On alert ALL NIGHT !!!

[kymasabe]

I was watching TV a night ago when my wife ,(who was in the next room) and I both heard our front door knob turn. The deadbold as locked so no one came in. I had my Kel-Tec .380 in my pocket, wandered outside carefully with the dog, nobody around. Thought I was hearing things or maybe the door wasn't closed all the way or something. An hour later, my wife goes out and a few blocks away, the cops are searching the woods with K9 units. I called the cops to tell them what happened, they say it's nothing to worry about. My wife comes right home, we're hanging out when suddenly we see someone run thru the side yard and jump my neighbors fence. No one in the neighborhood in their right mind would jump that fance, neighbor has a nasty German Shephard. So, put the Kel-Tec away, take out the Taurus 9mm, 3 full mags of Hydro-Shok at the ready, put both kids in one room (they were already asleep), lock all windows and doors...and laid awake almost all night keeping an eye on things.

[Eghad]

So did the German Sheperd get some late night snacks?

[leadcounsel]

Let me get this straight....

You AND your wife heard someone attempting to enter your house resulting in the rattling of your door nob, so you WENT OUTSIDE armed with only a small .380???? And you didn't put your kids someplace safe when this happened, or when the police were searching w/ K9 units later, but only when you saw someone. And then all you grabbed was the 9mm??? And your wife went out an hour later into the neighborhood alone and presumably unarmed?

Did I understand that correctly?

No offense, but I think you could have handled that better. Going outside makes you an immediate target AND gives the badguy an entry point into the house after he's shot and killed you, leaving your family vulnerable. Never go outside to investigate. Also, IMO, and this will get debated, but .380 is inadequate for home defense too. It's great for light duty pocket carry, but you needed something bigger (like your 9mm) in that case. NEVER go outside to investigate or clear a house for what turned out to be a real burglar trying to get into your house. YOU ARE LUCKY TO HAVE NOT BEEN ATTACKED AND KILLED.

My reaction would have been completely different. Wife and I get guns and phone and round up kids and all get in safe room of house and call the police and wait with guns trained on entry point(s). Alternately, if you are sure he's not in the house, close all blinds and cover entry points/hallways, etc.
Preferably shotguns or .223 with handguns as backups. Have spare key on glowlight/keyring to toss to police in the event burglar gets into house.

[Avid Concealer]

I think he's joking. Surely he didn't really go outside when that's where he thought the threat was. It's likely that whoever was outside had a gun too and has a much better position on someone walking to the exterior considering..

1. there are only a few given exits from the home.
2. whoever was outside already had better night vision considering their eyes have adjusted properly to the lack of light.
3. If he is serious, I hope he reads these 2 simple facts of many others that prove that going outside was an rather dumb decision. Thank God nothing happend.

[DanV1317]

instead of going out the same door the guy tried to get in, i would have gone up stairs and started looking out the windows down to see if i could find anybody.

You should look into getting some motion sensor lights around your house.

[tsavo]

I wouldn't say he's lucky. Very few people are ever killed in home invasions, infact statistically the majority of people aren't home when their house is being robbed unless the BG is very stupid. Granted it wasn't smart to go outside, but it was very doubtful that he would have been shot outside his home. Are you sure he even attempted to enter the house? You said you were listening to the tv but you also heard the door knob turn?

[tshadow6]

you did the right thing

[MRex21]

You people are almost unbelievable. What a pathetic bunch of monday morning quarterbacking from a group of weekend commando wannabes.

+100 to kymasabe.

You protected your family. There is no more honorable duty required of a man. Thank goodness you, your wife, and your children are safe. I applaud you.

[Ingram]

I will have to agree with Leadcounsel. Sounds a like good advice for the next time.

Everyone should just be glad he was not hurt.

[gddyup]

I won't agree or disagree with what happened. He did what he thought was the correct course of action for the situation at the time. I may have done things different but who knows? My situation is different since I have an 85lb pure bred German Shephard with me when I go to check out things that go "bump in the night".

Kudos to you sir for taking action.

[perception]

wandered outside carefully with the dog

He took the dog with him too.

[Double Naught Spy]

You people are almost unbelievable. What a pathetic bunch of monday morning quarterbacking from a group of weekend commando wannabes.

+100 to kymasabe.

You protected your family. There is no more honorable duty required of a man. Thank goodness you, your wife, and your children are safe. I applaud you.

Let's see, we are Monday morning quarterbacking because a fellow law-abiding gun owner did several things wrong in the given situation and we would prefer to have our fellow law-abiding gun owners not make such blunders and get harmed or killed, or end up with their families harmed or killed.

leadcounsel is absolutely right in that the choices of going outside and only armed with a puny Kel-Tec .380 and a companion dog was far from the tactical or safe ideal. If folks are going to insist on going outside to investigate possible threats, then said folks should take a few extra moments (as it was not an emergency, at least not yet) and properly arm themselves.

kymasabe had a bigger gun that he could have taken outside, but he didn't decide to get that gun until AFTER checking outside and being safe and sound inside the house. He had spare mags for the Taurus, but apparently not for the Kel-Tec. He didn't take a flashlight or a phone. Heck, he didn't even bother calling the cops to report a possible attempted break-in when it happened.

Contrary to MRex21, kymasabe did not actually protect his family. He investigated a suspicious event, but the only protection that went on was by the deadbolt. If checking such events is considered to be protecting his family, then he did a less than adequate job by going outside poorly armed. Had he encountered the possible home invader(s) and gotten neutralized in the process, then just how much protection could he do?

One way in which home invaders can successfully gain entry into an occupied home is by doing something to draw the homeowner out of the house. Jiggling the doorknob very well could have been such an event. Other events include things like asking to use the phone, asking for help with a ficticious emergency, etc. As the door opens, the hopeful intruder(s) standing out of sight from the door's peephole, rush the door while it is still open.

Given how badly things can go wrong, the only reasons why this situation turned out so succesful was because the deadbolt worked and the potential intruders vacated kymasabe's property before he got outside and so there was no sort of confrontation.

One of the things I have learned through various training programs is that for most civilians, investigating attempted break-ins is best left to the cops. There is no reason to leave the safety of the interior of the home so long as all family members are safe inside. It is much easier to determine that everyone is safe inside and that no intrusions have been made into the home than it is to determine that everything is safe outside where the homeowner has little or no control.

Reporting an attempted break-in long after the event occurred does little or nothing to aid the police in tracking down the possible intruder(s).

Not calling the cops immediately after the attempted break-in was a mistake and was only reported AFTER the wife learned of other activity in the area. The significance of that mistake apparently was not realized at all. kymasabe witnessed a second suspicious event of seeing the guy run through the side yard and hop the fence and still he did not call the cops. He didn't even call the cops at that time even though he knew the cops were searching for suspects. It is only AFTER seeing the fence hopper does kymasabe decide that maybe he needed something a little more potent than the Kel-Tec and more ammo. It was only AFTER this event that he and his wife secured the kids and locked all the doors and windows. Why the doors and windows were not immediately locked after the attempted break-in is beyond me. In regard to the situation, it is a little late to be locking up when the apparent suspect is seen fleeing away. Of course, there could be others, but the time to lock up should have been immediately after the attempted entry (for those doors and windows not already locked).

[MRex21]

Thank you for making my point for me.

Any landing you can walk away from...

[Powderman]

Kymsabe, kudos to you for your willingness to confront something that threatened your family.

Now, if I may--as a friend, albeit only one you have met on the Net--offer some observations:

1. You did right by arming yourself. However, I would have chosen the biggest thumper I could have gotten my hands on.

2. Inside your home with the entrances secure and the family in with you in your sight is the safest place to be. That way, anyone wishing to gain entry has to come to you, like a fly to a spider's web. Remember this--when Chesty Puller (LTG, USMC) was on a hill in Korea during the Korean War, he was advised that he was surrounded. His reply was, "Those poor bastards. They're right where we want them--we can shoot in all directions."

3. Your biggest tactical error was opening your door and going outside, even with the dog. Why?

a. If we are on a call and we are advised that K9 is working, we get back into our patrol units post-haste, lock the doors and roll up the windows. Consider what would have happened if an off-leash K9 would have entered your yard at the same time you came outside.

b. Again, get your hands on the biggest gun you can carry, IF you have to invesgate a possible threat.

Now, here's the worst one. Think of this for the next time.

You said that the BG went through your side yard, and jumped the fence.

This means that while you were outside in your yard, SO WAS HE.

AT CLOSE RANGE.

WATCHING YOU.

Your door was open, your wife was inside, and you were away from the door.

Please, please don't think of this as a slam or criticism. You are one of the good guys. Please do NOT give scum like the one in your yard the chance to cause you harm. Work from your position of strength.

Good luck, and God bless!

Yours,

Powder(definitelynotaweekendwannabecommando)man

(Sorry, WA, I had to do it)

[PythonGuy]

Double Naught Spy is right on the money as usual, and Powderman's advice is equally good. Leaving your vantage point was a HUGE mistake, as was leaving yourself under gunned with the .380. Of course, with the situation calm and no threat from our perspective as we all think about it, its always easier then in the heat of the moment to be right. If we could be calm and rational at the time of stress, what genius's we'd all be, right? But you did survive and we've all learned from this so its all good for now. I think calling the police, getting your most effective weapon, and staying in a secure room with one entrance that you can defend, in that order, is a good strategy.

[tsavo]

Everyone here is assuming this guy was some sort of murderer rapist. For all we know it was a group of kids planning on putting toilet paper in the neighbors yard.

[RWK]

"Everyone here is assuming this guy was some sort of murderer rapist. For all we know it was a group of kids planning on putting toilet paper in the neighbors yard."

. . . in which case, you have done no harm by PREPARING to defend yourself and your family. And, by the way, TP'ing the neighbor's yard still constitutes the crimes of malicious mischief, trespassing, and so forth.

[us.armysniper]

If you guys think that is so horrible, I can't imagine what you would think about a react to contact drill!

[308Enfield]

I just want to offer a thank you to everybody who's posted such good information. Its good to see that these boards can have a healthy, informative debate about issues all of us are interested in. For what its worth, if I was making the move to a weapon inside and was reasonably sure that a potential threat was on the loose I'd tuck a pistol into my waistband as a backup and load the Mossburg Model 500 with 8 rounds of 00-buck for the primary. I think that might, just maybe, be even worse than an angry German Shepard

[Powderman]

Everyone here is assuming this guy was some sort of murderer rapist. For all we know it was a group of kids planning on putting toilet paper in the neighbors yard.

A valid point.....except for two things.

1. Kids or others who are toilet papering do not make a habit of trying out other people's doorknobs.

2. Toilet papering is usually not the type of thing that a police K9 will deploy for. IIRC, the original poster stated that K9 was running in the area.

[Malamute]

"Everyone here is assuming this guy was some sort of murderer rapist. For all we know it was a group of kids planning on putting toilet paper in the neighbors yard."


From this comment, is it safe to presume you would have assumed this was the case? To presume the best case scenario first, is to leave oneself open, without being prepared, to the worst case. It's easier to scale down your response or preparedness when justified, rather than try to scale up as needed. To try to "catch up" with a greater threat than you first anticipated puts you behind the curve, and there may not be an opportunity to catch up, particularly given the information we have already about this situation.

Regarding my comment on not being prepared in event things were more serious than first realized, many people don't keep a gun on them, within reach, or even loaded, when at home. Many of these people feel that OWNING a gun is enough, and it can be loaded when needed. If the bad guy had made entry into the house, from forgetting to lock the door after getting the paper, a kick-in, or whatever reason, once they are in, and you are not ready at that exact moment, the game is over, and you have lost.


Some good comments have been made regarding not going out to investigate, and calling the police right away, and at each event of the evening.

[Rob P.]

I believe 2 things need said here:

1) Kudo's to Kymasabe for being prepared to deal with a potential problem. His preparations may need some work, BUT he decided to do something instead of just sit and cry.

2) His action plan needs HELP not destructive bickering.

FWIW, going outside after you hear/believe/think someone tried to get in is the wrong thing to do. Think of it this way; Would you lower the drawbridge if you thought the enemy was gathering in front of your castle? Of course not. The same thing should apply to your front door.

Next, you should have alerted the PD as soon as you suspected someone tried to get in. Why? Because you may have been the first attempted victim and calling the PD could have prevented someone else from getting harmed down the road.

Motion sensor lights are absolutely a good thing. Even with big nasty dogs in your yard, lights help you (and the dog) find the BG faster.

You should sit down and plan the sequence of events you will follow should something like this happen again. Run those plans through your mind until you KNOW what you will do. If they involve others, then they should be included in a "disaster prep" practice until they also know what to do and when/why. Doing this will highlight areas of your defense that are weak and need "fixing".

[leadcounsel]

The direction of this dialogue also begs the question of whether it's necessary to be "armed" in your own house.

I am almost always armed or have instant access to a gun.

Regardless of the "why" of it, the sad state of affairs in America is that you generally should be armed or have nearly instant access to a weapon to defend yourself EVEN IN YOUR OWN HOUSE!

In this regard, everyone has overlooked the fact that kymasabe did TWO THINGS that he should be applauded for.

1. He has a habit of locking his front door with a deadbolt. This is the first line of defense. If the door was not locked, his family may have found a violent stranger in their home when this brazen criminal (who knows if the guy is an escaped convict from death row desperate for his freedom, a drug user desperate for a fix, or a murderer/rapist child molester wanting to do his family harm) tried to gain access. If the door was not locked, we can be assured that access would have been gained based on the door knob being jiggled, and 100% certain that a violent altercation would have followed. Due to his diligence, kymasabe avoided the confrontation by locking the door.

2. kymasabe also needs to be applauded for carrying his .380 with him at all times even in his castle. And why not? It's small and lightweight and adequate stopping power. IF the door was unlocked the chances are very very high that he would have called upon the .380 to save the lives of his family and himself.

So kymasabe, take heart in the fact that you did a few things that likely saved, or would have saved, your families lives. Just heed the advice of people here when they say to take a DEFENSIVE posture with you family safe and your biggest gun and call the police. In this situation, based on the K9s and seeing the burglar lurking outside, it was certainly warranted.

[nug_38]

I am happy to know that everything turned out safe. There were a few mistakes that kymasabe did that were already pointed out. Several valid suggestions were made to help correct them.

I enjoy reading actual situations where people were on their guard, or they had actual shooting/near shooting encounters. I like them better than "what if" scenarios. Like "what ifs" they make you think of what you would do during the episode, but they provide you one persons actual response. You can always learn from that and prepare for similar confrontations.

Hopefully kymasabe is better prepared today than he was yesterday. I do hope that as a result of his experiences, we are better predared as well.

[michael t]

A real man would have went to fridge got another beer. Gave wife 380 and told her to go out and check. That you were watching TV and this is what she had been trained for. My 45 would have stayed with me in case he/they got by roving partol.. I hate being bothered in middle of a good show.

Did he do every thing right ,no Are they alive yes. Were I live I go out and check. State police might get their in 30 min. So I take my coach gun and 45 and start outside check of house, barn and other buildings. .