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Old January 4, 2019, 09:48 AM   #76
JERRYS.
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I haven't met a quality handgun that I didn't like and shoot reasonably well. I like Glocks for what they are. I like the knock-off copies of most guns until they add extra "safety" stuff that I think is un-needed.... like with the Ruger LC9 magazine disconnector, Springfield XDs grip safety, S&W revolver locks....

not all people are competent with firearms. not all "gun people" are competent with all firearms.

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Old January 4, 2019, 09:49 AM   #77
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The one guy who almost shoot me was with a 1911. He was told to make ready. Which means chamber a round and put on the safety, then holster.

Well, on holster - Bang - a foot from my foot and inches from the other range officer. Then the gentleman starts waving the gun saying: Wha Happen.

He was grabbed by the other range officer and was DQ'ed.

Nothing really new in this thread either. Buy and train up with what you like.

I've seen every type of semi go belly up at times. A Beretta 92 had its lever shoot off to the side during a high end class. We had to look for it in the dirt and rocks.
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Old January 4, 2019, 10:02 AM   #78
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Folks are trying to get around something that they know is true but they don't like the taste of it.

Every type handgun from a single action and da revolvers to the Beretta 92, third generation Smiths and Sigs and the 1911 all have features that require specific training to get used to and to learn how to handle safely. All have specific characteristics as it were. Glocks are no different.

If you deny it ya lie to yourself.

A shooter is weaker if they don't take the time to learn the strengths and vulnerable elements of any pistol design.

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Old January 4, 2019, 10:19 AM   #79
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If you have your head up your rear handling a firearm, someone could pay dearly, that’s how unintentional discharges happen and that is the one one thing all firearms have in common. Yep, when you become complacent bad things happen.
Manufacturer, the type of action a firearm has, safeties no safeties etc..etc..are irrelevant, it’s up to you to familiarize yourself with that firearm and train with it. I was unfortunate enough to be around two unintentional discharges in one day involving M&P .40’s, the first was during reholstering and not clearing their trigger finger, the second involved trying to catch the firearm when it was dropped. Both human error, one excepted responsibility for the unintentional discharge one blamed the gun.
Unintentional discharges involve human error, of course there rare exceptions to that. As for me, my carry gun will never have an external safety, I will leave the safety for my long guns and single action auto’s.

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Old January 4, 2019, 10:37 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by tipoc View Post
Folks are trying to get around something that they know is true but they don't like the taste of it.



Every type handgun from a single action and da revolvers to the Beretta 92, third generation Smiths and Sigs and the 1911 all have features that require specific training to get used to and to learn how to handle safely. All have specific characteristics as it were. Glocks are no different.



If you deny it ya lie to yourself.



A shooter is weaker if they don't take the time to learn the strengths and vulnerable elements of any pistol design.



tipoc
I don't change my handling of a firearm when it comes to safety as a result of the firearm's own safeties. Just because a pistol with a manual safety might afford me more leeway than a Glock doesn't mean I start putting my finger on the trigger when I don't have to. It doesn't mean I don't check my holster for obstructions before I holster the pistol. It doesn't mean I don't check the chamber before disassembling even if I don't have to press the trigger. I'm not sure how this is lying to myself. Are there differences in the manual of arms? Yes. I don't allow those to make me complacent.

I'll add that the manual of arms we're discussing here is not unique to Glock.

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Old January 4, 2019, 10:55 AM   #81
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I've read that the DA/SA guns had some folks resting their finger on the trigger as the first shot had a heavier pull, so they felt safer. (That's risky, what a breakthough. The ergonomic research demonstrates that various yips can cause a startle that easily overcomes the DA pull). However, after firing a DA shot, they rested their finger on the now SA pull for an easier ND. Don't have a case, just read it somewhere.
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Old January 4, 2019, 10:58 AM   #82
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I wouldn’t fault glock for their triggers. People are horribly irresponsible when it comes to firearm safety. I CRINGE when new shooters are given 1911s or DA/SA to start out with

Oh man don’t even get me started on revolvers. How many people wrap their palm around the cylinder gap while pulling back the hammer into single action
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Old January 4, 2019, 11:11 AM   #83
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The second is in disassembling the gun for cleaning when the trigger is pulled and a round is still in the chamber.
Quote:
The second type of discharge is particular to Glocks. Though again other guns have been fired when being disassembled but it is not as common as with Glocks due to the Glocks design.
Had to look it up since I used to own a Ruger LC9S and have a Ruger LCP..and both, you have to squeeze trigger to reassemble on both, like the Glock...
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Old January 4, 2019, 11:11 AM   #84
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There is less room for error in a DA/SA handgun. Let's be honest. But you can have an ND with just about any platform anyway.

I had 1 ND with my Glock a while back. Just minor property damage and nothing more, thankfully. Wouldn't have happened with a DA as easily. I even remember the slow motion of "oh *explicit* that's not good".

I still carry striker-fired pistols and DA/SA pistols.
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Old January 4, 2019, 03:16 PM   #85
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I remain of the opinion that casual handling, complacency, and inattention are greater risks to safety than any reasonable handgun design. I have owned a Glock and handled it almost daily for several years without an accident. I pay attention when I am handling it or any firearm, and I use good holsters that keep their shape. I have an elderly friend whose son killed his grandson, supposedly while cleaning. The pistol was a 1911, with the well-known thumb safety and grip safety. Knowledge and attention are the only real ways to keep firearms safe, and they are reliable.
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Old January 4, 2019, 03:47 PM   #86
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Concern about Glock triggers is legitimate. It is a valid reason for not choosing a Glock as a primary carry. It's as valid a concern as many objections to da/sa triggers ("learning two different trigger pulls is hard") or single action pistols with external safeties ("I might forget to flick the safety off" or "lowering the hammer on a pistol can be dangerous", etc.).

When folks explain that Glocks are perfectly safe as long as the shooter keeps their finger off the trigger, well that's true. But as Hamlet said, "ay there's the rub".
Well said, tipoc. It's not that Glock-type (or their kin) triggers/safties are inherently unsafe-they aren't. But, imo, they are less "forgiving" than other designs are.
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Old January 4, 2019, 04:55 PM   #87
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When I was young and stupid, I had a completely negligent discharge with a DA/SA pistol.
No harm done, but as a result, I treat all firearms as loaded and ready to fire whenever I handle one.
I treat all firearms the same, with no special precautions for my Glock’s.
The idea that someone would pull the trigger to disassemble a Glock without first checking the chamber is inconceivable.
My feeling is that a lot of the claimed “Glock cleaning accidents” are really covering for people playing with their pistol, not cleaning them.
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Old January 4, 2019, 05:16 PM   #88
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There is less room for error in a DA/SA handgun. Let's be honest. But you can have an ND with just about any platform anyway.
The one ND I had was with a bolt-action 30-06. Fortunately, it was at a range and barrel was pointing down range like it should have been. The cardboard target backstop was right in front of the barrel and it was completely destroyed. I absentmindedly pulled the trigger ASSUMING that no round was chambered. Quite a wake-up call.

My take away from that experience is that ND's do happen, even to experienced shooters. If I were in combat, I'd likely choose a Glock with a hard nylon holster. But, since I'm a civilian, I prefer DAO and DA/SA to the Glock action. Just my preference and comfort level, that's all.

I do, however, have to wonder why Glock doesn't make some of their compact models with a thumb-safety option? I know an aftermarket device is available, https://www.brownells.com/handgun-pa...-prod5532.aspx
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Old January 4, 2019, 06:35 PM   #89
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In other words, you need a specific kind of holster that acts as an external safety to safely carry a Glock.
I consider a rigid/semi-rigid holster that completely protects the trigger to be part of the safety system of any pistol without a manual safety.

I will not carry a Glock, Kahr, or any other gun with a similar manual of arms, in a soft holster, in a pocket without a holster, or tucked into a waistband.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tipoc
Every type handgun from a single action and da revolvers to the Beretta 92, third generation Smiths and Sigs and the 1911 all have features that require specific training to get used to and to learn how to handle safely. All have specific characteristics as it were. Glocks are no different.
Very well said. It's hard to avoid potential pitfalls that you're not aware of.
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Old January 5, 2019, 06:56 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Skans View Post
The one ND I had was with a bolt-action 30-06. Fortunately, it was at a range and barrel was pointing down range like it should have been. The cardboard target backstop was right in front of the barrel and it was completely destroyed. I absentmindedly pulled the trigger ASSUMING that no round was chambered. Quite a wake-up call.

My take away from that experience is that ND's do happen, even to experienced shooters. If I were in combat, I'd likely choose a Glock with a hard nylon holster. But, since I'm a civilian, I prefer DAO and DA/SA to the Glock action. Just my preference and comfort level, that's all.

I do, however, have to wonder why Glock doesn't make some of their compact models with a thumb-safety option? I know an aftermarket device is available, https://www.brownells.com/handgun-pa...-prod5532.aspx
I don't no where this quote came from but it is ingrained into my memory

"there are two kinds of shooters, those who have had an AD and those who will"...I assume by "shooter" it means guys who shoot a lot not just gun owners...

Maybe the quote should be rule #5
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Old January 5, 2019, 12:11 PM   #91
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Send your Glock to Ten Ring Precision and have them install a Cominolli Safety on your Glock. It doesn't void the warranty. Works like a charm if you want a manual safety.
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Old January 5, 2019, 02:21 PM   #92
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trigger fingers and cheap holsters are why people are having negligent discharges? this seems like an easy problem to remedy.
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Old January 5, 2019, 05:15 PM   #93
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I got to thinking about this, and noticed that while there is a lot of discussion about how to "fix" this or that, or how overcome some disadvantage, and how this or that is a good or a bad thing, very little seems to be looking at what a person LIKES or dislikes.

A lot of it seems to imply that, even though you may not like this, or that, Glocks are good, and you should use them. I won't argue that they aren't good, or that they don't work well, but why should I put up with something that I don't like, just because someone else does like it?

I don't like some things some people call "art". I don't like some kinds of humor. I don't like some kinds of music. I don't like certain foods. I'm a grouchy curmudgeon, I suppose, but I know what I like, and what I don't. I don't mind someone preaching to the faithful, but I do dislike someone trying to convert me to their beliefs.

I don't have an issue with people discussing what they like or don't like about certain guns, I just don't care for those who defend their particular likes when that's not the matter under discussion. If I don't like anchovies on my pizza, please don't tell me about how good anchovies are. Accept that my opinion is my opinion, and move on.

Feel free to disagree with my opinion, for you and yours, that's your right , just remember that what is right for you, is not right for me.
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Old January 5, 2019, 05:51 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tipoc:
Every type handgun from a single action and da revolvers to the Beretta 92, third generation Smiths and Sigs and the 1911 all have features that require specific training to get used to and to learn how to handle safely. All have specific characteristics as it were. Glocks are no different.
The majority of police departments issue Glocks to their officers. This doesn’t happen beacause they are the best service weapons. These work for the intended purposes that law enforcement requires. And police departments and ultimately the taxpayers get a better deal when they buy Glocks over other makes. The LEOs I know are all well trained and can shoot their duty pistols well.

Back East, the veteran cops squawked like crazy when they were told that their Model 60 revolvers were being replaced with Glocks. So much so that the veterans were allowed to keep their revolvers while the younger cops had to carry the Glocks. Fast forward several years and the cops complain about crime in the streets but not about their service pistols.
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Old January 6, 2019, 10:06 AM   #95
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I guess the thing I like the least about glock is how many other major manufacturers are
mindlessly cash-whoring, by copying the glock design,in order to grab a piece of the glock
market, instead of making a better, newer design pistol of their own.
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Old January 6, 2019, 11:50 AM   #96
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Oh come on. What's the newer, better design, so easily manufactured?

Going to complain about Kimber or Taurus coming up with new snubbies, given the success of the J frames. Colt reissuing theirs?

Look at cars - the roads are full of the same SUV from every manfacturer out there. Heck, there are pizza places opening up all over instead of coming up with a newer and better food item to eat with beer. Beer - zillions of derivative micro brews.

Last - companies want to make money by making things that sell? I guess we would be better off when Wayne LaPierre's socialist wave arrives and that motive is gone.
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Old January 6, 2019, 12:14 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Danoobie View Post
I guess the thing I like the least about glock is how many other major manufacturers are
mindlessly cash-whoring, by copying the glock design,in order to grab a piece of the glock
market, instead of making a better, newer design pistol of their own.
Honestly, it may be pretty tough to come up with a considerably better gun than the Glock for its intended market and price point.

And again, I’m far from a Glock fan but, they are tough, reliable, reasonably accurate and easy to maintain and repair.
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Old January 6, 2019, 12:17 PM   #98
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Great Point Glenn and one I just made on another forum. The Market is not crowed, it is that almost every one of these guns have their own uniqueness. Grips, Triggers, sights, recoil, OAL, and on and on.
I am a die Hard Nano fan. The gun fits me in every catagory I desired in a Micro 9mm. It is different than others, just like the Shield, the 938 and on and on are different.

While I have not been a fan of the Glock for various reason, they are great guns, just not for me. While I never thought I would be looking at another Micro to add to my stable, I have to say the New Mossberg MC1 which is going directly after the Glock has really caught my attention. And I am loving it. If it shoots well, I am a buyer. And by the way, it did shoot very well when tested by many fine shooters at the Gunsight Range for review. One shooter doing well at 50yds, which shows this gun if very capable.

I really believe that when you here folks say "Over crowded Market", it is simply because they are like Parrots repeating internet junk.


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Old January 6, 2019, 04:17 PM   #99
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I guess I'm a parrot. I do think the market is very crowded. That doesn't mean I think these designs are bad, I just wonder which will still be here in another 10 years or so. There are certainly a lot of shooters so options are far from a bad thing. But I think handgun technology has plateaued for some time now and there are a lot of derivative products.

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Old January 6, 2019, 05:08 PM   #100
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What do you want. A gun that shoots Gamma Ray's? Something that George Jetson would be shooting? How does a over crowded market actually affect you? Sure doesn't me. Glad to see new designs all the time. And obviously we are seeing that. Love the way the striker can be removed on the New Mossberg. A over crowed market, means more innovation and they are coming down the road. Just pay attention.
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