Any practical use?

[Pond, James Pond]

Just curious:

A local stockist is selling one of these. It's a striker-fired polymer pistol with a folding stock and RDS but can be carried concealed!

Is it "overkill"? Is it a pistol making a poor impersonation of a carbine? It is a pistol that is no better, but more cumbersome than other pistols?

Or does it do a good job of bridging the gap?

At 2500EUR I certainly won't be buying one!

[rock185]

No offense, but it just looks like another of those silly SMG wannabe things to me. I actually got paid to carry a firearm for most of my adult working life. I would have hated to be required to carry some bulky thing like that with all it's accouterments instead of a conventional pistol. Yea, I see it's about added range. FWIW, a reasonably good shot can make hits on a man sized target at 100 yards using iron sights on a plain old boring conventional pistol.

Practical use? It's certainly more practical in some circumstances than a single shot firearm, or no firearm at all......ymmv

[bedbugbilly]

I agree - a "wannabe" and IMHO, just another person; or company's way of taking someones hard earned money for something that has little practice use. It might be "fun" for a while to have as a range toy, but I'm thinking a person would soon tire of it and it would be collecting dust. But, different strokes for different folks and if somebody likes it, then more power to them.

[Pond, James Pond]

No offense,

None taken: it's not my product!!

[Hal]

Looks like Napoleon Solo, Illya Kuryakin & April Dancer have a new toy .

[44 AMP]

It is a pistol that is no better, but more cumbersome than other pistols?

It would appear so, to me.

Boil it down to the essentials. It is a 9mm Luger (aka 9x19mm Nato, aka 9mm Parabellum) pistol with magazines of 17,19, & 30 rounds (one each, supplied).

Plastic frame, striker fired (no available information about the trigger pull),
folding stock, optic sight and pistol light supplied. There appear to be no "iron sights".

approximately 4.4" barrel.

weighs about 2lbs (empty, I assume)

Looks like you can't grab the rear of the slide, only the front, for cocking.

The review didn't get to fire it, apparently didn't get to even pull the trigger either, as they can tell us nothing about it. They note the folding stock "appears robust enough" but again, no actual use trial was done, so we simply don't know.

If the stock wiggles, wobbles or flexes when locked open, its actually worse than no stock at all.

Using the stock, and dot sight to engage bad guys at 100m isn't something of importance for most of us. Threaded barrel allowing the use of a suppressor is nice, for those who can use one legally. Again, not a major concern for those of us in the USA (where the gun would not be private citizen legal anyway, because of the stock). AND, adding a suppressor adds several (8?) inches to the length, which works directly against ease of concealment.

As a weapon for a security detail, it might have some use, but not as much as a select fire weapon, and I see it as inferior to a purpose built SBR (in a rifle caliber) for range.

For personal self defense, you have a standard 9mm pistol with a 4" barrel, in a more bulky configuration (stock folded), which works against ease of use in a close range defense confrontation. More crap on the gun means its not as easy to draw, and fire fast.

Maybe that's important to you, maybe its not. If the stock were easily detachable, it would make a difference, as you could choose to have it on the gun, or not. This does not seem to be the case, looks like stock is permanent, and your only choices are extended or folded.

Even if it was legal, (and cheap) where I live, I wouldn't choose it.

[Kvon2]

I've always thought one of these in .22lr would be a fun zombie gun. But since zombies don't exist I don't see much use. I'd probably buy one though

[T. O'Heir]

"...another of those silly SMG wannabe things..." Exactly. A big kid's toy, that I believe would get him arrested, Stateside, if he's without the necessary permit.
However, that kind of stuff was all the rage since long before the 1800's. Turned a cavalryman's pistol into a carbine. Colt SAA, BHP, C96 Mauser, 1911's, etc, etc., all had stocks at one time or another.

[seeker_two]

I'd rather have a FN P90 (esp. in 9mm) than a lot of these new takes on PDWs.....

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[marine6680]

If I remember correctly... They are marketing this thing as a general issue police sidearm.

Meant to be the main duty weapon of an armed patrol officer. Mostly in Europe, where they may not be in a vehicle, and on foot or otherwise not in a position to have a larger weapon on standby.

This would allow them to have greater firepower and long range accuracy should they need, without the appearance of carrying around a sling rifle or SMG..

[Pond, James Pond]

They are marketing this thing as a general issue police sidearm.

That was the spiel on the stockist's site but it is a store that equally sells to civilians.
I could essentially buy one if I was rich and prone to immature impulse buying.

Only one of those is true of me.
Go on; have a guess....

[zincwarrior]

That is ugly as sin.

[TunnelRat]

I feel like a PDW or SMG would accomplish the role obviously better. As just a pistol it seems to be to be verging on the point of getting ungainly and I feel like I'd want to deploy the stock as almost SOP unless there was a threat in close contact. That said marine brings up a good point in that I imagine there are more foot officers in Europe than here. Here where every officer has a SBR or SBS in a cruiser this doesn't seem particularly useful. In a foot scenario this is sort of an unhappy medium. More capability but heavier than a typical pistol, but less capability than other options.

[dakota.potts]

I guess it depends how likely you're looking at "practical". If you're of the mindset to keep or prepare something like a bug out bag, I think it would go nicely (although pretty expensive for the purpose). If you're worried about getting out somewhere while still being able to carry a capable firearm, I think it's a neat little package. I'd much rather have the stock and red dot sight to a conventional pistol.

Could also be very good for home defense for people who need something easy to use. A 9mm handgun is difficult for some people to handle effectively and those same people may have difficulty using a shotgun or rifle. A PDW sized carbine with a dot and red dot sight would significantly improve handling over a standard pistol.

Other than that, it's a pretty neat toy and I'd love to play with one.

[James K]

There is always something to keep the ammo companies happy, make a lot of useless noise, get the anti-gun gangsters all worked up, and serve no purpose whatsoever.

Most military forces have tossed the SMG as nearly useless in modern tactical situations at best and a dangerous bullet squirter at worst. A small carbine that plays at being an SMG is even more useless.

Jim

[MTT TL]

SMG's lack the power and range to be useful to military, lack the precision to be useful to the police. Very few LEA's still use them.

However, if I wanted a SMG for 2500EU I would simply buy one. Taking a pistol and slapping a suppressor, stock, sight and extended mag on it would likely give you a less reliable and cohesive package then a purpose built SMG.

[44 AMP]

Most military forces have tossed the SMG as nearly useless in modern tactical situations ...

SMG's lack the power and range to be useful to military,...

I disagree, at least with the phrasing.... I don't think the military dropped the SMG because it was (nearly) useless, after all it was very useful in WWII, and Korea, and its just as useful now as it was then.

I think they dropped the SMG because the modern assault rifle (and especially the chopped carbine/compact versions) as more useful than the standard pistol caliber SMG. In other words, something that is (or can be) the size of an SMG and has double or triple the useful range and power gets the nod over the less capable (but not useless) SMG.

[seeker_two]

SMGs that weighed as much as a rifle were replaced by intermediate rifles like the AK and AR automatic rifles. When SMGs got a lot smaller, they started filling the PDW roles (Vz61 Skorpion, Micro Uzi, MAC-10). Later, PDWs like the FN P90 & HK MP7 pushed SMGs aside, but not completely out.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

[CalmerThanYou]

Without a barrel long enough to grip with your non trigger hand, I do not see the effective purpose of the folding stock. Even with a Kriss Vector or the new Sig Rattler you have room, albeit not much.

[Carmady]

Spy stuff

[IMightBeWrong]

I dunno about practical but I like it lol

Looks like a Sphinx SDP frame but the rest of it is different. If somebody wants to buy one for me I’ll gladly wear the title of wannabe!

[SA1911]

It's marginal self-defense for jackalopes and chupacabras, maybe walkers...maybe...

[johnwilliamson062]

Yea, I see it's about added range. FWIW, a reasonably good shot can make hits on a man sized target at 100 yards using iron sights on a plain old boring conventional pistol.

Your right. I can. The vast majority of people I have known who were paid to carry a gun weren't reasonably well trained in how to use it though.

Without a barrel long enough to grip with your non trigger hand, I do not see the effective purpose of the folding stock.

You still get a lot more stability and recoil control shouldering.

There are better similar options IMO. These probably skirts some laws in foreign countries.