Krag_jorgenson....and Savage double mdl5100?

fubsy · November 29, 2000, 08:13 PM

Ive two questions concerning to firearms that have just stumped me........

Recently, a Krag_rifle, exactly like the 30-40 krag that our military issued ....has turned up and was supposed to have been made in Denmark?,....this rifle has no military marking's....but does have the number 1900 and what appears to be a crest.......the rifle is supposed to have been issued in a different caliber about 25 cal., and has been converted to 257roberts.......we are still check the caliber to be sure of the exact conversion.......Now that 257 is a high pressure cartridge and I have been under the impression that the 30-40 was improved by the 1903 primarily because of its cartridge limitations .......if this rifle proves to have been converted to 257 roberts, do you think the action could handle that caliber?.....

Also we have been looking for the value and any other information on a side by side by Savage that has only the 5100 on the right sideplate........any information would be a help..tks fubsy.

Harley Nolden · November 30, 2000, 06:09 AM

Fubsy:

Here is what I have on the Danish Krag:

KRAG-JORGENSEN
Designer: Ole Krag
Model: 1889 Infantry Rifle:
Country of Origin: Norway
Mfg: Gevaerfabriken Kjobenhavn &
Kobenhavns Tojhus, Copenhagen
1890-1915
Haerens Tajhus Copenhagen
1915-1921
Quantity: 118,000
Cal: 8X58mm rimmed

The Krag bolt action rifle has a distinctive case magazine in the receiver beneath the bolt feeding cartridges laterally. The Danish loading gate hinges forward; US and Norwegian patterns
hinge down.. The comparatively weak one lug action, caused the rapid replacement of the US Krag Jorgensen by the .30 Springfield magazine rifle, which was a modified Mauser. Most of the Danish and Norwegian guns however lasted into the 1950's.

Denmark
1887: Aware that their standard Remington rolling block infantry rifles were obsolete, the Danes looked for an alternative. Five hundred Lee-type forsogsrepeterbevar M/a repeating trials
rifle, were issued in April but, though reports indicated great superiority over the Remingtons, the rifle commission was not convinced.

1889: Accepted in June the original rifle was sighed for the 8mm m/89 cartridge, with 250mtr standing block and leaf graduated to 1,800mtr. There were no safety features other than the half
cock notch.

1890: The first series made guns were accepted on 19 Jan, with bulk deliveries starting in the summer.

1908: On 19 Sept. Denmark adopted the pointed bullet in 08mm with a muzzle velocity of 750m/sec and the sights were modified to give a max. range of 2,100mtr.

HJN

fal308 · November 30, 2000, 09:40 AM

Possibly the 5100 is a Stevens 5100. In 1920 Stevens was bought by Savage Arms. The Stevens 5100 was in various gauges, boxlock, double triggers, steel barrel, checkered wood, pistolgrip and splinter foreend.
Apparantly it was a utility grade shotgun.

fubsy · November 30, 2000, 11:20 AM

Harley,

thankyou very much....for the information.....

fal308,
Your right its a stevens.....I had savage on my mind I earlier had been looking at a used mdl 5 and was considering getting it for a varmit rifle for the casa.......my mistake and thank you for catching it...later...fubsy.

**Mike Irwin** · November 30, 2000, 02:00 PM

Fubsy,

I'm pretty certain that there was also a 6.5mm version of the Krag rifle. This may be what you have.

Let me get home and check my Cartridges of the World.

Harley Nolden · November 30, 2000, 04:22 PM

My records indicate that From 1894 forward, Norway manufactured the Krag in in caliber 6.5X55mm.

HJN

James K · November 30, 2000, 05:42 PM

If the rifle is a Norwegian Krag, it is a double locking lug design, making full locking use of the right lug, which is a non-bearing safety lug on the U.S. Krag. The original chambering was, as Harley says, 6.5 x 55 which is a pretty hot round. The .257 Roberts is a necked down 7mm, and reasonable loads in the .257 should be OK.

Jim

fubsy · November 30, 2000, 06:55 PM

Thank you Gentleman......I really do appreciate it........its a neat little rifle, but it isnt mine, it belongs to a friend and Im just helping with the research,,,,,actually just passing along your information....once again...thankyou..fubsy.

**Mike Irwin** · December 1, 2000, 01:43 AM

There's also another possibility, albeit a slim one, for the Krag.

There was a Norwegian commercial cartridge for hunting and sporting purposes that was made by necking the 8mm Norwegian Krag round to 6.5mm.

While unlikely, it is possible that your friend's Krag rifle is chambered for this round.

A chamber cast would be a wise investment before trying to fire it with 6.5x55 Swedish ammo.

fubsy · December 1, 2000, 04:18 AM

thank you .......for that info...I do appreciate it...fubsy.

November 30, 2000, 06:09 AM	#2
Harley Nolden Staff In Memoriam Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Brunswick,GA USA Posts: 1,884	Krag: Fubsy: Here is what I have on the Danish Krag: KRAG-JORGENSEN Designer: Ole Krag Model: 1889 Infantry Rifle: Country of Origin: Norway Mfg: Gevaerfabriken Kjobenhavn & Kobenhavns Tojhus, Copenhagen 1890-1915 Haerens Tajhus Copenhagen 1915-1921 Quantity: 118,000 Cal: 8X58mm rimmed The Krag bolt action rifle has a distinctive case magazine in the receiver beneath the bolt feeding cartridges laterally. The Danish loading gate hinges forward; US and Norwegian patterns hinge down.. The comparatively weak one lug action, caused the rapid replacement of the US Krag Jorgensen by the .30 Springfield magazine rifle, which was a modified Mauser. Most of the Danish and Norwegian guns however lasted into the 1950's. Denmark 1887: Aware that their standard Remington rolling block infantry rifles were obsolete, the Danes looked for an alternative. Five hundred Lee-type forsogsrepeterbevar M/a repeating trials rifle, were issued in April but, though reports indicated great superiority over the Remingtons, the rifle commission was not convinced. 1889: Accepted in June the original rifle was sighed for the 8mm m/89 cartridge, with 250mtr standing block and leaf graduated to 1,800mtr. There were no safety features other than the half cock notch. 1890: The first series made guns were accepted on 19 Jan, with bulk deliveries starting in the summer. 1908: On 19 Sept. Denmark adopted the pointed bullet in 08mm with a muzzle velocity of 750m/sec and the sights were modified to give a max. range of 2,100mtr. HJN

November 30, 2000, 04:22 PM	#6
Harley Nolden Staff In Memoriam Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Brunswick,GA USA Posts: 1,884	6.5mm My records indicate that From 1894 forward, Norway manufactured the Krag in in caliber 6.5X55mm. HJN

November 29, 2000, 08:13 PM	#1
fubsy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 1999 Posts: 1,363	Ive two questions concerning to firearms that have just stumped me........ Recently, a Krag_rifle, exactly like the 30-40 krag that our military issued ....has turned up and was supposed to have been made in Denmark?,....this rifle has no military marking's....but does have the number 1900 and what appears to be a crest.......the rifle is supposed to have been issued in a different caliber about 25 cal., and has been converted to 257roberts.......we are still check the caliber to be sure of the exact conversion.......Now that 257 is a high pressure cartridge and I have been under the impression that the 30-40 was improved by the 1903 primarily because of its cartridge limitations .......if this rifle proves to have been converted to 257 roberts, do you think the action could handle that caliber?..... Also we have been looking for the value and any other information on a side by side by Savage that has only the 5100 on the right sideplate........any information would be a help..tks fubsy.

November 30, 2000, 09:40 AM	#3
fal308 Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,992	Possibly the 5100 is a Stevens 5100. In 1920 Stevens was bought by Savage Arms. The Stevens 5100 was in various gauges, boxlock, double triggers, steel barrel, checkered wood, pistolgrip and splinter foreend. Apparantly it was a utility grade shotgun.

November 30, 2000, 11:20 AM	#4
fubsy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 1999 Posts: 1,363	Harley, thankyou very much....for the information..... fal308, Your right its a stevens.....I had savage on my mind I earlier had been looking at a used mdl 5 and was considering getting it for a varmit rifle for the casa.......my mistake and thank you for catching it...later...fubsy.

November 30, 2000, 02:00 PM	#5
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Fubsy, I'm pretty certain that there was also a 6.5mm version of the Krag rifle. This may be what you have. Let me get home and check my Cartridges of the World.

November 30, 2000, 05:42 PM	#7
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	If the rifle is a Norwegian Krag, it is a double locking lug design, making full locking use of the right lug, which is a non-bearing safety lug on the U.S. Krag. The original chambering was, as Harley says, 6.5 x 55 which is a pretty hot round. The .257 Roberts is a necked down 7mm, and reasonable loads in the .257 should be OK. Jim

November 30, 2000, 06:55 PM	#8
fubsy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 1999 Posts: 1,363	Thank you Gentleman......I really do appreciate it........its a neat little rifle, but it isnt mine, it belongs to a friend and Im just helping with the research,,,,,actually just passing along your information....once again...thankyou..fubsy.

December 1, 2000, 01:43 AM	#9
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	There's also another possibility, albeit a slim one, for the Krag. There was a Norwegian commercial cartridge for hunting and sporting purposes that was made by necking the 8mm Norwegian Krag round to 6.5mm. While unlikely, it is possible that your friend's Krag rifle is chambered for this round. A chamber cast would be a wise investment before trying to fire it with 6.5x55 Swedish ammo.

December 1, 2000, 04:18 AM	#10
fubsy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 1999 Posts: 1,363	thank you .......for that info...I do appreciate it...fubsy.