case guage?

[chips]

Hello there fellow reloaders I am new to reloading I have been reloading 9mm and now getting into 223. I have two questions I Have been able to find bits and pieces of my answer but so far what I have read the opinion verys extremely. First question is do I need a case gauge and head space gauge for reloading 223 and 9mm? My second question is do i need the go no go gauge or the type that rcbs sells the precision mic? All my shooting is mainly at soda cans so I'm not looking for extreme accuracy. Just want the rounds to be feeding in the gun properly.

[hartcreek]

No you do not need a case gage if you have a good digital caliper.

Yes I know that not all calipers are digital....I am that old but the OP is a newbie and figuring out slide rule like marks is for us old folks that can still see if we want to.

[tangolima]

If you are manufacturing ammunition that need to meet certain specifications, you will need the gauges. If you are hand loading for you own guns, you don't.

Second thought; yes, you do, so that you can tell folks you have all the cool gauges, and the rounds you load are saami compliant.

-TL

[hartcreek]

My reloading books give the saami speck and there is even a picture with the measurements in the right places. Iffn yah can read and follow the pictures and can read a digital caliper then you dont need the gages.

Iffn yah cant read n follow the pictures then you had better get the gages.

[higgite]

If you don't have a case gauge of some sort for bottle neck cases, how will you know if the shoulder is set back too far or not? It's also a lot faster to run sized cases through a case gauge to see at a glance if they need trimming than it is to measure each case with calipers. I wouldn't be without one. ymmv

[hartcreek]

It is real simple to measure the shoulders and once you get the sizer set up all the shoulders will be right. Then once you have the shoulders you set the caliper for the case length that you want and attempt to slide the case through the caliper. If you are using a gage then you could have the shoulders right and the case would not fit through the gage so you still wind up measuring anyhow.

[chips]

Thank you for your replies I have the digital caliper and do understand how it works also i read the Speers manual from cover to cover. I figured I could just use the caliper but wanted to be sure. Thank you

[Smoke & Recoil]

Hey there Chips,

A caliper...digital or analog works mostly for measuring over-all-length, such
as, loading bullets with no canaluar (spelling), the damn crimp ring around
the bullet.

Hey, how do ya spell that word anyway ?...(canaluar)

[higgite]

Originally Posted by hartcreek

It is real simple to measure the shoulders and once you get the sizer set up all the shoulders will be right. Then once you have the shoulders you set the caliper for the case length that you want and attempt to slide the case through the caliper. If you are using a gage then you could have the shoulders right and the case would not fit through the gage so you still wind up measuring anyhow.

hartcreek,

How do you measure the case shoulder to see if it is in spec? And if you have resized the case, why would it not fit a gauge? I'm talking about this type of case gauge.


After you resize a case, drop it in the gauge and see if it is within upper and lower limits for headspace dimension and adjust your sizing die accordingly. You can also use it to check whether cases need trimming or not. I don't see how you can accurately measure the shoulder dimension with just calipers with any consistency from case to case.

Could be that you're talking about sizing for a bolt gun and using the rifle chamber to check for acceptable shoulder setback, and I'm talking about sizing for a semi-auto. OP didn't say what rifle he is loading for.

[Nathan]

You don't need gages to reload. They do help you setup more precisely and inspect loaded rounds better.

The basic method of setting your FL die to touch the case holder firmly and seating bullets to a prescribed OAL should get you real close.

On the other hand, if your rifles fall out side of this normal methods, it will be a real pain in the butt!

The loaded round check gage is supposed to be made to SAAMI min. If your rounds fit in it, they should fit in anything. So, that is the message. Do you need that? You decide. I say no, unless you are loading for several guns of the same caliber.

The headspace(case side) gage tells you the case shoulder to case base dimension. Again, this can be used to determine if the case will fit in the gun. Putting the case in the gun will do that also. My experience tells me that this is useful because FL sizing has variation and you need to setup so 100% of your cases will be under your magic number(fired - .003" for AR). The thing is. . . .many cases longer than fired will still feed. Some won't. All cases sized fired - 0.003" will fit. Get my point. The gage helps, but no gage can be pretty trouble free.

The OAL gage (gun side) This tells you your max OAL in a particular gun. Good info, if you want one gun to shoot lights out(accuracy). . .and the chamber and mags allow this it to chamber. . .Many, most do not in semi autos. Some do. It depends on bullet, chamber and mag.

So, for 9mm, I would just load them up and measure 10 random from your lot to determine how they were loaded. I would measure Case Length(before and after FL sizing), OAL, crimp diameter, max loaded case diameter(below the crimp), unloaded case diameter below the flare. . . That is good data for 9mm. You will know if your CL and OAL are in spec. You will know how much bullet seating expanded the case and your final crimp.

For 223(I'm guessing AR), I would screw the FL die down: Just follow this.

Load to mag length OAL. . .2.25" Check OAL by sooting the bullet and loading it. should not touch.

[Greg Mercurio]

You don't really need one but if YOU think it will help, get one. I've only been reloading since 1970 and never used one, can't see any reason to buy one.

Calipers will actually measure MOST things quite accurately, if you understand their limitations. Unless you are adept with Vernier scales, stick with dial or digital.

It's spelled cannelure.


cannelure
[kan-l-oo r]

noun
1. a groove or fluting around the cylindrical part of a bullet.
2. any groove or fluting on a cylinderlike object.

[Smoke & Recoil]

CANNELURE.......got it, thank you.

[jetinteriorguy]

For me I like the Wilson gauges for .223 and for 9mm since I shoot them more in bulk and the gauges save me a lot of time checking my brass. For my .38/.357 and my .41 Mag it's not as big a deal.

[tangolima]

Originally Posted by higgite

hartcreek,

Could be that you're talking about sizing for a bolt gun and using the rifle chamber to check for acceptable shoulder setback, and I'm talking about sizing for a semi-auto. OP didn't say what rifle he is loading for.

Same principle applies to bolt, semi auto, or full auto. You only have to do it once. It guarantees the rounds you load will fit your rifle perfectly. Whether it meets saami specs doesn't mean a thing as long as it fits your gun. That's the advantage of hand loading for your own gun.

I load for all my guns, most of them are military surplus, bolt and semi auto. Easily 20 loads or more out of each brass. Bought a 30-06 gauge, similar to the one in your picture, when I first started hand loading. Almost never have used it. It doesn't work as almost all my guns are out of specs.

-TL

[F. Guffey]

A good press with threads, a die with threads and a good understanding of the incline plane. And the feeler gage. It helps if the reloader has a few shop skills and tools.

F. Guffey

[codefour]

I read a lot of your posts and agree with a lot of what you say. This is in no way meant to be a negative post. I have been reloading for five plus or minus years. I have read your posts regarding using a feeler gage. Where and how do you use a feeler gage for case measuring. I am a little confused.

I do not understand where a feeler gage could be used. Can you please explain this, maybe a tutorial?

To the OP, case gages make life a lot simpler. You can spend a lot of time measuring all he datum points (PITA). Simpler, you can slide your recently sized case into the case gage. If it is between the indicator marks you are good to go. If the case is above the highest mark, screw your die in a quarter turn and try again. If the case is over sized, it will go too low. If you load for multiple rifles, case gages are cheap, 20-25 dollars each. Cheap insurance in my book.

[Bart B.]

If one's objectives include getting the most case life and accuracy with bottleneck cases, then a gauge to measure case headspace (head to shoulder reference) is essential. Proper use of one lets you know how far back the fired case shoulder is bumped. Too little is OK but some rounds may not chamber easily. Too much, which is normal with most full length sizing die instructions followed, sets the shoulder back way too far and head separation starts as well as accuracy suffers. This is when a case gauge such as the RCBS Precision Mic or Hornady LNL case headspace gauge is handy. Then you can measure a fired case headspace then again after full length sizing it to see how much it's been bumped back. .002" is about right for bolt action rifles, .003' or .004" is about right for semiautos, pump and lever action rifles.

A standard caliper can measure case length (head to mouth) accurate enough; no special gauge is necessary for this.

Drop in case/cartridge gauges do not have chamber dimensions and gauging points like your rifle does. Which is why it's important to have the tools and know how to measure your fired and resized cases that are used in your rifle chambers. Comparitively speaking, drop in case/cartridge gauges are sloppy in measurements; good case gauges measuring in thousandths are precise.

How good do you want your reloads to be?

[chips]

Thanks for the posts I just need it to chamber in both my ARs. Sorry for the very bare question didn't post a hole lot of info I have a rem 223 and another one in 5.56 can't remember brand off the top of my head but the chamber says nato 5.56.

[Unclenick]

5.56 Chambers or often a little more generous and have a longer freebore than the 223, but the brass used in them has the same dimensions.

[F. Guffey]

I do not understand where a feeler gage could be used. Can you please explain this, maybe a tutorial?

codefour, The case gage is a datum base tool. I make datum based tools, to make a datum base tool I drill a hole that is perpendicular/90 degree to the plate/flat surface. there are improvements/modifications that can be made to the basic round hole/datum, problem, I do not believe I will live long enough to discuss the advantages.

The datum based Wilson case gage has a datum with a radius, that is nothing for a reloader to worry about. The datum needs to be understood as a 'measure from the datum', problem, the Wilson case gage appears to be an opened ended gage by most reloaders. They refer to the Wilson case gage as a drop-in gage. Wilson, from the beginning suggested using a straight edge across the case head, they also included in their instructions where a reloader could find a straight edge. Wilson suggested using the pocket rule as a straight edge. For me is was a small leap from guessing the width of the gap to measuring the gap with a feeler gage. I also use a flat surface as when standing the case up and placing the gage over the case, when the case protrudes from the case gage the cas3e supports the gage above the flat surface. I measure the gap between the flat surface to the bottom of the gage 9again) with a feeler gage. Knowing if the case was flat with the surface of the gage the case would be equal to the length of a go gage length case.

I do not measure head space of the case because my cases do not have head space. I measure the length of the case from the datum to the head of the case. the most common datum diameter/round hole is 3/8"/.357". Then there is .400". When comparing my cases to my chambers I can make up datums. I have said I collect datums, I make datums and on occasions I purchase datums, the purchased datumws I use are almost always a tool that is designed for something else and used for a datum.

F. Guffey

good case gauges measuring in thousandths are precise.

Precision? Drop-in? The difference when measuring precision measurements depends on the ability of the reloader.