Don't trust rentals

[Doc Holliday 1950]

My Wife & I went to one of three GS's in our area to buy either a Glock 26 or the 43 for her(me too) to see which one she wanted. The GS that we went to is a ultra modern well lit GS & Range & this is where we went to take our Carry classes for Florida residents after we moved to Fl.
She tried the 43 & had a heck of a time racking it. The target was 8 feet away and she missed the target with all 6 shots. I then reloaded the 43 and shot the same target & hit it once down and outside the corner of the target at 5 o'clock.
Okay, I said let's try the 26. Loaded 6 rounds(I know it holds 10) & almost the same darn thing happened. Discouraged, we took the rentals back to the front desk & gave back the 2 Glocks, paid for the rentals & their ammo(not able to use our own) & went home. Blew a quick $98.00 for our troubles.
We both are pretty decent shooters & couldn't understand how we shot so badly.
Anyone out there have any ideas as to why this happened??
Forgot to add that I took out my Glock 19 and put 6 shots in a 2" group dead center just to make sure it wasn't our bad shooting.

[DnPRK]

Crappy gun store reloads?

Badly leaded barrel?

Rear sight shifted in the dovetail?

One of the 4 frame rails is broken?

There are lots of possible causes.

[Bamashooter]

I would say that there is an issue with their guns somewhere. My 43 is very accurate and has been from the get go. I wouldnt base my opinion on either glock on the lack of accuracy you experienced with the rental guns.

[JoeSixpack]

I had a similar experience with my hi-point c9 out of the box (sights horribly off).. but I think was shooting at 15ft.

was barely hitting the edge of paper.. when you run into a situation like that ignore sights and just point.

[TunnelRat]

I'm not sure the size of your target and no offense meant, but even a smoothbore pistol shooting lead balls would land a hit at 8 ft. If there was a mechanical issue it should have been pretty dramatic and obvious.

[IMightBeWrong]

Being unable to shoot the guns myself, it's hard for me to say it's both of the guns. Just because you can group with your 19 doesn't mean your fundamentals are solid enough to shoot any gun well. Can you name your shooting fundamentals? Do you know how to surprise break the trigger? Since I don't know where you're at as a shooter, I can only assume that it's a fundamental issue rather than 2 different guns having problems. Not an insult or anything, just make sure you learn the above. Know your fundamentals, the difference between fundamentals and techniques, and learn the surprise break if you haven't trained that way already.

[NateKirk]

Are you sure it's not user error?

[ShootistPRS]

I would bet money that it wasn't user error. I coach women who have never held a gun at our "Women on Target" events and at 10 feet they have great fun hitting the targets and get really excited when one round goes through the bullseye - even though the rest of the rounds are scattered over the bottom of the target. We celebrate with them and even take pictures of them pointing to their first bullseye.
At 8 feet human error is just not as likely as a rental gun in terrible condition.

[TunnelRat]

At 8 feet human error is just not as likely as a rental gun in terrible condition.

And yet the OP doesn't notice that the pistol is in terrible condition? If this is a mechanical issue the pistol should have a noticeable physical breakage. And not only one pistol, but two pistols with the same issue?

[ShootistPRS]

Breakage? ok, maybe but probably sights seriously out of adjustment, a fouled barrel, or a problem that would require disassembly to discover. When renting a gun to you field strip it before you shoot it? Do you expect it to function without more than giving it a quick glance? As my son is so fond of saying, "It's not mine!".

[TunnelRat]

The sights would have to practically be off the pistol to miss a target completely at 8 ft. A smoothbore barrel can hit a target at 8 ft. This isn't a minor miss. The type of breakage I'm talking about should be noticeable in just handling the pistol. I don't think you're really considering how dramatically off something has to be mechanically for what is being described here.

[ritepath]

You can't expect to shoot a glock dead center first time around, even for glock fans that's somewhat unrealistic. Just because you've always heard "they shoot themselves" doesn't mean it's true.

After years on not shooting glocks a friend got a 19 early this spring. At the range he handed it over to me and I spent the first 12 rounds missing the target at 10 yards completely the final 3 were on the paper. The next mag or two the groups tightened up somewhat. That same target I could eat up with my Shield, CZ, Sig and G2...

I've never messed with range guns, I've always relied on net research then if it felt good in my hands I bought it. (haven't messed up yet except on a g26 where I learned quickly I didn't like shooting little short stubby grips)

[Berserker]

You shot the G19 well, and not the 26 and 43. Could be obvious, looking at the models.

Could be a dirty barrel too. But I'd start with models. But I have never fired a small glock, so I don't know.


Though if you were at 8' not sure why. I would have shot 8 yards myself. They are not a belly gun.

[IMightBeWrong]

I hate saying this because it's not something people like to hear, but if you can't pick up any pistol and shoot it accurately right out of the box then your fundamentals aren't squared away. I've never shot an FN pistol. If I take one out on the range at 8-10 feet I'm going to punch out a decent group my first Mag because I understand the basics. If you can't shoot a gun you aren't used to decently, something is wrong with your fundamentals and you are doing something to compensate for a lack of fundamentals with the guns that you shoot well.

[tallball]

I have a Glock 43. I am a mediocre shot. I have had maybe three range sessions with it. My friend and I always shoot from 15 yards. I could put every round onto a paper target that is about 12" x 12" from the very first time I pulled the trigger. After I got used to it, the vast majority of the hits are towards the middle of the target, with a few "fliers" when I twitch or mess up in some other way.

I would not be surprised if there was a problem with the guns and/or ammo. My experience with the few Glocks that I have shot is that they are about as accurate as any other service pistol of their size and caliber.

[Doc Holliday 1950]

1-It never entered my thoughts that we probably were using reloads. The GS insisted that we use their ammo when renting their guns. I really wondered why.

2- A couple of posters spoke about the possible condition of the rentals. Both looked worn, not the way any of my revolvers or my Glock 19 looks & I did not check the sights or anything else because it never entered my thoughts that their guns could be mechanically deficient.

3- I guarantee that at 8 feet my Poodle would put all shots into a target that measures 3' x 2'. Up until yesterday, I felt that I could shoot any hand gun of any caliber and shoot it well considering that I've carried since 1970 & my training was more intense than anyone who was not in the Armed forces or the Police.
I was an Aux LEO and our training was conducted by an instructor from the FBI. That was the only way we were allowed to ride with the Regulars & carry.

I am not a novice shooter just a novice in buying guns. As to the poster whose avatar is "I might be wrong", you are 100% wrong.

As stated, my wife couldn't hit the target at 8" & she is not a novice at shooting either.

In the past, I have posted that I would never buy ANY used weapons from a GS. They are not trust worthy and yesterday reinforced my feelings.

Buying from a GS is like buying PAWN. To all of you who have good relations and good experiences buying from GS and renting their guns, good for you.

If I sound angry and totally hacked off, I am. This was the second time that we tried to go out and see which semi would be good for her to buy and carry.
After yesterday this will never happen again. She will stick to her LCR 357 or my SP 101 2.5" 357 and shoot 38 cqliber ammo.

[745SW]

I'd say both shooters have large paws. Your cupping the grip rather than grasping. Those with smaller paws are more likely to instictively use more force. The Glock 26 and 43 are sub-compact pistols having less grip area.

Glock's are known to be able to run dry and dirty, probably the reason no cycling issues were noted.

[IMightBeWrong]

As tunnelrat points out, a smooth bore could have hit the target at 8 feet ad OP is talking about large misses.

Again, I want to point out that I'm not trying to criticize the OP, and I may not even be right in my assumptions because I don't know OP and I haven't seen the guns in question.

From 8 feet, with 2 different examples, regardless of how dirty the guns were they should hit no problem. The difference between being fundamentally sound and being able to hit with technique throws off a lot of shooters that haven't had individual training somewhere, and many haven't because paying for training is pretty darn expensive much of the time. This results in a lot of shooters that can hit what they're shooting at with the guns they're used to because they have technique that makes up for their lack of fundamentals with that gun.

The most common example of this that I've seen is with grip and trigger press. One of these is a technique, the other is fundamental. Your fundamentals are the things that allow you to shoot accurately regardless of what gun you're holding, techniques help with other things like recoil control. Many people that I've seen can actually compensate for underdeveloped trigger press fundamentals by adjusting their grip. For example, if you were to lock down a gun super tight in a vice so that only the slide could move and lined it up with a target, you could jerk the trigger like crazy and it's still going to hit. Likewise, if you have a good grip for a gun you're used to (and you should) then you can often land hits with it in spite of not spending enough time developing trigger control. This will become evident when, for example, you pick up a subcompact that takes a different grip technique and squeeze the trigger as you normally would and get different results to the left of your target which happens often with newer shooters that need to learn trigger control.

So, without being able to surely diagnose this as the issue because I am not able to witness what is happening in person, I would recommend that as many people as possible look further into fundamentals vs technique and supplementally look up Jeff Cooper's video on "surprise break." This should go a long way for many because, from what I've seen, most shooters have developed their gear and their technique to a much higher level than they've focused specifically on their fundamentals because in many cases the difference in fundamentals and technique has not been explained to them.

I hope this advice helps. The only other thing I could say is to get pics of the guns, but I highly doubt hats the issue. I've been guilty in the past of blaming gear for my lack of fundamentals as well. We are all guilty of it at some point in time. Sometimes we even do it when we know our fundamentals and are just having an off day. It happens. Maybe it was the guns, but the odds are greatly in favor of it being something the shooter can fix with the advice above.

Edit: Doc, I did say I don't know you. I didn't call you a novice and didn't mean to offend. However, the odds are still in favor of you needing the advice in this post because the likelihood of 2 range guns being the problem is just extremely low. I'm not saying that you can't shoot your guns accurately or making any wild accusations. I'm just saying that in most cases, with most shooters, the advice I posted here will likely fix the issue. Again, you were shooting to the left of the target. This is extremely common with shooters who don't have their trigger press down yet. As I mentioned, I haven't watched you shoot in person, but most of the time shooting left is a common issue with shooters in need of coaching. Based on your post alone as evidence of what could be wrong, if one is playing detective then the most likely scenario is what I came up with. There's always the less likely chance that 2 rental guns had problems, but it's significantly less likely in most cases. If it were me and my fundamentals weren't good, I think I would probably want to blame the rental guns as well. It would feel a lot better than saying "maybe I should recheck my fundamentals." I find it hard to be critical of myself just like anyone else. You don't have to tell me I'm right or anything, but if you'll keep my advice in mind and humor it just a little bit by looking up the stuff I recommended, even if you don't stroke my ego by letting me know you checked it out, then you'll be doing yourself a favor and you'll walk away with some extra knowledge (or perhaps a refresher).

[TunnelRat]

Most shooting ranges want you to use their ammo for two reasons. The first is it's an additional revenue stream. They can't make you do it with your own pistols but with their pistols they can set rules. The second reason is because if you let people use their ammo in the range's pistols you might get someone that shows up with poorly done reloads and "blows up" the pistol. Then the store has to go after the customer for the pistol as well as deal with the PR fallout.

I'll also say that if you do rent a pistol again and find that you're getting way below normal accuracy, it does make sense to look at things like the sights or check to see if even on an external level that the barrel and slide seem to be locking up normally. This isn't saying you need to do a complete disassembly and troubleshoot a pistol that isn't yours. But as a shooter figuring out why an issue is happening, whether user error or an equipment failure, is a very important ability to develop.

I would disagree that buying from a gun store is like buying from a pawn store, or I guess I would say not all pawn stores are bad. There are good ones out there, but finding them can be hard. As for used pistols both the pistol I carry and the one on my night stand were bought used. They've functioned fine as have the dozens of other used pistols I've bought with the thousands of rounds I've shot. While it is true that there is some uncertainty involved I do think they can be fine. In fact I've had just as many issues with new pistols out of the box as used pistols.

Sometimes people have an off day. I'm not going to lecture you about technique and or your fundamentals because I find diagnosing that through text to be rather hard. One recommendation I would make is to mix in dry fire with live fire to see if you can catch a flinch or similar.

At the end of the day if your wife shoots the revolver well and likes it then there's really no problem with her carrying a revolver.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[IMightBeWrong]

I don't mean to come across as "lecturing." I'm just trying to throw out something useful since I can't find the exact issue through text either.

[Targa]

The rentals I have shot generally are not well taken care of. Ridden hard and put away wet, I mainly use them to get a feel for a particular handgun just to see if I like it.

[Doc Holliday 1950]

i think that I'll let this one go. it's not worth go back & forth. You all weren't there
and I can't explain what happened properly.
I've shot rental guns before & never had this happen & for me to miss so poorly at 8 feet is just too bloody weird.

[TunnelRat]

I'm not sure whether you did, but if you notice a problem with a rental pistol you can always tell the people manning the store. Sometimes you can even get one to go back with you and try it too. If there really is an issue sometimes you can get some of the cost waived.

You all weren't there

Very true. All we can do is make comments based on what you tell us. I agree the whole thing is very odd but frankly nothing I've read so far in terms of a response is out of line.

I say this all over but in the end when it comes to handgun shooting the greatest contributing factor is the shooter. Mechanical issues are always a possibility, but it takes a pretty serious issue, or a combination of them, to cause a complete lack of accuracy. I try to analyze a situation objectively; it's not personal.

[Berserker]

They want you to use their ammo for money, don't want hot loads, and they don't want lead bullets used in glocks.



I really don't it is cause they reloaded, unless they are hacks. Even then I doubt it, it is cycling, and acting normal. Not long range here.


Nothing wrong with reloads. One reason people load, so better than the factory. I am not familar with 19, it is a higher pressure load. Not sure how finicky it is.


Cleaning it might go a long way.

[mavracer]

Are you sure they handed you the right gun and ammo, I've seen my local range hand out a G23 and 9mm ammo more than once?