Tucked shirt in IDPA

steambucket · November 8, 2014, 07:28 PM

Hello everybody. This is my first post on the forum

(edit... I guess second... I forgot about one)
My question is with an OWB leather holster, I was told at my last match I should tuck my shirt in because some (idiot) body had a ND because their shirt was in the way when drawing.

This sounds kinda stupid to me.

I didn't argue, but isn't it against the whole point of I(defensive)PA matches?

The main reason I ask is because I just got a glock 23 for carry, and would like to use a leather iwb that will not be very practical with a tucked in shirt.

Thanks in advance. I didn't want to argue with the RSO in the middle of a match.

It was also not a REAL IDPA, it was a basic IDPA that a gun club near me does... similar but not "official" and (possibly) geared towards revolver shooters and possibly a bit watered down.

Jim Watson · November 8, 2014, 08:17 PM

I see a lot of what I call "relentlessly tactical" shooters working out from under shirttails. You have to be careful, but what is new about that?

steambucket · November 8, 2014, 09:01 PM

I usually carry with my shirt untucked, so it seems like how I should shoot matches. I think part of my problem is shooting at the "basic" matches. I am definitely not a newbie. I see those guys at my shooting range all the time... usually they rapid fire (against the rules) into a target 5 yards away into a 12 inch group. I also don't put my finger on the trigger in the draw sequence... more like when I am about 90-95% to being on target... i.e. pointed at but not pinpoint aimed...

GJSchulze · November 9, 2014, 03:43 AM

With a t-shirt or sport shirt with tails you need to clear the shirt (by lifting it) passed the gun with your weak hand while drawing with your strong hand. No one should have their finger on the trigger until they are presenting the gun toward the target. You also need to be careful when reholstering by holding the shirt.

But you are right that you have to be an idiot to have your shirt cause an ND.

Any good defensive pistol class will teach you how to do this.

For an actual IDPA competition stick to a vest or jacket.

Now, why is rapid firing against the rules? I've heard that before and never understood. If someone can't be trusted to stay on target shooting fast, how can he be trusted doing it slowly? And how fast is fast?

steambucket · November 9, 2014, 03:28 PM

The rapid fire thing is a different range.... 1 second per shot is allowed there

GJSchulze · November 9, 2014, 03:58 PM

Quote:

The rapid fire thing is a different range.... 1 second per shot is allowed there

Wow! one shot per second! Be still my heart. That's too slow to practice for any competition. What are they afraid of??

If you fire in self defense, you might want to be capable of firing a controlled pair faster than that.

Jim Watson · November 9, 2014, 07:17 PM

Very common at commercial ranges, especially indoor. Look at the holes in the ceiling baffles and sidewalls and you will understand why they do not trust your ability.

There are things you can practice that take longer than one second per round.
Shoot one, reload, shoot another.
Shoot one, tac load, shoot another.
Shoot one, change hands, shoot another

GJSchulze · November 9, 2014, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Look at the holes in the ceiling baffles and sidewalls

Our club has had holes in the baffles and ceiling. It never occurred to me that it was because of firing too fast. I would think that it's more likely NDs of people that have never learned proper gun handling. My club installed cameras on the indoor range, but I have no idea if they've ever caught anyone.
I did realize last week that I have seen such holes or heard complaints of holes, so maybe the cameras are working.

RickB · November 10, 2014, 10:05 AM

So, this almost-IDPA doesn't require a concealment garment? If they do, and you don't have a jacket or other outer wear, you must leave your shirt untucked so the holstered gun is not exposed.

Captains1911 · November 12, 2014, 02:11 PM

When you say you were told "you should tuck your shirt in" was it a suggestion or was the RSO implying it was against the rules? If you are competing with an outer shooting vest that is open in front, I agree that you should tuck your shirt in for safety and quickness. If you are competing with just an untucked shirt and no other concealment garment similar to how you would carry day to day, then you should not tuck in your shirt unless you are not playing by IDPA rules.

tedbeau · July 29, 2015, 01:30 PM

if you had an outer cover garment, like the famous "Shoot Mw First" vest that everyone claims the bad guys are going to recognize and target you for then you would want to tuck your shirt in. If your shirt is your cover garment, which IDPA requires unless specifically stated in course of fire (or during a standards stage) then you should leave the shirt untucked.

Here's my take on it;

First off, I was just SO'ing my clubs IDPA practice night a few weeks ago and several times I told a new shooter to tuck in his shirt. He didn't have a cover garment per say, and it was just a practice session. The concern I had was that his shirt was partially tucked in, but blousing, or billowing up near his holster.

When I was just started to shoot IDPA I got DQ'ed from a practice session when I was using an untucked shirt as a cover garment. The shirt got caught in my holster as I reholstered after loading and making ready. I realized it and thought I could just pull the shirt out. The gun came out with the shirt and landed on the floor.

I think the RO was just wanting to prevent just such a thing from happening. If your going to use a shirt as a cover garment, and a lot of shooters do, just be very aware of the issue and make sure your keeping it clear when holstering.

RickB · July 29, 2015, 01:32 PM

If it's not IDPA, then they can have whatever rules they want, for whatever reason.

GJSchulze · July 30, 2015, 01:15 AM

Quote:

The shirt got caught in my holster as I reholstered after loading and making ready

I've had similar problems when holstering, but not on the draw. It can even happen with a vest. I either catch it or the RO says something. It really depends on the configuration of gun & holster.

That said, if you're carrying, there are times when you do just wear an untucked shirt, so you need to learn how to get it out of the way. Personally I do wear a vest during the summer. I figure the bad guys aren't smart enough to know. I suppose it's always possible a member of IDPA could be bad. I'll take my chances.

serf 'rett · August 4, 2015, 12:05 PM

IDPA requires a cover garment with the exceptions of classifer or standards stages or LEO/military full dress (or Tier One local matches when the SO decide it's hot as hades and we're not going to double layer cause all us old fat f***s will roast) or...see the new and confused rule book...

The important part is keeping the garment clear when drawing.

The REALLY important part is KEEPING THE GARMENT OUT OF THE WAY when reholstering. This is easy with a vest, but presents a greater hazard with say tee shirts, whether they are tucked or untucked. It pays to watch out for tucked light weight shirts when reholstering. They can be partually pulled out during the draw or load/make ready part and can get easily caught when reholstering.

Never let yourself get in a hurry when reholstering.

tedbeau · August 6, 2015, 11:31 AM

Quote:

I've had similar problems when holstering, but not on the draw. It can even happen with a vest. I either catch it or the RO says something. It really depends on the configuration of gun & holster.

That said, if you're carrying, there are times when you do just wear an untucked shirt, so you need to learn how to get it out of the way. Personally I do wear a vest during the summer. I figure the bad guys aren't smart enough to know. I suppose it's always possible a member of IDPA could be bad. I'll take my chances.

Yeah I don't think it's as much an issue on the draw. If it catches the gun it may slow you down a little but as long as you got a good sweep of the shirtn and managed to get a good grip on the gun, a hammer or sight caught on a shirt is not going to hang you up to long and shouldn't cause a gun drop as long as its not between the hand and the gun.

I wear a cover shirt, (usually a tee) most of the time when I am CC'ing. I only wear a vest for competition or if I am stopping somewhere on the way to or from the range.

I don't worry to much about the shirt getting caught reholstering if I ever had to use the gun in a real SD situation because if I have to draw my gun for real, I am not reholsteing. I plan on keeping it in my hand until LEO arrives and then they are not going to let me reholster it anyways, it's most likely getting dropped or set on the ground while I go face down.

November 8, 2014, 07:28 PM	#1
steambucket Junior Member Join Date: October 25, 2014 Posts: 4	Tucked shirt in IDPA Hello everybody. This is my first post on the forum (edit... I guess second... I forgot about one) My question is with an OWB leather holster, I was told at my last match I should tuck my shirt in because some (idiot) body had a ND because their shirt was in the way when drawing. This sounds kinda stupid to me. I didn't argue, but isn't it against the whole point of I(defensive)PA matches? The main reason I ask is because I just got a glock 23 for carry, and would like to use a leather iwb that will not be very practical with a tucked in shirt. Thanks in advance. I didn't want to argue with the RSO in the middle of a match. It was also not a REAL IDPA, it was a basic IDPA that a gun club near me does... similar but not "official" and (possibly) geared towards revolver shooters and possibly a bit watered down.

July 29, 2015, 01:32 PM	#12
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	If it's not IDPA, then they can have whatever rules they want, for whatever reason. __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.

August 4, 2015, 12:05 PM	#14
serf 'rett Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2009 Location: Stuttgart, AR Posts: 1,569	IDPA requires a cover garment with the exceptions of classifer or standards stages or LEO/military full dress (or Tier One local matches when the SO decide it's hot as hades and we're not going to double layer cause all us old fat f***s will roast) or...see the new and confused rule book... The important part is keeping the garment clear when drawing. The REALLY important part is KEEPING THE GARMENT OUT OF THE WAY when reholstering. This is easy with a vest, but presents a greater hazard with say tee shirts, whether they are tucked or untucked. It pays to watch out for tucked light weight shirts when reholstering. They can be partually pulled out during the draw or load/make ready part and can get easily caught when reholstering. Never let yourself get in a hurry when reholstering. __________________ A lack of planning on your part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on my part.

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November 8, 2014, 08:17 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,534	I see a lot of what I call "relentlessly tactical" shooters working out from under shirttails. You have to be careful, but what is new about that?

November 8, 2014, 09:01 PM	#3
steambucket Junior Member Join Date: October 25, 2014 Posts: 4	I usually carry with my shirt untucked, so it seems like how I should shoot matches. I think part of my problem is shooting at the "basic" matches. I am definitely not a newbie. I see those guys at my shooting range all the time... usually they rapid fire (against the rules) into a target 5 yards away into a 12 inch group. I also don't put my finger on the trigger in the draw sequence... more like when I am about 90-95% to being on target... i.e. pointed at but not pinpoint aimed...

November 9, 2014, 03:43 AM	#4
GJSchulze Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2013 Location: Western New York Posts: 454	With a t-shirt or sport shirt with tails you need to clear the shirt (by lifting it) passed the gun with your weak hand while drawing with your strong hand. No one should have their finger on the trigger until they are presenting the gun toward the target. You also need to be careful when reholstering by holding the shirt. But you are right that you have to be an idiot to have your shirt cause an ND. Any good defensive pistol class will teach you how to do this. For an actual IDPA competition stick to a vest or jacket. Now, why is rapid firing against the rules? I've heard that before and never understood. If someone can't be trusted to stay on target shooting fast, how can he be trusted doing it slowly? And how fast is fast?

November 9, 2014, 03:28 PM	#5
steambucket Junior Member Join Date: October 25, 2014 Posts: 4	The rapid fire thing is a different range.... 1 second per shot is allowed there

November 9, 2014, 07:17 PM	#7
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,534	Very common at commercial ranges, especially indoor. Look at the holes in the ceiling baffles and sidewalls and you will understand why they do not trust your ability. There are things you can practice that take longer than one second per round. Shoot one, reload, shoot another. Shoot one, tac load, shoot another. Shoot one, change hands, shoot another

November 10, 2014, 10:05 AM	#9
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	So, this almost-IDPA doesn't require a concealment garment? If they do, and you don't have a jacket or other outer wear, you must leave your shirt untucked so the holstered gun is not exposed.

November 12, 2014, 02:11 PM	#10
Captains1911 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2009 Location: West of the Blue Ridge, VA Posts: 684	When you say you were told "you should tuck your shirt in" was it a suggestion or was the RSO implying it was against the rules? If you are competing with an outer shooting vest that is open in front, I agree that you should tuck your shirt in for safety and quickness. If you are competing with just an untucked shirt and no other concealment garment similar to how you would carry day to day, then you should not tuck in your shirt unless you are not playing by IDPA rules.

July 29, 2015, 01:30 PM	#11
tedbeau Member Join Date: March 17, 2015 Posts: 54	if you had an outer cover garment, like the famous "Shoot Mw First" vest that everyone claims the bad guys are going to recognize and target you for then you would want to tuck your shirt in. If your shirt is your cover garment, which IDPA requires unless specifically stated in course of fire (or during a standards stage) then you should leave the shirt untucked. Here's my take on it; First off, I was just SO'ing my clubs IDPA practice night a few weeks ago and several times I told a new shooter to tuck in his shirt. He didn't have a cover garment per say, and it was just a practice session. The concern I had was that his shirt was partially tucked in, but blousing, or billowing up near his holster. When I was just started to shoot IDPA I got DQ'ed from a practice session when I was using an untucked shirt as a cover garment. The shirt got caught in my holster as I reholstered after loading and making ready. I realized it and thought I could just pull the shirt out. The gun came out with the shirt and landed on the floor. I think the RO was just wanting to prevent just such a thing from happening. If your going to use a shirt as a cover garment, and a lot of shooters do, just be very aware of the issue and make sure your keeping it clear when holstering.