1911 MSH pin hole widening?

[TestedTwice]

Hello everybody. So I recently picked up a new stainless steel Springfield Mil-Spec 1911. I went to disassemble it entirely to make sure everything was properly oiled but made the mistake of using a torx bit as a punch for the mainspring housing pin. It mangled the pin really bad and I got a replacement pin on the way.

I noticed that the frame directly around the pin hole is denting and dinging up. Not horribly, but you can definitely see it if you really look for it. This made me worry about the future of this gun; is it possible to widen the hole so bad that the pin doesn’t stay in? I know the pin retainer at the bottom of the MSH should prevent this, but is it possible for the pin hole to “stretch” out by removing the pin too much? This is just my paranoia talking. I don’t want to ruin my gun.

Also, do you guys have any tips for removing and inserting the MSH pin? This pin is by FAR the most difficult part about disassembling a 1911. I always have an incredibly difficult time with it. Perhaps I should invest in a rubber mallet? I always see people on YouTube removing and inserting this pin with absolute ease, so I’m wondering if I’m doing something wrong.

[tangolima]

I wouldn't worry about it. You won't ruin the whole gun. At most, which is highly unlikely, you just need to replace the main spring housing.

The pin is loaded by the main spring. To remove it, you need to remove the load first by slightly compressing the main spring. In fact you don't need to do that unless something is wrong with the main spring.

-TL

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[JohnKSa]

Also, do you guys have any tips for removing and inserting the MSH pin?

Yes. Stop doing it. There is absolutely no need to fully disassemble a 1911 to maintain it properly.

I once talked to a guy who taught an advanced armorer certification class for a particular line of pistols. We were discussing maintenance and he made the comment that he almost never detail strips his pistols. Obviously he's capable and qualified to do so--it's just that there's almost never an actual need for that level of maintenance.

[TestedTwice]

Originally Posted by JohnKSa

Yes. Stop doing it. There is absolutely no need to fully disassemble a 1911 to maintain it properly.

I once talked to a guy who taught an advanced armorer certification class for a particular line of pistols. We were discussing maintenance and he made the comment that he almost never detail strips his pistols. Obviously he's capable and qualified to do so--it's just that there's almost never an actual need for that level of maintenance.

So since you're telling me to stop doing it, does this imply that removing the pin can damage the firearm?

[HiBC]

Just my opinion:
Don't take it apart unless there is reason to take it apart...
But then if I'm going into the sear,sear spring,grip safety,etc...the mainspring housing gets removed.
If SA located the holes properly in the frame and mainspring housing,the holes are aligned.
If you use makeshift tools (torx drivers,nails,drywall screws,or even a fine Starret square ended drift punch, you can do damage.The mainspring puts aside load on,and the DIY kitchen table punch becomes a cutting edge that broaches the hole.
Its not a problem with the JMB design or the gun.Its the claw hammer with one claw broke off and beating the wrong punch tool through.
Don't do that.
First,have the hammer down.Uncocked.That takes most of the load off.

I put some pressure on the bottom of the MSH to further take the mainspring load off.

Now I'll tell you how to use your eyes and your mind.LOOK at your mainspring pin. One end is rounded nicely.The other end has a round,cup shaped dimple.

If you have what it takes to work on pistols,you can read the signs to know the punch needs to be an easy slip fit ,but still close enough to use for a slave pin.

And your punch will have a nice,accurate,spherical ,polished end on it,to fit nicely ito the pocket in the pin.

Once you can see that much,you MIGHT figure out how it works.I have one with a screw driver handle. No hammer.I push the pin through. Amazing.

Now,Reassembly time? When I have the sear spring and strut and grip safety all positioned and I press the MSH on in to position, With a little pressure on the MSH,I can hand start the pin,round end first. Round ends don't cut the hole.The pin,started,holds it all together.

Round end punch goes in the recess.It does not scoot off.The screwdriver handle is enough to push the pin in.
Claw hammer not required.

NO DAMAGE DONE.

[polyphemus]

I always see people on YouTube removing and inserting this pin with absolute ease, so I’m wondering if I’m doing something wrong.

Mr.John Travis has a video there that should show how to do it right.I am not familiar or want to be for that matter with integrated lock modified mainspring housings but removing the retainer pin is not hard or difficult on a standard M1911 actually it does come in and out without trouble provided you follow the right sequence which includes releasing hammer pressure and using a reasonable tool to do it.You may have defaced the frame a little with your efforts but it is unlikely that the pistol is ruined,learn from your mistakes and move on life is too short.

[RickB]

I noticed that the frame directly around the pin hole is denting and dinging up.

Is that from repeated application of the wrong tool?
Normally, nothing comes into contact with that part of the frame, as the hole is protected by the grip panels.

I do a detail strip about every 1000 rounds (which could be three or four months, or three or four years), and use a round-tipped punch that matches the depression in the pin to push out the pin; and I do push it out, not using a hammer or other application of force.

I've never seen any damage, or even cosmetic dings or marks about the pin hole.

[44 AMP]

First, let me congratulate you on having the guts to post what you did. You do realize that we are going to give you endless crap over it, right??

It will end, eventually, but thou hast sinned, and part of thy penance will be having to put up with crap from smug, snarky old geezers like me.

Has anyone ever said to you, "Son, you scare me!"??


Here's what you did right....

I’m wondering if I’m doing something wrong.

Asking for help when you don't know....

Now, the things you did wrong....

#1 using the wrong tool for the job...(a really WRONG tool)

#2 thinking that because you can do a thing, that you should do the thing, and #2.5 that U-Tube teaches you enough...

of course, you aren't alone in that regard...

Also, do you guys have any tips for removing and inserting the MSH pin?

Yes. Stop doing it. There is absolutely no need to fully disassemble a 1911 to maintain it properly.

By far the best advice for you, at this point.

So since you're telling me to stop doing it, does this imply that removing the pin can damage the firearm?

I think you found out that doing it WRONG does damage the firearm...

The pin is loaded by the main spring. To remove it, you need to remove the load first by slightly compressing the main spring.

Tangolima, right advice, wrong pin. We're talking about the mainspring housing retaining pin (the one at the bottom that holds the housing in the frame). Slightly compressing the main spring actually increases the load on the housing retaining pin detent.

HiBC covered it pretty well, JohnKSa gave very good advice as well.

The big point is that while you can detail strip your 1911A1, you should not do it without need. Ok, its new, you're learning, I get it. Once you learn how it all works, comes apart and goes together, that's enough. You don't need to detail strip the gun over and over, to maintain it.

One of the genius features of Browning's 1911 design is the fact that it can be detail stripped, virtually without tools, AND that it will usually survive un/under trained people doing that. NOTHING is "GI proof" but the 1911 design has survived better than a lot of military equipment did.

One can, if disassembled in the right order, use parts of the gun as all the needed tools to detail strip it. You shouldn't do that on a regular basis, but it can be done, as it was intended to be, an emergency field expedient.

Every wonder WHY there is a "cup" on one end of the MSH retaining pin? Its not a "style" thing. It's a functional thing, so that, (at dire need) you can use the firing pin as the tool to push out the pin. The cup prevents damage to the tip of the firing pin (and the retaining pin, as well). There are other "tricks" but I won't go into them, at this time..

I was Army trained on the 1911A1. Graduated second in my class from the Small Arms Repair school USAOC&S APG, MD (US Army Ordnance Center & School Aberdeen Proving Grounds MD) in 1975. I know the GI 1911A1 quite well. As a Direct Support & General Support levels Small Arms Repairman (MOS 45B20) I could do any and all repairs short of replacing the frame.

Use the RIGHT tools!!! DO NOT remove the Grip Screw Bushings from the frame!!!! (they are staked in place with a special tool) DO NOT remove the barrel link pin! (it should be staked in place). DO NOT remove the Plunger Tube, or the Ejector!!! NONE of these parts are meant to be removed, except to be replaced as repair for damage!!! Do not disassemble the Mainspring housing assembly, or the magazine catch assembly. There is NO NEED, and they are a pain in the butt to put back together.

USE THE RIGHT TOOLS!!!

There are a number of little "tricks" that make field stripping and even detail stripping a fairly simple task, and there are tricks that make reassembly a fairly simple and easy task. Until you learn them , don't just blindly charge ahead. We can help, just ask.

One thing that might help is for you to get a book or two. Owner's manual is good, the Army manuals can be useful, and there are lots and lots of books and "shop manuals" for the 1911 design, some go way past what you need. And there is TFL (and other forums) which are fantastic resources that didn't exist back when I was learning....

There's a lot here people can teach you...some of it will even be right!
Good Luck,, and did I mention, use the right tools??

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Tested Twice

So since you're telling me to stop doing it, does this imply that removing the pin can damage the firearm?

Only when you use the wrong tool for the job.

The MSH retainer pin has a small groove around the middle of its length. The base pin under the main spring has a tapered nose that engages the groove, so there's no way the pin will fall out of the gun by itself. Just clean up the hole as well as you can, and reassemble.

The hole diameter is 0.157". A 1/8" punch is 0.125". That's the right tool for the job. Note that one end of the pin has a small recess in it. If you use punches made for roll pins (which are hollow), the tip will have a small bump that engages the recess in the pin to keep the punch on-center.

[JohnKSa]

So since you're telling me to stop doing it, does this imply that removing the pin can damage the firearm?

It can--from your description of the frame around the pin, it does sound like the way you're doing it causes damage.

It doesn't have to cause damage, but even if it is done perfectly and no damage is caused, that still doesn't mean it should be done every time the gun needs to be cleaned. Like 44AMP says, just because a thing can be done doesn't mean it should be.

There's simply no need to detail strip a pistol for every cleaning.

These are not hard and fast rules, but here are some reasonable guidelines for when a gun should be field stripped.

1. It would make sense to detail strip a firearm which is subjected to extreme conditions (e.g dropped in water or mud or sand).

2. It would make sense to detail strip and thoroughly inspect a firearm any time regular wear parts (e.g. recoil springs) need to be replaced or a part actually breaks.

3. A carry gun that sees harsh conditions on a regular basis (e.g. sandy or wet conditions) might need to be detail stripped occasionally if it appears that normal cleaning procedures are not sufficient to properly maintain the gun.

4. It would make sense to detail strip and thoroughly inspect a firearm after an unusual incident suggests that damage could have occurred (e.g. dropped onto a hard surface from a significant height).

[rock185]

TestedTwice, Not much need, but you can remove and reinstall that pin to your heart's content without damaging anything. Just make sure the hammer is at rest to take the pressure off the mainspring and plunger. The best tool I have ever found to R & R the mainspring housing pin is a regular .45 ACP firing pin. It fits, and centers itself, in the concave end of the MSH pin. It never slips off and scratches or scrapes the frame, etc. I have kept a .45 ACP firing pin in my 1911 tools for many years just for this purpose.....

[Mike38]

I haven't taken the mainspring housing out of my 1911 since I built it, oh, around 15 years ago. No need really.

[HiBC]

I did not spend the $25 on this tool.It was given to me by someone who was getting out of 1911's

It does work well and has a place in my 1911 tool box. Hammer not required
It works well as a mockup slave pin when fitting parts,too.

https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...%7cMake_3=1911

This E-bay listing shows a GI takedown tool and a bushing wrench.
It would probably do.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/332703793591