than some.

4. The ability to use Glock 43 mags would seem a pretty big deal to me if I had a Glock 43 and wanted to try another gun. I would not have to reinvest all that money on mags.

The clear mags are definitely a gimmick, but some people will like
I'm with you on Remington.
After seeing their folly with their line of Remlins and all the problems, I was shocked to hear they were going to try a pistol again. I immediatly saw visions of all the crappy QC they were putting out and suspected the pistol would follow suit.....and it did.

But as you stated Mossberg has been staying on top of their QC so I don't have the same suspect eye towards the MC1 or what will soon follow. I suspect they are on the right track.
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Old January 8, 2019, 06:07 PM   #40
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Panic at the Disco says, "It's all been done, but we haven't seen the best of it...it...it.....it."
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Old January 8, 2019, 06:10 PM   #41
TBM900
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Originally Posted by Carl the Floor Walker View Post
There are many Pistols every bit as reliable as the Shield and Glock. That is such a mute point. Yes, if this gun actually shoots better than a Glock, with more features which it does have and at a better price point, then why knock it? The 1911 has had man different but similar models, the Ruger LCP was risen from the Keltec.
Maybe Glocks are getting stale. It seems there are more and more post alluding to this. More folks reporting failure. Glock has had a good run. Something always comes along that is a little bit better.
Mossberg just might be the one to clock the Glock.
You nailed it with price point.
Sit back and wait for everyone else to spend their capital doing much of the dirty work, then jump in with a better price point and modest improvements/differences. Wouldnt be the first time in business
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Old January 8, 2019, 06:46 PM   #42
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But I'm moving on....again
Now that is funny. It's as if you don't know what moving on means! I'll think I will now move on. It really isn't that difficult.
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Old January 8, 2019, 08:26 PM   #43
Carl the Floor Walker
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Originally Posted by GarandTd View Post
The cross bolt safety is intriguing on a pistol. Has that ever been done before? I've never seen it if it has. Not sure if I'd like that. They(Mossberg) have engineered a handgun that utilizes existing mags and sights. That means they don't have to fuss with developing accessories.
Actually there is a after marker product cross bolt for the Glock. It looks difficult to put in, and again a after market piece. Mossberg had the insight to see this and incorporate into the new gun as a option.
I normally do not like cross bolts on rifle and shotguns, but have to say that on a pistol, cold be a whole new ball game. And many, many folks always disparaged the Glock for safety reason.
Sounds like Mossberg is way ahead of the game. I am beginning to like the cross bolt idea.

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Old January 8, 2019, 08:33 PM   #44
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Moving right along...
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Old January 8, 2019, 11:32 PM   #45
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I got to say that for myself I don't consider a cross bolt safety to mean Mossberg is way ahead of the game.

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Old January 8, 2019, 11:41 PM   #46
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Deleted. Didn't make much sense.
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Old January 8, 2019, 11:42 PM   #47
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Not saying that Mossberg is way ahead of the game, but thinking outside of the box....
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Old January 8, 2019, 11:43 PM   #48
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Not saying that Mossberg is way ahead of the game, but thinking outside of the box....
I didn't say you did, someone else did.

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Old January 8, 2019, 11:58 PM   #49
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Moving right along...
It's funny because it's true.

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Old January 9, 2019, 03:17 AM   #50
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Let's assume for a moment that technically it is everything Mossberg says it is.

Does it change anything in the game? Its entering an already overcrowded field of strike fired polymer sub compact firearms by taking aim at the benchmark* already there. Its going to enter a tremendously crowded array of guns that have already done that. How does it change anything?

As noted by others above the last "game changer" was the P365 which forced Glock to respond and adjust to the 43X. If I'm a Glock marketer and I am handed this press release and spec sheet I kind of shrug my shoulders and go "and?" because its not worth even worrying about.

*please note that I am using the term benchmark as just that. It is not intended to convey some sense of quality. When someone is talking "striker fired polymer pistol" the benchmark that everyone else measures themselves against is almost always Glock.
It's a 9mm pistol that uses Glock mags that costs $100 less than Glock, has a safety, and isn't a Glock.

That's the gamechanger right there.

I look at other single stack 9's and ask the same question, but what this Mossberg pistol is telling me is it can use 12 round mags which are made for the Glock 43.
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