New reloader need advice

[Gnoel]

Hey guys!
New to reloading, and looking for advice on a load. I'm getting set to load 9mm 115gr lrn, I have Power Pistol and I'm having trouble finding a recipe for this combo. Any thoughts?
Thanks!!!!

[Whisper 300]

Gnoel,

I am sure I will not be the last of many to say-and I mean it with all due respect--get a reloading manual or 3 and read it cover to cover - twice.

Please do not rely solely on an internet site or friends memory-it is your hands connected to the pistol and maybe me at the range next to you if things go Kablooey!

Since you said you are a newbie you need more than someone dishing out advice over the net.

Perhaps there is someone where you shoot who reloads and would mentor you? I have done this repeatedly and enjoy passing along what little I learned over 50 years of reloading and shooting.

In any case, good luck and get a manual.

Respectfully,

Gary

[Jim243]

Lyman's books are pretty good for information on cast bullet loads. Not sure your bullets are 115 grains since that weight is found in Jacketed bullets nor cast lead. Generally the cast lead bullets will be 120 grains.

You can use the 120 grain cast round nose bullet information for your loads since they will be safe for the (?) 115 grain cast lead bullets as well.

As always start at minimum load and work your way up, checking for pressure.

Good Luck.
Jim

[Forrest68]

Every time some asks a question like this the assumption , automaticaly is they havent looked at a manual . Well I have 3 manuals and not a single one has data for 115gr lrn bullets(for power pistol). Maybe like Jim243 you could suggest that 120gr lrn data would be a starting point. Which is oh I dont know would actually helpful information to someone starten out and maybe a little leary of assumen anythign yet.

[Tom68]

Then again, quite frequently the reason there is no published data for a particular bullet and a particular powder in a give caliber is because it's been tried by reputable labs and found to be inferior in either accuracy and/or velocity, or some other reason. I'm not saying that's the case here... But I've seen those types of questions posed before and met with that kind of answer.

Of course, that is the result that THAT lab got in THEIR test gun under LAB conditions. Real world results may vary, and someone else may derive a completely different outcome experimenting on their own....but at their own risk. I see and hear it all the time...stick to load data published from known and reputable sources (the best being powder and bullet manufacturers....whether in print or digital format). Without access to pizoelectric (sp?) or copper crushing methods of measuring chamber pressure....well, definitely not territory for a new reloader.

[Gnoel]

Thanks for the input guys! I have went through multiple manuals- including the Lyman's. That was sound advice from you right there. I maybe should rephrase now, if I'm not finding the information readily- where is a good source?

[bt380]

I'd read the Lee 2nd edition first as it is a bit shorter than the Lyman. Then read the Lyman 49th. When finished with those two, then the Hornady 9th edition. The Hornady is a bit light reading in the front of the book but does a nice over view of each caliber when you look at the load data for a specific bullet. I don't do much rifle loads so some one else can speak to the better rifle manuals. Berger might be one but I haven't read it.
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There is a nice overview of OAL on this forum. You'll want to look it them cause the manuals will show differently an leave you hanging in the breeze. There are also forum recommendations for techniques on how to do this:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=533746
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=407195
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Until you get bored with it, verify everything you read on the forum against the manuals or the powder companies, etc. You will weed thru the material and save what you like. Lots of experience on the forums but some times the typing leaves out a sentence that makes a big difference. I am guilty of that myself at times. By the time the brain cell fires and gets to the finer tips, the keyboard must do some kind of auto delete or something.
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Great hobby, take your time to enjoy it.

[GJSchulze]

Send an email to Alliant with your specs and they will send you the load data.

[Gnoel]

Lots of great advice! I've been easing in and working with my son! It's very fulfilling so far and a great way to spend time together!

[Nick_C_S]

All I can add is that 115g bullets tend to lead up the barrel. And pushing them with Power Pistol will only exacerbate the problem. Power Pistol likes to be loaded up to yield pretty good velocities. It's a recipe for leading. 9mm is prone to leading to begin with. But the combination you have is going to be problematic.

I would go with a mild loading of a faster powder (like W231 or AA2) with those LRN's - if you have any. I know powders are hard to get right now. I'd save the Power Pistol for jacketed bullets - where it can really send 'em flyin'. Power Pistol is good at making bullets go fast.

[JustSomeGuy]

Leading is generally related to bullet size more than bullet hardness, speed, or caliber. The lead bullet should be at least .001 larger than bore size to limit or eliminate leading issues.

That said, powder selection is also important to limit leading, especially in lighter for the caliber bullets, the 115grn 9mm bullet included. Hotter powders will leave more leading than cooler burning ones in a given caliber. Power Pistol is on the hot side, and flashy to boot, Silhouette and True Blue are among the coolest. I don't know what velocity you are going for, but in an auto pistol the first thing you have to do is "run the gun"... that is the slide has to receive enough recoil energy to get a full stroke and load a new round upon firing. With 115grn bullets this generally means about 1100fps minimum. You can go faster, but not much lower without modifying the gun (spring rates and such), and with short barreled guns it may be higher. With Power Pistol I don't know of a load range for 115grn bullets, but I'm sure someone has one... but it is most likely a lot faster than 1100fps (I'm betting over 1200fps and up...) and not with lead bullets. There are perhaps better powder choices for your bullet choice. Hopefully you will be able to find some.

[GJSchulze]

9mm is prone to leading to begin with

Nick, I just don't understand that. I don't use lead bullets, but why would a particular caliber be more prone to leading than any other?

I was going to ask the same question about 115gr bullets, but I suppose that's because of their speed?

[Jim243]

GJ

Lead bullet are much softer than their jacketed counter parts. And therefor subjected to heat more. General rule is to keep lead bullets under 1,100 fps. Since speeds for 9 mm is higher than 1,100 fps it is subject to more friction and imparting more lead in the barrel. This can be overcome by using gas checks on the bullet or harder lead ( more tin or zinc) that will wear on your rifling more.

It is a trade off.

Jim

[Nick_C_S]

General rule is to keep lead bullets under 1,100 fps. Since speeds for 9 mm is higher than 1,100 fps it is subject to more friction and imparting more lead in the barrel.

Granted, there are a lot of dynamics going on that causes barrel leading. We all know it's not as simple as "1100fps" - it was indeed prefaced as a "general rule." But the point remains: the higher the velocity, the more all the other factors have to be perfect, in order to avoid a leading problem.

9mm's tend to lead and that's a fact. Same with 40 S&W. You can shoot lead, but you have to keep them very mild. I do load a 147g LFP with 5.0g HS-6 that doesn't seem to lead up (notice I use a heavy slug to keep velocities down). But even at that, I'll still put a mag of jacketed bullets through the gun after every 3 or 4 mags of the LFP's - just to eliminate any buildup.

[tly999]

This link does not answer your load data question but it has good caveats about loading 9mm.

"For instance, in Speer Reloading Manual #11 I found that with 9mm handloads of 28,000 CUP (Copper Units of Pressure), should you seat the bullet only .030" deeper into the cartridge case, the pressures jump to 62,000 CUP!! Enough to wreck a good gun. I got the idea from this that the 9mm can be touchy to reload and that careful attention to detail (such as over-all loaded length) is very important."

http://www.lasc.us/TaylorSecrets9mm.htm

Good luck.

[Nick_C_S]

This link doesn't answer the load data question because the bullet/powder combo is so awkward as to be discouraged from loading.

[Nick_C_S]

Nick, I just don't understand that. I don't use lead bullets, but why would a particular caliber be more prone to leading than any other?

I was going to ask the same question about 115gr bullets, but I suppose that's because of their speed?

9mm is - for the sake of this discussion - a high pressure round. The use of lead at high pressures is the primary cause of leading; that, and sheer velocity. Yes, there's bullet fit, hot powders vs cool powders, yadda yadda yadda - that's all ancillary stuff.

Lead can be used fairly freely in 38 Special (and its older siblings), 44 Special (and its older siblings), 45 ACP, and 45 Colt, because they are low pressure rounds. In fact, some of the most accurate rounds with these cartridges are indeed lead.

And regarding the 115g bullets - we've both already touched upon it: velocity. All things being equal: lighter bullet = higher velocity. If you could magically push a bullet through a barrel with no propellant, at some point, sheer friction would cause leading.

Velocity and pressure. And the 115g 9mm has enough of both to be inherently problematic with leading.

[wncchester]

No special loads are needed for any particular point configurations; RN, SWC, flat or spiral, all that matters is the weight. And seating depth is ONLY critical in hot loaded 9&10mm and .40 auto handgun gartridges. Only they have quirky tiny cases with very fast powders loaded to quite high pressures and have bullets seated at or into the lands to start with.

I've not found leading to be any more problem in a 9mm Mod 92 than anything else I shoot and that includes .45 ACP, .38/.357 and .44 mags, all loaded at normal max speeds. Full power medium and heavy bullets can be slightly undersized because they will upset and fully obturate the bores no matter how hard the alloy is.

BUT, hard cast light weight bullets must be full bore size (or a thou larger) because light bullets don't always set back under initial accelleration and any gas cutting will lead foul a bore NOW! Any over size bullet will become bore size as soon as it enters its own length so using larger bullets simply makes the bore do the sizing. Few bores do that as well as a conventional sizer.

A major contributor to leading is the bullet lube. A lot of lubes work fine at low to mid velocities but I've never felt anything can beat the old NRA 50:50 beeswax/alox lube formula and few are it's equal. My very hard cast hand gun speeds match jacketed velocities with little or no leading and nearly unbelievable accuracy.

In my good vision youth, I plinked beer cans at 60-80 yards with Lyman 240 SWC sized .429" (with and without gas checks) at 1,450fps out of my early Md. 29 6" Smith. And with .358" sized 150 SWC bullets fired at about the same speed from my wife's Blackhawk (it was more difficult to make hits with the single action due to it's slower lock time.) Any light smears of lead wiped out with a couple-three swipes with a bore brush and Hoppe's.