*URGENT* Please Help With Powder Problem - Page 2

KySilverado · March 17, 2010, 11:29 AM

That isn't right. May not be on Accurates recall list but I venture it soon will be.

uncyboo · March 17, 2010, 11:33 AM

Quote:

That is weird. Maybe someone stole the powder and filled it back up with whatever before returning it for his cash back. Then you bought it.

That's why most places won't take powder, primers, or bullets back for exchange or refund.

**Mike Irwin** · March 17, 2010, 11:49 AM

"That's why most places won't take powder, primers, or bullets back for exchange or refund."

Bingo.

Years go I clutched and bought the wrong IMR powder for what I wanted to reload. I realized it within the hour and took it back to the shop, where I had been buying literally for years.

Even though they knew me, they were still very hesitant to take the powder back. Gib would only take it back after I swore on a stack of bibles that I had not opened the can.

I exchanged it for a can of the right powder, and we were fine, but the only reason he let me exchange it was because both my Father and I had been buying there for years.

uncyboo · March 17, 2010, 11:58 AM

Quote:

"That's why most places won't take powder, primers, or bullets back for exchange or refund."

Bingo.

Years go I clutched and bought the wrong IMR powder for what I wanted to reload. I realized it within the hour and took it back to the shop, where I had been buying literally for years.

Even though they knew me, they were still very hesitant to take the powder back. Gib would only take it back after I swore on a stack of bibles that I had not opened the can.

I exchanged it for a can of the right powder, and we were fine, but the only reason he let me exchange it was because both my Father and I had been buying there for years.

I am in no way a "conspiracy theorist" or paranoid schitzo, but it certainly wouldn't stop some warped idiot from mixing cannisters in the store. A lot of places I buy powder have it behind the counter, and the Post Falls Cabela's has empty cans out for display, but there are a couple of places where the powder is on the shelf and accessable to customers.

riverwalker76 · March 17, 2010, 01:39 PM

I took it back to the dealer today so that he could return it to Western Powder. I walked in and handed him the powder and told him who it goes to. He then asked me ... "Why did you say anything?"

I looked at him with a surprised look, and he said that he had to pull his entire line of Accurate 2230, and he didn't know why I didn't just keep my mouth shut. I told him that I wasn't even going to dignify that comment with an answer and I walked out.

Can you believe that? He's mad at me for saying something to Accurate. Can you imagine the consequences of NOT saying something? This dealer is clearly just worried about his bottom dollar and could care less about the safety of his customers.

Badgerloader · March 17, 2010, 01:42 PM

good catch and an excellent safety reminder

**Unclenick** · March 17, 2010, 02:12 PM

That dealer is an ignoramus. In his shoes, I sure would have pulled a couple off the shelf and opened them and looked inside. If your's was the only one that looked that way, this was store sabotage or store owner repackaging that went awry.

We once had an Ohio Gun Collectors Association gun show back in the late 80's in which a gun discharged (.22 rim fire into the ceiling, fortunately). The show organizers immediately got on the PA and had everyone with guns out on their tables open and check them for live rounds. Several .22 rim fires were found with live rounds in them. Teenagers or anti-gun saboteurs; we never learned? I suspect the latter. It was the beginning of Nylon ties so nobody could check trigger feel again after that.

Mike Irwin,

Accurate sells a couple of extruded flake shotgun powders that used to be the Scot brand before the Scot stick powder plant burned down. They are Solo 1000 and Solo 1250. Made somewhere on the Continent; Belgium maybe, but I've forgotten? (And I don't know what became of Royal Scot powder?) Their sphericals are all made in Israel, I believe? In any event, you don't want your fast shotgun flakes mixed in with your 2230, and that photo clearly showed powders made by two different processes, and not just the flattened form spheres you sometimes get in spherical propellants. Stratification would be a real issue. The only safeguard would be that extruded flakes are usually too bulky to fit in the case if weighed to the 2230 charge level. Case overflow would likely be your first clue, if the Solo powders are what those were? If it was sabotage or careless repackaging, then they could be anyone's flakes. All the 2230 I've ever used looked like the first photo.

**Mike Irwin** · March 17, 2010, 02:32 PM

Nick,

Yep, already figured that out. I'd forgotten that they picked up the Scot line of powders back in the 1990s.

Riverwalker,

Find a new shop. I wouldn't spend any more money in that place.

riverwalker76 · March 17, 2010, 05:15 PM

I've got a couple of buddies together, and we are going to start ordering bulk from a place I know of. With 40# of powder and 4 boxes of primers we can beat the heck out of tax ... even with the hazmat fee!

steve4102 · March 17, 2010, 05:19 PM

Somethin Ain't right with this dealer! He's ****** off cuz you called Accurate about a potentially deadly situation. Nope, doesn't make sense, I think he has more to do with this bad jug of powder that he is letting on. My guess is he knows exactly what went down with this powder. Something or someone in his shop. I would call Accurate back and let them know what this idiot had to say. Odds are your original jug of powder will never make it back to Accurate.

riverwalker76 · March 17, 2010, 06:34 PM

Oh, Accurate knows about my dealings with him. I documented everything with them. I even tamper proofed the can before I took it back, and only the rep and I know how to tell if it's been tampered with.

For the trouble that I had to go through with this guy ... the rep really sweetened the deal. He informed me this afternoon that because of all of the trouble I've gone through in getting this back to him he is going to be sending me a 'care package'. Don't know what that means, but we'll see when it gets here.

SQUAREKNOT · March 17, 2010, 08:39 PM

I got a "care package" for WAY LESS than what you did that turned out to be triple the bad powder. I hope you do better-you should! Hope you had
a 20# keg

jimkim · March 17, 2010, 10:28 PM

A lot number would have been nice. I guess Accurate will eventually let us know something. I hope no one looses an eye, or worse.

riverwalker76 · March 23, 2010, 06:53 PM

Update:

I got my care package from Accurate today!

It consisted of 8 lbs. of 2230, and a box with every item they carry under their Montana Xtreme name. I'm anxious to try some of these cleaning supplies. I've heard they are Premium compared to the CLP I've been using.

So, in my opinion, Western Powder has done a good job of reimbursing me for my pound of bad powder.

The gentleman I spoke to last week said he is going to keep me posted on the bad powder situation when he gets it back.

Sevens · March 23, 2010, 07:47 PM

Niiiiiice!

Tex S · March 24, 2010, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Update:

I got my care package from Accurate today!

It consisted of 8 lbs. of 2230, and a box with every item they carry under their Montana Xtreme name. I'm anxious to try some of these cleaning supplies. I've heard they are Premium compared to the CLP I've been using.

So, in my opinion, Western Powder has done a good job of reimbursing me for my pound of bad powder.

The gentleman I spoke to last week said he is going to keep me posted on the bad powder situation when he gets it back.

That kinda makes me wish I would've gotten a pound of bad powder! Guess those guys have some good customer service.

grubbylabs · March 24, 2010, 12:20 AM

Nice customer service. I too would be looking for a new place to buy from.

fhwiggins · March 24, 2010, 08:43 AM

The flakes look like the 800sx I load in my 380 auto.

F. Guffey · March 24, 2010, 10:40 AM

Bruce Hodgdon came to our house in the mid 60s, long story, from that day on his advise was to never purchase a can of his powder unless it was sealed, before that powder was available in a paper bag and unsealed containers, he had what he thought was a problem, one very serious, the good part the two incidents were not related.

F. Guffey

mrawesome22 · March 24, 2010, 10:57 AM

A co-worker told me he was going to give me some red dot he found in his Grandfather's basement. He brought it in and it was in a brown paper bag with "Red Dot" barely legible on it. I said "Thanks, but no thanks."

javven · March 24, 2010, 09:34 PM

Awesome

I'm sorry you had a problem. However... I'm glad it was you. Can you imagine someone loading for their first time....

Either way. Stuff happens. It sounds like the MFG took good care of you.

riverwalker76 · March 24, 2010, 09:47 PM

YEah, Accurate / Western Powder took really good care of me. I'm looking into buying more of their powder in the future. The fact that it's the most affordable on the market today helps a lot as well.

riverwalker76 · March 31, 2010, 04:48 PM

UPDATE

I just spoke to the rep who received the faulty powder back, and they are doing analysis on it. He did say that they got it separated out, and it's not a powder that they carry!

He said that it looks as though someone tampered with the bottle somewhere in transit or at the place where I bought it to begin with.

At any rate they are waiting on the lab results to find out exactly who made the powder that was mixed in. He did say that they have isolated it to this bottle alone, and it was not present anywhere else.

This is scary if you think about it.

Scrapperz · March 31, 2010, 04:52 PM

It sure is scary. I have always wondered about such situations. Good thing you observed the mixed powder right away.

Sevens · March 31, 2010, 05:24 PM

I'm trying to approach this from a reasonable standpoint...

I'm thinking that someone must have had the bottle and accidentally mixed something in... then somehow, returned the bottle.

Because it seems to me that if someone was trying to do something obnoxious, dangerous or outright lethal -- he'd simply switch the entire contents out from a slow burning rifle powder to a very fast pistol powder.

I've seen a demo of Bullseye put in to a .300 Win Mag cartridge and fired in a T/C Encore... it was pure shrapnel and sent in many directions.

March 17, 2010, 11:49 AM	#28
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	"That's why most places won't take powder, primers, or bullets back for exchange or refund." Bingo. Years go I clutched and bought the wrong IMR powder for what I wanted to reload. I realized it within the hour and took it back to the shop, where I had been buying literally for years. Even though they knew me, they were still very hesitant to take the powder back. Gib would only take it back after I swore on a stack of bibles that I had not opened the can. I exchanged it for a can of the right powder, and we were fine, but the only reason he let me exchange it was because both my Father and I had been buying there for years. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

March 17, 2010, 02:12 PM	#32
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	That dealer is an ignoramus. In his shoes, I sure would have pulled a couple off the shelf and opened them and looked inside. If your's was the only one that looked that way, this was store sabotage or store owner repackaging that went awry. We once had an Ohio Gun Collectors Association gun show back in the late 80's in which a gun discharged (.22 rim fire into the ceiling, fortunately). The show organizers immediately got on the PA and had everyone with guns out on their tables open and check them for live rounds. Several .22 rim fires were found with live rounds in them. Teenagers or anti-gun saboteurs; we never learned? I suspect the latter. It was the beginning of Nylon ties so nobody could check trigger feel again after that. Mike Irwin, Accurate sells a couple of extruded flake shotgun powders that used to be the Scot brand before the Scot stick powder plant burned down. They are Solo 1000 and Solo 1250. Made somewhere on the Continent; Belgium maybe, but I've forgotten? (And I don't know what became of Royal Scot powder?) Their sphericals are all made in Israel, I believe? In any event, you don't want your fast shotgun flakes mixed in with your 2230, and that photo clearly showed powders made by two different processes, and not just the flattened form spheres you sometimes get in spherical propellants. Stratification would be a real issue. The only safeguard would be that extruded flakes are usually too bulky to fit in the case if weighed to the 2230 charge level. Case overflow would likely be your first clue, if the Solo powders are what those were? If it was sabotage or careless repackaging, then they could be anyone's flakes. All the 2230 I've ever used looked like the first photo. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle Last edited by Unclenick; March 17, 2010 at 02:20 PM.

March 17, 2010, 02:32 PM	#33
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	Nick, Yep, already figured that out. I'd forgotten that they picked up the Scot line of powders back in the 1990s. Riverwalker, Find a new shop. I wouldn't spend any more money in that place. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

March 17, 2010, 10:28 PM	#38
jimkim Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2008 Location: middle GA Posts: 326	A lot number would have been nice. I guess Accurate will eventually let us know something. I hope no one looses an eye, or worse. __________________ Jan. 4, 2007 gasoline $2.10 gal....HMMM?

March 23, 2010, 07:47 PM	#40
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Niiiiiice! __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

March 17, 2010, 11:29 AM	#26
KySilverado Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2010 Posts: 147	That isn't right. May not be on Accurates recall list but I venture it soon will be.

March 17, 2010, 01:39 PM	#30
riverwalker76 Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 993	I took it back to the dealer today so that he could return it to Western Powder. I walked in and handed him the powder and told him who it goes to. He then asked me ... "Why did you say anything?" I looked at him with a surprised look, and he said that he had to pull his entire line of Accurate 2230, and he didn't know why I didn't just keep my mouth shut. I told him that I wasn't even going to dignify that comment with an answer and I walked out. Can you believe that? He's mad at me for saying something to Accurate. Can you imagine the consequences of NOT saying something? This dealer is clearly just worried about his bottom dollar and could care less about the safety of his customers.

March 17, 2010, 01:42 PM	#31
Badgerloader Junior Member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Posts: 5	good catch and an excellent safety reminder

March 17, 2010, 05:15 PM	#34
riverwalker76 Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 993	I've got a couple of buddies together, and we are going to start ordering bulk from a place I know of. With 40# of powder and 4 boxes of primers we can beat the heck out of tax ... even with the hazmat fee!

March 17, 2010, 05:19 PM	#35
steve4102 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,952	Somethin Ain't right with this dealer! He's ****** off cuz you called Accurate about a potentially deadly situation. Nope, doesn't make sense, I think he has more to do with this bad jug of powder that he is letting on. My guess is he knows exactly what went down with this powder. Something or someone in his shop. I would call Accurate back and let them know what this idiot had to say. Odds are your original jug of powder will never make it back to Accurate.

March 17, 2010, 06:34 PM	#36
riverwalker76 Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 993	Oh, Accurate knows about my dealings with him. I documented everything with them. I even tamper proofed the can before I took it back, and only the rep and I know how to tell if it's been tampered with. For the trouble that I had to go through with this guy ... the rep really sweetened the deal. He informed me this afternoon that because of all of the trouble I've gone through in getting this back to him he is going to be sending me a 'care package'. Don't know what that means, but we'll see when it gets here.

March 17, 2010, 08:39 PM	#37
SQUAREKNOT Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2008 Posts: 263	I got a "care package" for WAY LESS than what you did that turned out to be triple the bad powder. I hope you do better-you should! Hope you had a 20# keg

March 23, 2010, 06:53 PM	#39
riverwalker76 Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 993	Update: I got my care package from Accurate today! It consisted of 8 lbs. of 2230, and a box with every item they carry under their Montana Xtreme name. I'm anxious to try some of these cleaning supplies. I've heard they are Premium compared to the CLP I've been using. So, in my opinion, Western Powder has done a good job of reimbursing me for my pound of bad powder. The gentleman I spoke to last week said he is going to keep me posted on the bad powder situation when he gets it back.

March 24, 2010, 12:20 AM	#42
grubbylabs Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2009 Location: Hansen Idaho Posts: 1,465	Nice customer service. I too would be looking for a new place to buy from. __________________ * (Swinging club) Whack! whack! whack! * Nope, the old nag's still dead . (Capt Charlie)

March 24, 2010, 08:43 AM	#43
fhwiggins Member Join Date: July 14, 2009 Posts: 36	The flakes look like the 800sx I load in my 380 auto.

March 24, 2010, 10:40 AM	#44
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	Bruce Hodgdon came to our house in the mid 60s, long story, from that day on his advise was to never purchase a can of his powder unless it was sealed, before that powder was available in a paper bag and unsealed containers, he had what he thought was a problem, one very serious, the good part the two incidents were not related. F. Guffey

March 24, 2010, 10:57 AM	#45
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	A co-worker told me he was going to give me some red dot he found in his Grandfather's basement. He brought it in and it was in a brown paper bag with "Red Dot" barely legible on it. I said "Thanks, but no thanks."

March 24, 2010, 09:34 PM	#46
javven Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2009 Posts: 195	Awesome I'm sorry you had a problem. However... I'm glad it was you. Can you imagine someone loading for their first time.... Either way. Stuff happens. It sounds like the MFG took good care of you.

March 24, 2010, 09:47 PM	#47
riverwalker76 Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 993	YEah, Accurate / Western Powder took really good care of me. I'm looking into buying more of their powder in the future. The fact that it's the most affordable on the market today helps a lot as well.

March 31, 2010, 04:48 PM	#48
riverwalker76 Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 993	UPDATE I just spoke to the rep who received the faulty powder back, and they are doing analysis on it. He did say that they got it separated out, and it's not a powder that they carry! He said that it looks as though someone tampered with the bottle somewhere in transit or at the place where I bought it to begin with. At any rate they are waiting on the lab results to find out exactly who made the powder that was mixed in. He did say that they have isolated it to this bottle alone, and it was not present anywhere else. This is scary if you think about it.

March 31, 2010, 05:24 PM	#50
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	I'm trying to approach this from a reasonable standpoint... I'm thinking that someone must have had the bottle and accidentally mixed something in... then somehow, returned the bottle. Because it seems to me that if someone was trying to do something obnoxious, dangerous or outright lethal -- he'd simply switch the entire contents out from a slow burning rifle powder to a very fast pistol powder. I've seen a demo of Bullseye put in to a .300 Win Mag cartridge and fired in a T/C Encore... it was pure shrapnel and sent in many directions. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.