The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: General

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 3, 2018, 05:15 PM   #1
Django11
Member
 
Join Date: May 23, 2017
Posts: 46
Hornady "Match" bthp uses?

One of my ARs really shoot the Hornady .223 75 grain match bthp ammo well. While on their website it doesn't say that it does well at anything other that target shooting. I haven't found much other info that really answers my questions. Would it be effective on deer sized animals? How about self defense? Any info would be appreciated
Django11 is offline  
Old July 3, 2018, 05:57 PM   #2
std7mag
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2013
Location: Central Taxylvania..
Posts: 3,609
Target bullets are good for killing targets.
__________________
When our own government declares itself as "tyrannical", where does that leave us??!!

"Januarary 6th insurrection".
Funny, I didn't see a single piece of rope...
std7mag is offline  
Old July 3, 2018, 06:39 PM   #3
Bartholomew Roberts
member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 8,462
Here is an exhaustive encyclopedia of all the Hornady 75gr variants and how they differ:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Ho...TAP/16-387471/

Short version: Most of them kill a lot more than paper well; but they are limited by being yaw dependent, so they tend to be less effective through intermediate barriers.
Bartholomew Roberts is offline  
Old July 3, 2018, 06:43 PM   #4
jmr40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 10,792
While they are marketed as target bullets they would probably work just fine for hunting. or personal defense. I've noted the same excellent accuracy. In fact the Hornady Steel match ammo only runs $25/50 rounds and uses the same bullet. I get the same accuracy for less money.

But until I see some test results, or conduct my own, I'll not hunt with them. What I have learned over the years is that almost all of the "match" bullets perform just as well on game as "hunting" bullets. In many cases better. The exception is FMJ. Most all of them with a plastic tip such as the Hornady ELD-Match bullets or the open tip design that Berger and Scenar use have proven to work very well.

Later this summer I plan to put together some type of test to catch some of them and see how well they expand. If they do as well as I think they will then I'll use them to hunt with.
__________________
"If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong"

Winston Churchill
jmr40 is offline  
Old July 3, 2018, 10:28 PM   #5
Mobuck
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2010
Posts: 6,846
"75 grain match bthp ammo "
I don't own any of this ammo and have no use for it. Definitely not deer hunting ammo.
Mobuck is offline  
Old July 4, 2018, 06:26 AM   #6
Picher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2004
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,694
If people would only get this: Match bullets punch paper well, but DON'T use them on animals!!! It doesn't matter whether the bullet strikes an animal within an inch of where you intended if...it can't control expansion well and kill humanely!!!

One lucky hit does not a make a hunting bullet out of a target bullet! Any bullet will kill in certain placements, but hunting bullets are designed to kill quickly at various angles and whether they strike bone, etc.
Picher is offline  
Old July 4, 2018, 06:58 AM   #7
rebs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 10, 2012
Posts: 3,881
I am of the school that target bullets are just that and hunting bullets are for hunting. A clean humane kill is most important.
rebs is offline  
Old July 4, 2018, 07:12 AM   #8
Nathan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2001
Posts: 6,285
Any facts of experience to post?

The issue with targetbullets is that they contain soft lead inside weak jackets with minimal bonding of jacket to lead. They fall apart when they expand.

To test this specific bullet, line up like 6 milk jugs of water and see what the stopped bullet looks like. Also, what does it weigh.

For example, Berger match bullets in heavy 30 cal are known to be good long range hunting bullets.
Nathan is offline  
Old July 4, 2018, 07:13 AM   #9
TXAZ
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 5, 2010
Location: McMurdo Sound Texas
Posts: 4,322
I shoot a lot of the Hornady 750 gr and 143 gr.
Really nice precision holes in paper at long range.
Also excellent on steel targets.

While any round is better than no round for self defense, I wouldn’t.
__________________

Cave illos in guns et backhoes
TXAZ is offline  
Old July 4, 2018, 07:14 AM   #10
Dufus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2014
Posts: 1,965
Django: listen to these guys. Bullet design and construction is everything when designed for hunting. Target bullets follow the same rules. Don't use target bullets for anything more than paper or varmints.
Dufus is offline  
Old July 4, 2018, 07:23 AM   #11
Mobuck
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2010
Posts: 6,846
"Any facts of experience to post?"
.308 Nosler 155 HPBT competition bullets loaded to around 2750+/-

Deer quartering to @ 150 yards hit inside shoulder looked like it encountered a chainsaw.
Deer broadside @ 150 yards hit broadside in ribcage not recovered no blood trail.
Bobcat broadside @250 yards hit through shoulders DRT but barely visible exit hole.
Coyotes(3) @ 350 yards hit somewhere unrecovered no blood trail.

The clue here is the extremely inconsistent bullet action. I believe the "chainsawed" deer was the result of a tumbling bullet while the other failures were the result of the bullet boring a hole. The bobcat was hit close to the spine and that's what dropped it on the spot. The other animals simply ran off to die at their convenience.

I tried 69 grain HPBT out of a 20" AR on baited coyotes @ 325 yards but failed to recover any of those hit so switched to the 308 w/o improving results.
Mobuck is offline  
Old July 4, 2018, 07:29 AM   #12
reynolds357
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2012
Posts: 6,161
Target bullets either under expand or over expand. With one exception, I don't hunt with target bullets. The one exception being 168 Sierra Match Kings in my 300 Win Mag retired sniper rifle used on Whitetails. They perform very similar to Berger Match Grade hunting.
reynolds357 is offline  
Old July 4, 2018, 08:27 AM   #13
Django11
Member
 
Join Date: May 23, 2017
Posts: 46
Sounds like you answered my question. This rifle isn't really intended to hunt deer or SD, but rather my main coyote gun. I just wasn't sure how that hallow point actually preformed. I will start the search for some good hunting ammo that will match the accuracy. Thanks
Django11 is offline  
Old July 4, 2018, 10:10 AM   #14
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA
Posts: 24,798
I disremember the brand names, but there are at least a couple of .223 bullets around 68 grains that are designed as appropriate for deer. Members have posted numerous positive comments.

Go to a bulllet-maker's website and browse for a chart of their bullets. They often show suggested uses.
Art Eatman is offline  
Old July 4, 2018, 10:50 AM   #15
Bartholomew Roberts
member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 8,462
The major difference between Hornady’s 75gr match load and Hornady’s 75gr police load (designed for 200lb mammals) is that the police load uses a cannelured bullet for reliability.

Hornady 75gr will destroy a coyote, or a goat.
Bartholomew Roberts is offline  
Old July 4, 2018, 10:56 AM   #16
Don Fischer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 2, 2017
Posts: 1,868
Most bullet's will kill no matter what the weight or construction. That doesn't mean they were designed to kill. Take Nosler. The partition has a cult following. What is the need for the bonded bullet? In fact what is the need for two different bonded bullet's? That cup and core was a good idea but I have no idea how well it really works. Has a place. I think they are about half the cost of the partition's and bonded bullet's.The only company I know of that has not got caught up in this bullet race is Speer! They don't make a monolithic bullet or a bonded bullet. But then I have used Speer Hot Core's and I found the core and jacket don't separate! But don't call them a bonded bullet, shoot, they don't cost enough.

OP say's Hornady doesn't tell you what the 75gr HPBT 223 bullet does other than target shoot. Has it occurred that the bullet is designed for just one thing Paper shooting! Lot of people want to take a bullet like that and proove that company's like Hornady don't have a clue what they are doing but, they still buy the bullet's. Pay careful attention now, the 75gr HPBT is designed to be a match bullet, one more time, a match bullet!
Don Fischer is offline  
Old July 4, 2018, 11:08 AM   #17
thallub
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2007
Location: South Western OK
Posts: 3,112
Quote:
I disremember the brand names, but there are at least a couple of .223 bullets around 68 grains that are designed as appropriate for deer.
Barnes makes the monolithic Triple Shock bullets in weights to 70 grains. i've killed numerous large hogs with the 53 and 62 grain TSX bullets; they work very well.

http://www.barnesbullets.com/files/2...mingtonWeb.pdf
thallub is offline  
Old July 4, 2018, 11:20 AM   #18
Nathan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2001
Posts: 6,285
Thanks Mobuck, that is a great accounting of actual experience.

Don, Speer is in there....Grand Slam! Both are fine bullets with a design for expansion.

I should include my account....Berger 190gr match from 300WSM at 3000fps. Hit an antelope at 220 yds in the spine. Dropped like a rock, huge hole where spine exploded. I didn't include as this tells me little about the bullets performance.
Nathan is offline  
Old July 4, 2018, 12:43 PM   #19
T. O'Heir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 12,453
"...effective on deer sized animals..." Absolutely not. Match bullets are not made to expand. They're for making neat round holes in paper. They do well for varmints where expansion and penetration aren't required though.
"...cannelured bullet for reliability..." A cannelure have nothing to do with reliability. They're for crimping and nothing else.
"....308 Nosler 155 HPBT competition..." Isn't a 75 grain .223. Apples and oranges comparison.
__________________
Spelling and grammar count!
T. O'Heir is offline  
Old July 4, 2018, 01:18 PM   #20
Mobuck
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 2, 2010
Posts: 6,846
The only instance in which I've had "match bullets" perform on meat is when using Hornady 53 grain flat base match bullets. I killed a pickup load(no joking) of coyotes at ranges up to 1/4 mile using this bullet pushed at max(and maybe a bit more) from a 22/250. I don't know if the bullets expanded, blew up, tumbled, or went nuclear but best guess is disintegrated on contact.
Mobuck is offline  
Old July 4, 2018, 03:31 PM   #21
Bartholomew Roberts
member
 
Join Date: June 12, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
Posts: 8,462
Hornady 75gr is absolutely effective on 150-200lb deer under 200yds; but it will spoil a lot of meat and you won’t be doing any Texas heart shots.

As for cannelure effecting reliability, when you feed bullets into a military semi-auto at near max OAL and high velocity, keeping the bullet from getting pushed back in the case will definitely enhance your end user experience.
Bartholomew Roberts is offline  
Old July 5, 2018, 02:02 AM   #22
Scorch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2006
Location: Washington state
Posts: 15,248
Quote:
While on their website it doesn't say that it does well at anything other that target shooting.
Well, yeah, that's what a match is, a target shooting competition! What did you think "match" means? Like a Blue Tip match?
__________________
Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs.
But what do I know?
Summit Arms Services
Scorch is offline  
Old July 5, 2018, 07:00 AM   #23
agtman
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2001
Location: midwest
Posts: 2,374
Quote:
"75 grain match bthp ammo "
I don't own any of this ammo and have no use for it. Definitely not deer hunting ammo.
It'll drop ground hogs and coyotes very well. So will my handloads using a 75gn OTM
agtman is offline  
Old July 6, 2018, 04:21 AM   #24
Picher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2004
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,694
If you handload, .224 bullets are cheap and there's no reason to use target or varmint bullets on deer. It's a marginal deer round to begin with, requiring expert shot placement, so get the best deer bullets/cartridges available, hunt where you can get clear shots, shoot at reasonable ranges (under 200 yards) and confine shots to the heart/lung area. Pass up angle shots.
Picher is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.12321 seconds with 10 queries