Proposed Mag Ban: "Large Capacity Ammunition Feeding Device Act"

[Tom Servo]

It doesn’t matter whether anybody needs a large cap mags.

Just a quick deviation: I should never have to prove to anyone, least of all the government, why I need to own anything. I should be allowed to acquire all the private property I want, so long as I'm not infringing on anyone's rights in the process.

Now, possession of a numbered magazine after the law went into effect would be proof of a crime. And what a crime! TEN YEARS in prison for owning a spring loaded metal box larger than what the govt allows!

I agree with the utter absurdity of the bill as written. If we want to discuss what a bit of lunacy it is, that's fine. But please relax folks. I can tell you with 100% certainty that this thing isn't going to pass.

[gc70]

This new version would allow ownership, but not sale or transfer of the banned hi-cap mags.

This is very insidious.

One obvious issue would be how a person would defend ownership of standard-capacity magazines for a gun purchased after the effective date of a ban. This would have a pronounced effect on young shooters. As an example, after such a ban had been in place for five years, no non-LEO under age 27 could offer an explanation for having a standard-capacity magazine.

Another issue would involve people who own lots of magazines. If you had a Beretta and 20 standard-capacity magazines, it would involve a substantial monetary loss to sell the Beretta and scrap the magazines to buy a Sig.

Finally, out-of-production guns would present a special problem. Who would want to buy an out-of-production gun without magazines and with no ready source for new, legal 10-round magazines?

The old AWB also included a requirement that new made hi-cap mags have the mfg date on them. So a LEO could tell the difference between a mag made before the ban (no date) and one after (dated). I see in the draft proposal that new large capacity (> 10 rnds) would be serial #.

The 1994 AWB also contained a serial number requirement (see top of page 205 of PDF file). I checked some of my ban-period LEO magazines and they do have a serial number (per 27 CFR 478.92(c)(1), a manufacturer could use a single serial number for all magazines it produced).

[gc70]

I do not believe the type of ban proposed by McCarthy has any prospect of being passed ... at this time.

I do think it is important for gun owners to fully understand what type of restrictions the anti-gun crowd would like to impose on us. They may not make any headway now, but they will continue to try. McCarthy's proposal is subtly different from similar provisions of the 1994 AWB, but those subtle differences are very bad. In short, the anti-gun crowd is learning.

I also think it is important for potential gun restrictions to be discussed by gun owners. I have been quite surprised by the number of gun owners who still appear willing to sacrifice the interests of other gun owners, as long as they are not personally impacted. I would have thought that if the gun community learned nothing else from the 1994 AWB, it was that we need to stand together.

[egor20]

44 AMP
This new version would allow ownership, but not sale or transfer of the banned hi-cap mags. Fine if you already own as many as you might want, but not so good if you don't and might want to get one. Also leaves dealers and manufacturers with huge stocks of magazines that cannot be sold to the public.

OK, I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV.

Wouldn't that be a violation of Interstate Commerce Law, ie: I live in Virginia and perhaps I wish to purchase a 31 round magazine from say, Wildalaska?

"According to 18 USCS § 921 the term "interstate or foreign commerce" includes commerce between any place in a State and any place outside of that State, or within any possession of the United States (not including the Canal Zone) or the District of Columbia, but such term does not include commerce between places within the same State but through any place outside of that State. The term "State" includes the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and the possessions of the United States (not including the Canal Zone)."

Would her bill have to include an exemption from 18 USCS § 921?

[langenc]

The same folks the think that x rounds are plenty and the same ones that dont belong to the NRA cause they send out too many money letters.

[kenno]

I sold all my guns and mags 2 weeks ago

[silvercorvette]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriot86
I sent an E mail to Robert Dold urging him to oppose this bill unless the maximum magazine capacity is raised to 20 rounds.
So you wrote your Congressman in favor of a ban that would throw everyone with 20+ mags under the bus ... since it would not affect you?

It never fails to amaze me how we are our own worst enemies. So it does not matter to you because you won't be effected, but who will be left to help you when they do propose a law that will effect you?

======================================


They came first for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

[silvercorvette]

Ask yourself honestly, who needs a 32 round pistol Magazine? I have seen numerous posts on this site about them and how they are basically just flash. Yes it is another restriction but how many of you have 32 round glock magazines? Like I have said before, I am pro 2A and no legislation would be best but if it had to be at least let it be reasonable.


I only of only 1 pistol offhand that shoots more than 20 rounds as a standard that would be one of those Military grade glocks, dont remember exactly which one.

The SIG P-226 TAC OPS 9MM shoots 20, the Glock 17, almost every sig, H&K, Springfield, CA and the like have capacities ranging from 12-17 rounds.

The real question is how can you make a rational argument for having 32 round pistol magazines? the only defense beyond siting the 2A has been "common use" 32 round mags are far from common use. The issue about the no transfer is also BS, I included that as well as being a no no.


PS only 15+ would effect me.

You fail to understand that the people that want to take away our guns know they can't do it all at once so they chip away taking a little bit at a time till one morning you will wake up to find they the only legal guns are black powder muzzle loaders

By the way not only do I own a full auto Uzi with 32 round magazines, I also own a full auto Thompson with a 50 round mag, and a full auto M-16 with a 100 round magazine

[kenno]

I've been listening carefully to the Commies (OOps Liberals ) and thier anti- 2nd Amendment laws for 48 years.
Think about that, 48 years. Thier tactics have never changed. In the 1960's Liberals pushed for the release of Physcotropic drugs, then push for the federal funding of same. Millions become addicted to those drugs and then funding is cut, some patients are told that they cannot recieve more drugs unless "Thier condition worsens"
The first spontainious school shootings occure in California, the shooters are addicted to prescribed psycotropic drugs.
That was in the 1970s after the Kennedy shooting death had inspired a ban on non-FFL retail gun transfers.
Look at California now, it's a police state, with fewer police, meaning law abidding PPL must now break the law to defend themselves from gangs the police will not persue, the courts will not convict. And what about these gangs that shoot-up entire neighborhoods, are they selling ice-cream? No, drugs!
Just like in Chicago, the most corrupt, crime ridden city in America, drugs, gangs, anti-citizen laws, reduced law enforcement, more crime, more anti-citizen laws. Chaos! POLICE STATE!
I see a pattern.

[8shot357]

I'd be ok using 10 round mags, but I carry a 16 round mag with 16 rounds, because I can. But TBS, I don't have any 30+ round mags because I feel I don't really need them, but that's just me.

[Single Six]

Well, if I may put this grim subject aside momentarily...from now on, I wanna hang out at SilverCorvette's place!

[Logs]

I use the 30 rd glock mags for my Keltec Sub2K to shoot bowling pins on a private farm. Why, because I can.

What if this idiot in AZ used a pump shotgun with 6 or 8 rounds of buck shot??? Could have had the same result so we should be looking at banning shotguns?

I was watching MSNBC and they were going after the argument of if someone would have had the carry permit and was packing they probably would have missed the attacker. We will never know, but "unarmed" people took the idiot down, I would have thought someone packing could have ended it sooner.

Banning magazines is stupid. Look how many are out there already and now they are selling like hotcakes.

[silvercorvette]

I wanna hang out at SilverCorvette's place!

Maybe I will be driving past your area, if you are anywhere between SC and AZ I'll be driving to AZ this spring to visit a childhood buddy, I have known him since I was about 7 or 8 years old when I lived in NY, he moved to AZ after he got out of the air force and the last time I saw him was in the 1980's so I am looking forward to visiting him and will be bringing my guns with me to shoot with my bud.

This cold weather has been kicking my butt and has my arthritis acting up. I just bought another progressive reloading press with bullet and case feeder (still waiting for the case and bullet feeder they are on back order) so I can feed my guns less expensively, I want to load up a few thousand rounds of ammo to bring with me for the trip.

[silvercorvette]

Patriot86

Have you ever herd of the term divide and conquer?

[dlb435]

I'm not worried about this. There seems to be little traction for the idea in Washington.
I've been following the debate on how to keep guns out of the hands of the insane. There aren't many good ideas about this. No one seems to know how we can identify these people and keep them from harming themselves or others.

[publius42]

dlb, that issue is hard to resolve, and changes over time. I have a high school friend who has been very sane, normal, and smart for almost all of his life, even did law review at Cornell, and is now a nice preacher man. There were a few weeks, separated by an interval of years, during which he definitely fell into the "brain not working right = can't have a gun" category by any reasonable definition. I was present before, during and after the first one and during the second one. Long story, but the point is that about a week before each episode, anyone would swear he was normal, just as they would today.

He was not violent, but sure as heck was not rational. I really do not believe that government can come along and catch these people at the critical moment, and then there is the problem of restoration of rights once sanity is restored. How long is long enough? How sane is sane enough? If you're the guy making that call, the "safe" thing to do will always be to deny restoration.

[Single Six]

I just got back from the gun show a few minutes ago...thought I'd relate this story: While standing at a dealer's table, a guy next to me asked the dealer if he had any more high-capacity factory Glock mags for a G17. The dealer replied, "Nope. Sold out of those earlier today." The customer was visibly dismayed, and asked him, "How did THAT happen?!" The dealer replied: "After the thing in Arizona, people are starting to panic." Now, I hasten to add that this was an exchange between one dealer and one customer, and a single overheard conversation don't necessarily make it so, but still....if enough people think the worst is coming, the price gouging may resume soon. For what it's worth, I managed to score three Ruger factory 15 rounders for $26.00 each. P.S.: Silvercorvette: I'm not on your route, but enjoy that very long trip you'll be taking soon. Hope it's quick but safe!

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Cabela's today had a full display of the 30 ish Glock mags for $44.99. Didn't see the UN outside waiting to seize them.

I was buying a six gun because I'm so PC.

[Tom Servo]

Didn't see the UN outside waiting to seize them.

That's because of the invisibility helmets provided by ZOG.

[gc70]

Originally Posted by Glenn E. Meyer

I was buying a six gun because I'm so PC.

Me too, and I was even more PC because mine was a .22 six gun.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Morning news shows' panel of experts - ahem - all think there will be no new gun legislation. The potential of such and the threat of such are good fund raising PR paradigms. One news reporter asked the VPC guy if he was using Tucson by sending out a fund raising letter so quick.

On the other hand, I did get e-mails to buy hicaps before the Elders come for my gun in the UN heliocopters.

A more serious issue is what we do for the mentally ill in this country. I see the debate turn towards that as most will realize that care and prevention are more useful things to discuss.

[CobraCommander]

The potential of such and the threat of such are good fund raising PR paradigms.

Maybe they all own shares of Glock?

The calls for reinstating the AWB (from the usual suspects) are not unique to this. They are always clamoring for a new AWB.

[Webleymkv]

Anyhow, I've got a question for everyone. Being that the incident in AZ targeted a member of congress do you think it will spark more chance of them passing this? Say the usual republican, pro gun people specifically. My biggest fear is they'll skip trying to keep us gun folk happy and just push through a law to 'protect' themselves.

No, I don't. Pro-gun Republicans (and pro-gun Democrats for that matter) are usually put where they are by pro-gun voters. If they displease the pro-gun voters with such a draconian law, then the pro-gun voters will in all liklihood vote them out and they will lose a great deal of their protection.

Other than the usual suspects like McCarthy, Rush, Boxer, Feinstein, Schumer, Bloomberg, and Daley, I don't think gun control is a priority for anyone right now due in large part to the fact that it's been a toxic issue since 1994. Honestly, the VT shooting would've probably been a better time to take up the issue as there would've probably been more to gain from it (the AWB hadn't been expired as long and it could have been used as ammunition for the election that wasn't all that far away).

No, I think that the AZ shooting probably holds more value to the politicians who favor gun control as a way to point fingers at their opponents and critics and as a way to distract the public from other controversial issues like repeal of the healthcare law.

Like I said in the post-election panic of '08-09, we need to remain vigilant but I don't think it's time to go into full-on panic mode yet. Unfortunately, I think that some "in the industry" may be fanning the flames of panic for their own profits. I went to the Indy 1500 gun show on Friday and it was packed. I overheard more than one vendor advising customers to stock up before the ban (just like I heard them saying two years ago). My biggest fear in all of this is that the panic within the community will lead to the same type of price-gouging and hoarding we saw two years ago, although luckily I've got a long memory and have pretty much quit doing business with the gougers.

[armoredman]

Silvercorvette, if you come a few miles south of Phoenix, we have a nifty free outdoor public range just south of Casa Grande.

Ultimate end of slippery slope,

Ask yourself honestly, tovarisch, who needs a representative democracy? Just let Dear Leader tell you what to do, think and say, and all will be well, yes?"

I also agree this bill has about .05% percentage chance of passing, but I will still call and e-mail my congresscritters, so they know we're watching, even on the so-called "sure thing" bills.

[silvercorvette]

P.S.: Silvercorvette: I'm not on your route, but enjoy that very long trip you'll be taking soon. Hope it's quick but safe!

It won't be a quick trip, I am retired and last year I got rid of my 30 to 35 MPG hybrid to buy a 12 to 15 MPG Dodge crew cab dually diesel. I bought a slide on camper loaded with microwave A/C, generator stove oven TV refrigerator toilet with stand in shower. I have two dogs that go everywhere with me. Traveling with a camper allows me the ability to pull over and take a nap if I am tired. I have done a lot of long distance driving in the past and the were times in the middle of the afternoon when I was sleepy and only needed to shut my eyes for an hour or two but had to pay for a full night in a motel. I could have bought a pull behind for less money but this is easier to park and drive

I am planning on doing the trip sometime in April or May and once I am sure I will have to fill out the form that is required by the BATF to travel with full auto guns. I also have a cousin that lives in Utah that I haven't seen in over 40 years that I may also visit.

The last time I did this was in the early 1980s in a small pull behind camper that had a toilet shower oven fridge and stove, but it didn't have all the cool stuff this one does. Traveling cross country back in the 80s was something I have fond memories of and I am looking forward to doing it again

Silvercorvette, if you come a few miles south of Phoenix, we have a nifty free outdoor public range just south of Casa Grande

I also hope to drive up north and meet with someone I know from another forum that is near the Dillon factory.