Curious revolver

[Mule27]

This is my first post, so if I'm missing protocol on posting an intro or something, please school me and I'll correct my bad behavior.

A friend asked me for info on this revolver. I have not seen the piece and have no info beyond what she gave me, which I'll detail below the pic:



It's about 14 1/2" oal, they gave me the weight at approx. 9 lbs and it's a smoothbore barrel, approx. .45 caliber. Cylinder held 12 rounds. German manufacture allegedly, pre WWI (deduced from the proof markings). The markings were given to me as:

2 ga NGP. M/7m

on the cylinder. No markings reported on either the frame or the barrel. The trigger looks like it should fold but it doesn't.

Any info would be hugely appreciated...thanks in advance.

[hivel37]

Maybe it needs to go to Harley Nolden's corner of our world.

[aarondhgraham]

For no other reason that it looks Gaul-ish.

[Mule27]

I don't know the decorum here...could a moderator or admin move the thread to "Curios and Relics" if that's the more appropriate place for it, please?

[4INCHSMITH]

Some kind of tripwire gun or something? It doesn't look like it has any grips or even a crude handle, and the non-folding trigger with that little loop on the end of it. Looks like you could tie some sort of cord to it. I don't understand why it holds 12 shots though. If I had set it off and realized why I had heard a shot all of a sudden. I sure as heck wouldn't pull the darn cord 11 more times.

[dgludwig]

I doubt you see many of these much on the lines at Camp Perry and it probably wasn't made by Smith & Wesson . Other than that little bit of insight, I haven't a clue-though, I do agree with aarondhgraham in that I suspect it was made in Belgium or France or some such place. Gary, Indiana comes to mind. In any event, welcome to TFL, Mule27. You'll get the right answer soon enough, I'll bet.

[Scrapperz]

Looks like something out of a "Saw" movie.

[hickstick_10]

hmmmmmmm this IS an od bird.

My unqualified 2 cents its eather a gun used grape and orchard farmers to scare birds away (such a thing is still used today but more along the lines of an automatic shotgun), and shot blank loads or its an old "alarm system" if you will, if a poacher stepped on a wire connected to the trigger, the resulting (and hopefully harmless) bang would have alerted the game warden.

Im almost 100 percent sure it was made in europe whatever the hell it is.

[Mule27]

I thought some sort of warning device too, but why the long barrel then? Another gentleman at another forum suggested a type of vehicle mounted flare gun, which would fit the smoothbore, but again why the barrel length? And as 4INCHSMITH said, weren't most "warning" devices like this single shot?

Plus the lack of military markings on it throws me...if it were a ship's "sounding" pistol, or vehicle mounted flare gun, or something, you'd think you'd find a military stamp on it somewhere.

Thanks for all the brainstorming folks, it's all helpful, really.

[SDC]

Have you looked at the rear of the cylinder? Being French, Belgian, or German, the cylinder would almost certainly bear proof marks on the back of the cylinder.

[James K]

I am going to go way out on this one and suggest a small bore artillery simulator. The round barrel, without sights, would fit a bushing in the chamber of the artillery piece, and the trigger would be pulled by the normal lanyard. There would be a bang and a bullet would hit a target. Better for training than just hollering "bang" and it could be used on an indoor range in bad weather.

Jim

[walter in florida]

I looked through one of my gun books and found that a lot of Belgian VELO-DOG revolvers had that type of trigger, however they folded under the frame. At least it got us interested. Sorry I could not be of much help.





d

[mapsjanhere]

Could this be some kind of oversized percussion cap gun for bag-loaded artillery?

[dgludwig]

A Fitz Special?

[Avenger]

I would guess that it COULD be some kind of sub-caliber training device, but the few of those that I have seen were usually mounted ON the barrel (and there doesn't seem to be a way to do that with this gun.) The ones that go in the chamber or bore were usually rifle caliber, and had flanges of about the bore size so that when the device was fired it would not strike the side of the bore. I don't see a reason to use a repeater in training either, since the crew would be doing the full exercise of the firing cycle. They would simply reach into the chamber and cycle the action of the sub-cal instead of inserting a shell.

It looks like there are some kind of possible block mounts on the frame below the front of the cylinder, and about where the rear sight would be.

[James K]

All true, Avenger, but loading the sub-caliber usually didn't involve reaching into the chamber. Remember the M1903A2, with the action sticking out the back of the tube?

One thing for sure about that gun. It is interesting and puzzling.

Jim

[alloy]

Almost looks like the barrel's step could fit into some kind of collet. And smoothbore?

Interesting.

[Avenger]

I think Alloy has it right, it looks like the barrel goes into WHATEVER, then the blocks I mentioned are used to secure it in place. SO...maybe a sub-cal that goes in place of the igniter assembly in the breech piece?

Or some kind of gas boiler igniter, using the flash from the cartridge to light the flame? <---seems an odd way to do it, but...

[Series70]

Nine Pounds??!!

Pretty much lets out concealed carry, doesn't it?

[surbat6]

The weight would seem to rule out the Velo Dog, too. Not too many bicycle riders want a nine pound gun to "discourage" dogs!

[Dingo Steelwell]

I would have to say that it looks quite similar to what was described as a "burglar alarm gun" sold in 1907.
I get this from my latest issue of G&A (May 2010) <top of page 31>
I can only guess that the smooth bore would be acredited to either the guns age or that it was meant to fire some kind of shot, rather than a bullet. (or was meant for blanks)

shoot safe, shoot straight, shoot often
Dingo

[B. Lahey]

I saw a photo of one of those mounted on the bow of a small boat once.

[TheLoneGunman]

A buddy of mine has the exact same revolver, with the same markings as you've described. In addition, on his there is also a U with a double crown. The gun is most definitely German. The first crown represented the Beschuss pressure test, the second crown belonged to the Untersuchung inspection of the arm's parts that had been the subject to the high pressure. Based on the proof marks, it was made between 1891 and 1899. The German proof houses from that time period may have been the Ulm or Obendorf inspections. My friend believes that it was made to be mounted on a boat/ship and used as a sounder. Both he and I would be curious to know if you have found out anything else in the past several years...

[Scorch]

Looks like the guns they used to knock scale off of coking ovens.

[indie_rocker]

Originally Posted by Scorch

Looks like the guns they used to knock scale off of coking ovens.

Or used to fire shot for cleaning smoke stacks. It is my understanding that firearms like this were purpose built so they would be hard to sneak out of the workplace and difficult to operate one-handed. It could explain it's excessive weight, lack of a traditional grip and odd trigger.