Difference between 8mm Mauser ammo

[Prothe2nd]

I shoot a lot of 8mm Mauser and I buy as much as I can. I understand 8mm Mauser, 7.92x57mm and 8x57mm are all the same cartridge. But I run into 8mm Mauser JS and 8x57mm JS. What does the JS mean, and how does it apply to the cartridge? Is it a longer casing, or a larger diameter? Would it even chamber in a 1944 k98 (which is my rifle). And would it be safe to shoot out of my rifle? I'm asking because I can't seem to find a source that answers my questions as to the differences. Anyone who could give me an answer or a link to an informative site would be appreciated.

[2damnold4this]

The J uses a .318" diameter bullet while the JS uses a .323" diameter bullet. Your 1944 K98 is designed to shoot the .323" JS bullet and should be safe with either so long as it is in proper working order.

[std7mag]

The JS is the later Mauser ammo, and barrel. It is actually 0.323". The earlier J ammo was i believe 0.318".

It would be rare indeed if you ran accross the J ammo.

[Seamus Mc]

The old J .318 ammo was the original 8mm Mauser cartridge and was called Patrone 88 and used in the 1888 Commission Rifle. In the 1903 the larger .323 round was adopted and nearly all commission and K 98 rifles were converted to the larger diameter round and a capital S was prominently marked on top of the receiver to designate the conversion. S stood for spritzer, or pointed, bullet as used in the new round. It is safe, but not very accurate, to fire old .318 rounds thru a .323 bore but not vice versa. I own an unusual unconverted .318 commission rifle built in 1890 by Steyr. It has very few markings and it is a bit of a mystery rifle since I am aware of no military that used the old round after the new one was adopted. I am able to reload with modern 8mm Mauser brass but must use the smaller diameter bullet. In addition, some commercial rifles continued to be built to chamber the original bullet and I believe this caliber was still produced in Europe up until not too long ago and possibly still could be being produced.

[jimbob86]

S stood for "spitzgeschoss", or pointed bullet

FIFY.

"spritzer" is some kinda foo-foo drink .... white wine and soda water or some such .... I don't understand- wine is pretty thin as it is- not gonna try.....

[Jim Watson]

Spell check substitutes "spritzer" for "spitzer ".

[Prothe2nd]

Ok, so what I'm getting is 8mm Mauser and all the veriants that includes JS are the same round. Can anyone tell me what JS actually stands for?

[jimbob86]

"J" was actually a gothic "I" and it stood for "Infanterie"

"JS" would be "Infanterie Spitzgeschoss", or "Infantry Pointed bullet"

[jimbob86]

Spell check substitutes "spritzer" for "spitzer ".

I despise spellwreck.

[Hawg]

It was originally IS but got confused along the way. I stands for "Infanterie", or Infantry, and S stands for "Spitz Geschoss", or “Pointed-tip bullet”).

Outdrawn again lol

[jimbob86]

[jimbob86]

With 14+K postcount, it ain't for lack of practice, Hawg!

[GarandTd]

Watch out for 8x57JRS. That is a rimmed cartridge. It will not chamber in your Mauser.

[Hawg]

With 14+K postcount, it ain't for lack of practice, Hawg!

Just gettin old and slow.

[jimbob86]

Just gettin old and slow.

I'll be 50 in 6 weeks .... feelin' it too ....cold makes it so much worse .... It's 10 below ....

[Scorch]

Watch out for 8x57JRS.

Right! As if he's going to run across a cartridge that has to be special ordered.

[GarandTd]

Right! As if he's going to run across a cartridge that has to be special ordered.

I didn't know the jrs cartridge existed until I asked for a box of 8mm Mauser at my local lgs last year and they handed me a box of 8x57 jrs....over the counter, not special order. I didn't notice until I opened the box at home. The 1st clue was a round nose bullet as opposed to the spitzer. 2nd clue was the rim. 3rd and final clue was that it wouldn't chamber. I returned to the LGS and they were kind enough to exchange the ammo for me.

So........like I said, watch out for the 8x57 jrs (rimmed) cartridges.

[emcon5]

I understand 8mm Mauser, 7.92x57mm and 8x57mm are all the same cartridge

They are, but then again they aren't.

When the 8X57 was introduced, it had a 0.318 bore, and was later changed to .323, and because of this, most of the ammo you can get in the US is crap.

US manufacturers were afraid some dimwit would try and shoot a full power .323 through their .318 bore Gewehr 88 and blow up the gun, and hurt themselves. Europeans figured if you don't know what ammo your gun can safely shoot, you are a moron and deserve whatever happens to you.

Regardless, there are two specifications for what we call 8mm Mauser, the US SAMMI spec "8MM Mauser", which has a max pressure of 35K psi, and the CIP "8x57 IS" which has a max pressure of ~56K psi. To further muddy the waters, "8x57 IS" is often written as "8x57 JS, evidently because the Germans used a Gothic script, and the I looked like a J.

Generally, what you can get in the US is "8MM Mauser", and it the anemic SAMMI spec.

Privi Partisan actually makes both, if you look at their online catalog, they have entries for both "8MM Mauser" and "8x57 IS", with the latter having a higher velocity for the same bullet. For example, the "8x57" IS 198 gr FMJ is 2425 FPS, (essentially the 1934+ military load), but the "8MM Mauser" 198 gr FMJ is only 2180 FPS. Naturally, they only sell the wimpy stuff in the US.

Wolf Gold is made by Privi and loaded to 8x57 IS specs, 196 gr SP @ 2461 fps, but I haven't seen it around in a while.

Remington's and Winchester's only offerings is 170 gr @ 2360fps. Federal's only option is even wimpier 170gr @ 2250 FPS.

These are barely over the velocity as the starting load in my Sierra and Hornady manuals for similar weight bullets.

Hornady and Nosler seem to be the only US folks making "real" 8x57 ammo, Hornady has two options, a 195 hunting bullet and a 196 gr match, both @ 2500 FPS, which is pretty close to the original military load.

Nosler has a 200gr AccuBond or Partition at 2475 fps, and a 180gr Ballistic tip at 2600 FPS, but they are really proud of them, at about $2.50 per round.

Seller & Belot and Norma both make a few 196 loads at ~2600 FPS, but availability is spotty, and while the price on the S&B is decent, the Norma stuff is up in the $2.50/round neighborhood.

[FrankenMauser]

To further muddy the waters, "8x57 IS" is often written as "8x57 JS, evidently because the Germans used a Gothic script, and the I looked like a J.

Had it not been for Gian Giorgio Trissino, the distinction wouldn't matter. Even then... adoption of his suggestion regarding J and I wasn't broadly accepted across the European continent until the mid-1800s (and even later in the states), and the usage had to trickle down from scholars to common literate folk.

For those lost... Between 1524 and 1529, Gian argued for a distinction in the alphabet between the spoken forms of the letter I. Based on his arguments, we got the letter J. (And "Jesus" intead of "Iesus".) ...Also the letter V - formerly combined with U - but that's another subject...

I didn't know the jrs cartridge existed until I asked for a box of 8mm Mauser at my local lgs last year and they handed me a box of 8x57 jrs....over the counter, not special order. I didn't notice until I opened the box at home. The 1st clue was a round nose bullet as opposed to the spitzer. 2nd clue was the rim. 3rd and final clue was that it wouldn't chamber. I returned to the LGS and they were kind enough to exchange the ammo for me.

So........like I said, watch out for the 8x57 jrs (rimmed) cartridges.

I know of at least two local stores that stock it, as well. It's not recent production ammo, and they're not big stores. They just like to have a little bit of everything, even if it takes 10 years to go through a case of ammo.

[zipspyder]

I have an 8mm Yugo and it can get a little confusing unless you know what to look for. Bottom line most 8mm ammo of today is wimpy with only a couple choices for the normal higher power loads.

[RC20]

US manufacturers were afraid some dimwit would try and shoot a full power .323 through their .318 bore Gewehr 88 and blow up the gun, and hurt themselves. Europeans figured if you don't know what ammo your gun can safely shoot, you are a moron and deserve whatever happens to you.

Kind of makes you wonder who are the wimpy socialists? (grin)

[Hawg]

I'll be 50 in 6 weeks

Turned 61 a week ago.

[jimbob86]

To further muddy the waters, all sorts of Mausers went to Turkey, where they were bodged and reworked ..... I have a Gew.88/05 (I know it's not a mauser , but the Turks got hold of at least part of it at one time) made in Erfurt in 1892, with Turk markings on the bolt and some other parts ..... it has a .323. bore and is marked S, and with a gothic I ..... at some point in it's existence, the barrel was shortened to 18 1/2" the majority of the barrel shroud disappeared, a rear sight base was brazed onto the barrel, the bolt got swapped with a different one ..... I had some sights put on it ..... fun to shoot downloaded handloads through ........

[Pathfinder45]

The so called, "wimpy", American loads are ballistically similar to the 32 Winchester Special. And, as we all know, that's little better than a spear anymore, since the game animals have built up their immune systems to resist such wimpy loads over the last century.

[joeb]

I love shooting the round. It kills paper easily, but I'm not gonna stand in front of it just in case my immunity hasn't become strong enough to resist it's puny abilities.