Tear gas in the house

[nbk2000]

I've seen quite a bit of mention of use of OC as an adjunct to home defense.

Questions that come to my mind about the use of OC, CS, or other irritant aerosols inside of the home.

With certain formulations of the synthetic irritants like CS, it can leave a persistant residual effect in the carpet, furniture, etc that can take days or weeks to remove by airing out.

OC supposedly doesn't have this flaw.

However, there could be unintended consequences to use.

For instance, in my house, the air intake for the central air pulls air from the main hallway leading to the bedrooms. During winter, the heater kicks in whenever it's cold enough, pulling air from that intake in the center of the house, to warm it and disperse it to the rest of the house, before sucking it back through the rooms to be recycled.

Now, if for instance, I was to hear an intruder in the hallway and cracked open the door to blast a cloud of gas from my "assualt" sprayer, there's the very real possibility (Murphys Law) that the heater would choose that exact moment to kick in, circulating the gas through the entire house, gassing me as well as the intruder.

Given my emphysema, exposure could trigger a fatal airway seizure attack. Not a good outcome in my opinion.

So, how to avoid such problems?

Obviously the first step would be a gas mask. This is simple enough for me to do (if I had one), but doing so fresh out of sleep might be a real test. And it doesn't do your kids any good (if you have any) since they'd be asleep (presumably in their own room) when they start choking on OC, panicking, screaming, etc.

Then there's the heater control. Perhaps a person could install a "holster" or such by the bed where the OC can would be kept but, when removed, would disconnect power to the thermostat, making it impossible for the central air to kick in while your canister isn't in the "safe" spot.

Also, what if the criminals use gas first? If you've got something of value, and they think you're armed, the smarter ones might try to get it while you're gone...but then again they might need you to open up (money safe, gun vault, whatever).

This came to mind after seeing "Panic Room". Yes...it's a movie, thus fiction. But it did raise some questions.

For instance, say your "Panic Room" is also where you keep your extensive collection of gold eagle coins. The criminals want in, you want to keep them out.

Having seen some brochures from various safe manufactures, I've seen mentioned how their vault doors are "penetration" resistant. I take that to mean that it'll stop bullets as well as drills. I've also seen how such rooms have steel grid and laminate armor installed to stop bullets and forced entry.

That's all fine and dandy. But what about your air? The thing I kept thinking while watching "Panic Room" was how, if the guys brought a drill to drill out a safe, why the hell they didn't drill a hole through the wall or door and start bouncing some bullets around inside via ricochet?

Or, in this instance, squirt in some OC with a tube? CS was used in Vietnam to flush out VC from tunnel complexes so they could be killed. And those were soldiers. Scared women would be so much easier.

I don't think even level IV laminate armor is going to stop an electric drill from making a hole in it. And, ironicly, the very armor that was supposed to protect you will now protect the bad guy from YOUR bullets.

So Mr. Crim is busy drilling a hole through the wall, shielded by that $4,000 vault door and level IV laminate armor, and when he's done, sprays in a little (or a lot) OC or some other nasty chemical (maybe strong ammonia? Surplus masks don't filter THAT out!) and waits patiently outside with his crimies for you to either croak or come out. Either way, you'd be had.

Defenses?

[CWL]

If you have this much time & money, you can afford to buy some real defensive training.

The first thing you WOULD NOT do if you were trained, is to open your door to blast some OC -same thing as for firearms. You would stay absolutely silent & let the BGs come looking for you. Maintain the tactical advantage, do not 'spray & pray'.

If you have kids, that noise may be one of them. Nailing Jr with OC while he's on the way to the toilet is not bright. Same as if you shot a gun into the dark.

If you have emphysema, WHY would you want to use OC/CS inside your own house? You stand a good chance on getting some of the stuff over yourself.

Get a dog. Get better alarms. Look for other options.

[LASur5r]

Just when I get my layers of defense worked out, you guys come up with something else. Now I have to work out a fire suppression system in. I was avoiding that......a big chunk of change has to be used for home defense.
But we roll the dice and gamble every day, right?

[HS/LD]

"Now, if for instance, I was to hear an intruder in the hallway and cracked open the door to blast a cloud of gas from my "assualt" sprayer........ Given my emphysema, exposure could trigger a fatal airway seizure attack. Not a good outcome in my opinion."

Defenses?

Well I thought really long and hard on this one as you pose some serious questions here...

Why wouldn't you just blast a cloud of buckshot?

Most powders are so fast burning these days it shouldn't be too bad for you emphysema.

Then when the bad guy has fallen over trying to find his innards you can just sprinkle some ground black pepper on him.

Regards,
HS/LD

[nbk2000]

I don't have tear gas, just a rifle. Though others may have it reversed and/or have respiratory problems too. Also, many adult asthmatics didn't know they were till their first respiratory seizure sends them to the hospital. The worst time to find that out would be after getting yourself maced while dealing with an intruder.

Fortunately I haven't read about criminals using OC to flush people out of their safe rooms or such, just in simple muggings. But it's just a matter of time before someone gets the idea to try it. And once that gets on the TV news, or in the jails, it'll spread.

If I was going to use OC myself, I'd have the kind that uses a hose. Small hole drilled in the door long before hand in preparation, slip hose through hole just a bit when BITN is heard, then hose away.

Fortunately no kids to worry about, but if I did have any, it'd be better to mace them than point a gun at them which could prove fatal under the wrong circumstances. I'd also assume that the kids would be part of your training so they know better than to go creeping about in front of your bedroom door at O'dark Thirty.

A simple defense against against getting gassed out, regardless of what it is, would be an exterior air supply. This could be as simple as a pipe going through the ceiling of your safe room to the roof. Snorkel mouthpieces are connected to long vinyl tubes, and there's your fresh air supply. Cheap face masks to protect your eyes complete the ensemble. Looks weird, but who cares, it'd work and it's cheap.

Fire would be a whole other story, though I think the likelyhood of crims trying to burn you out is unlikely since that'd destroy whatever they're after if it's in the safe room with you. The only group of armed thugs that like to burn people up that I'm aware of is the BATF (Burn All Toddlers First).

If you used a dry chemical extinguisher in a small room, you'd quickly choke on the dust by simple mechanical asphyxiation. Plus it reduce your visibility to nil, possible gum up your weapons, and other problems.

CO2 would smother you by oxygen displacement, but if you're using an exterior air supply as previously mentioned, it wouldn't affect your visibility or weapons. Though you'd want some way of venting it out. Perhaps a simple blower.

Halon would be best. There's several different types, some of which will smother the fire without smothering you. Though with the eco-freaks ban on fluorocarbons, Halon is expensive since the stockpile is diminishing.

[Admiral Thrawn]

That's right! Bring out the tear gas and flashbangs... not to mention the CCW frag grenades and my napalm cocktails....

Seriously, I think that using something like gas just creates more difficulty for yourself, and you'll have to worry about things like masks...

Personally, I think that firearms should be perfectly sufficient. The perps decide to give up their rights the moment they bust into your home. You don't owe them a second chance.

[C.R.Sam]

I don't like the concept of trapping myself in a "strong room".

I prefer having my perimeter secure enough that in the event of breach, I will be readier for them than they are for me.

The possibility of whole house circulation of noxious gasses is a very good point.

I am lucky enough to live in an area where if an intruder is worthy of gassing, they are worthy of shooting.

Sam.

[nbk2000]

The other possibility is to deliberately use the central air system to gas the house with OC. This might be done if there several intruders in various places throughout the house.

Rather than trying to clear each room (which would be stupid anyways), flip on the gas and let it do the job for you.

It's a different situation when you have already planned for its deliberate dispersal (rather than accidental), so you control the time and manner of its use.

There's some burglar repellant system that uses OC to flood a business with gas to keep thieves from making off with the goods. Same thing could be hooked up to the house alarm to turn on the central air and release the gas to give a burglar a nasty midnight snack.

Also, while firearms are generally the best defensive weapon, one musn't put all their eggs in the gun basket. Keeping your defensive options varied and flexible provides for greater flexibility in your ability to respond to a situation. Not all problems are nails.

[racegunner]

I'll pass on this bit of my stupidness; I had a bat in the house (a weekly problem at the time) once that I couldn't get with a tennis racket...the OC was there and I was curious:barf:
Spent the night weezing on the porch when the furnace went on.

A gun is the answer. If there's an intruder in your house while you are home you must assume they intend maximum harm otherwise you will create a mess of the situation or a standoff or hostage situation and wish you wouldn't have fooled around with "defensive options varied and flexible". When in doubt use maximum force, it's not your duty to make an arrest in this situation. Now if you rig your house with Mustard gas.....