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Old October 10, 2018, 06:20 PM   #1
cw308
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Expandable Batons

Anyone out there have a preference on a make and length for a expandable Baton. Would like to know , thanks .
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Old October 14, 2018, 02:35 AM   #2
NathanHoln
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Following.

I have also been looking into batons. There are situations where it is a bad idea to deploy a firearm, such as crowded areas, and thumpy weapons can neutralize a hostile party much faster that an edged weapon usually, either knocking them out or stunning them or smacking them in the hand or forearm. It's been noted in many fights that people who get slashed may not notice until the fight is over due to adrenaline, so knifes aren't the best for "knockdown power," and 17 knife wounds hurt any case for self defense. Blunt instruments cause immediate pain and may damage muscle or bone, and with a strike to somewhere like a hand, it may end a fight much quicker without having to using terminally lethal force.
I have a couple wood clubs, one a mini-bat and another "sawed-off baseball bat" (a Louisville Slugger type Goodwill bat cut down short enough to wield with one hand) and am now looking over options for something that could be carried on a belt.

Been looking at surplus stuff. There's a lot of pricey stuff and a lot of the lower priced ones are sketchy AF. SMG has some British and Chinese police batons which I think I may get. They had them on sale recently but it appears to have ended.
https://www.sportsmansguide.com/productlist?k=baton
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Old October 14, 2018, 07:36 PM   #3
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I am looking at the ASP Expandable baton friction loc 4140 steel 21" . They are up there in price but when push comes to shove , I want it to work . Be Ready , Be Safe . Thanks for answering
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Old October 14, 2018, 08:21 PM   #4
Tom-R2
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Lots of us preferred the 21" models, the 24" seemed a little too long. If you can go to a store with both sizes, try swinging them and see which one feels better.
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Old October 14, 2018, 09:51 PM   #5
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Good advice . What baton do you like best.
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Old October 15, 2018, 08:31 AM   #6
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It is my impression (I have never owned one or even held one) that they do not have the weight to actually disable (break bones, render unconscious) an attacker, but more of a "punishment" weapon that encourages compliance. Do I have the wrong impression?
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Old October 15, 2018, 10:46 AM   #7
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I don't really know , I walk alot with my wife through parks and wooded area . Just something to carry instead of a walking with a walking stick.
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Old October 15, 2018, 10:46 AM   #8
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Better check your local laws. They're illegal to carry in Texas and I would imagine in other states/localities. I'm surprised they'd be legal in NY but I certainly don't know.
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Old October 15, 2018, 11:18 AM   #9
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I would think doing harm to anyone with anything to be illegal. Protecting yourself and loved ones is another subject . Everyone has that right no matter what you use . Maybe time to change the law if they are . Thanks for the heads up.
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Old October 15, 2018, 01:35 PM   #10
T. O'Heir
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They're illegal in a lot of places. Including NYS. Absolutely in NYC.
This is the best of many.
https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/i...y-1610893.html
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Old October 15, 2018, 07:45 PM   #11
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I guess it's best to keep a aluminum bat hoping to get more time at the batting range safer.
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Old October 18, 2018, 02:37 AM   #12
Mikef262
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The length is based upon the user. Much like a baseball bat. Go to a store and try different lengths. Take the tail cap and place it in the pocket of your arm somewhat similar to a rifle. The tip of the baton should be at your finger tips. The smaller the baton the easier it is to control and recover from.

Second, learn the proper strikes and location on the body where you can strike. Such as the rear of the calf. The radial area near the wrist. The inner part of the leg, not the groin, and outter part of the thigh. As well as a few others.

Third, become aware of your local laws.

A collapsible baton is a useful weapon if you practice with it, and are comfortable deploying it. Think about how you are going to carry it. Drawing it, under stress, from a gun belt can be a task. Even with the rotating carrier. Having it in a large coat pocket or tucked in a waistband would be even harder I would imagine.
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Old October 18, 2018, 09:17 AM   #13
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It's never a even playing field , the bad one doesn't care about laws . The law abiding citizen goes through the background checks , pay money and time to get licensed . Then with all that if you decide to carry a tool less lethal in some areas it all goes out the window. I saw a demonstration on TV where a demonstrates using a baton hitting this guy's car and nothing happened to him , he just walked with it opened in his hand . It may be best to go back to the wild wild west where everyone has the right to protect themselves & loved ones with no restrictions.
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Old October 18, 2018, 09:53 AM   #14
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Duing my time as a LE trainer i picked up a couple of certifications as a baton instructor. ASP, Monadnock and Koga. All straight batons of one sort or the other. Ive also used them in the field.

None of the collapsible ones were anywhere near as effective as a standard fullsize straight stick. I carried a 29” Diamond wood Koga baton. Id MUCH rather use a good OC spray or a TASER.

Ive bent one of the Monadnock collapsable batons on a subjects leg and had almost ZERO effect. No drugs, just fighting mad.

I dont see any of the smaller batons being a good choice for EDC type CCW. Just not worth the effort to carry.

You also need to consider where a baton fits in the use of for e continuum. Its not appropriate against a firearm. Against a knife, you'd better be damn good and really lucky (even with more then a decade of serious stick training, i would not use a baton against a knife).

So you are left using a baton against an empty hand attack. In the civilian world, im not sure how that will play out. A baton has the capacity to be lethal. In LE work we use them to affect an arrest and are justified in using the force necessary.

In the civilian SD realm, its not so clear. Lets consider an empty hand attack. Guy comes at you to kick your Butt. You draw your baton and try to hit his arm, but he ducks and takes it to the side of the head (very possible). He crumples to the ground DEAD. How do you justify that use of force?

Empty hand against empty hand, is one thing. Introduce a weapon and it gets messy
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Old October 18, 2018, 03:23 PM   #15
cw308
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Shark bite
Thank You for taking the time in answering my post with very good advise . I'm 71 in good shape , lower back and shoulder problems from playing hard in sports and gym workouts . I still feel I can go a few rounds but let's be realistic . If I we're going up against a guy half my age I may need a equilizer.

I've been stabbed and shot at in war ( Vietnam ) an just want to be able to protect myself . 911 is a great thing but most of the time it's after the fact . I have family members in LE and in active military , at this point in time you just want to enjoy life but at the same time not bury your head in the sand .

Would carrying a baton be against the law .
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Old October 18, 2018, 03:36 PM   #16
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Quote:
Would carrying a baton be against the law .
That TOTALLY depends on where you are. When i started my LE time i was in Calif. a baton is a felony there. Some states have provisions to carry one under your CCW permit, i think there are states that no permit is needed to carry one.
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Old October 18, 2018, 04:27 PM   #17
cw308
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Thanks Shark
I do have a carry permit will look into it .Thanks Again.
Chris
PS That fighting mad guy you bent your baton around his leg . I can imagine that but I'm
sure he'll think twice the next time . It always hurts more 1 and 2 days later.

Last edited by cw308; October 18, 2018 at 04:37 PM.
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Old October 18, 2018, 04:46 PM   #18
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Maybe, but that didnt help the fight in the parking lot then. My partner ended up putting him to sleep with a LVNR and proceeded to laugh as i tried to get my baton to close again...no luck.

Monadnock Replaced it under warranty.

You should look into a good can of OC. Not the end all be all, but easier to carry AND use then any impact weapon.
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Old October 18, 2018, 10:07 PM   #19
cw308
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Shark
That night turned out well , I can picture what that must have looked like , he probably laughs about it till this day I would . My Son in law has a partner that's 5'6 and he's 6'4. You have to see the looks when they step out of the car. Anyway , nice talking with you . Be Safe out there.

Chris
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Old October 18, 2018, 10:58 PM   #20
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I have a collapsible about 16" give or take a couple. I mainly use it during my walks in case a dog starts running towards me. I use my naa 22 mag for the 2 legged dogs incase they run towards me.
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Old October 18, 2018, 11:09 PM   #21
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I still think a good cane is miles beyond the collapsible baton for civilian carry. It has longer reach, and it’s already in your hand...and, old man with cane attacked by thug, etc.
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Old October 19, 2018, 10:08 AM   #22
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Quote:
I still think a good cane is miles beyond the collapsible baton for civilian carry. It has longer reach, and it’s already in your hand...and, old man with cane attacked by thug, etc.
I dont know why that didnt occur to me. Cane Master makes some VERY nice fighting canes. Proper wood, more open hooks, griping surfaces built in, you can even carry them on a plane.

Might take a look
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Old October 19, 2018, 01:07 PM   #23
cw308
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amd6547 & Sharkbite
Thanks for your professional advice . To give you some of my background , I grew up in the projects NY , after returning home from a combat tour in VN I did carry illegally at first , then went through a safety course ,joined a gun club an receivied a legal range pistol permit . To and from the range in a locked box . To be honest the box was empty . I did have one incident when I carried illegally that made me go legal . That was all in my 20's back in the 60's

The way things are going in this country its just like the 60's . I live in a nice area , never got in trouble , have a carry permit but I always feel you have a right to protect yourself . Its one thing to look for trouble another to be ready if it comes your way . The 21" ASP 4140 baton seems to be the perfect tool for me and hopefully like everything else will never have to use it.

Thanks Guys for all your help full advice .
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Old October 20, 2018, 01:04 PM   #24
T. O'Heir
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"...do have a carry permit..." The link goes to a NYS lawyer's on-line advice site. Having a NY State CCW apparently does not apply to a baton. Absolutely does not in NYC. Bolding is mine. ("Shirken" isn't a thing either. "Shuriken" is. Mind you, the Urban Dictionary has a definition. snicker. https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shirken)

"New York Laws: Penal : (265.00 - 265.40) Firearms And Other Dangerous Weapons

§ 265.01 Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree. A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree when: (1) He possesses any firearm, electronic dart gun, electronic stun gun, gravity knife, switchblade knife, pilum ballistic knife, metal knuckle knife, cane sword, billy, blackjack, bludgeon,metal knuckles, chuka stick, sand bag, sandclub, wrist-brace type slingshot or slungshot, shirken or "Kung Fu star"; or (2) He possesses any dagger, dangerous knife, dirk, razor, stiletto, imitation pistol, or any other dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon with intent to use the same unlawfully against another;>>>"
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Old October 20, 2018, 08:10 PM   #25
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ASP...And it will be treated as a deadly weapon unless you can show you know how to use it in a non-deadly weapon.
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