Different Bullets or cases in Reloads?

rburch · February 27, 2009, 01:50 PM

Ok, so I'm just starting out with reloading.

I have the Lyman 49th edition, but I have a question about the process.

Can you swap bullets and cases in the reloading tables?

For example, the 9mm table lists:

125 gr Sierra JHP W/ 3.9 grs of Bullseye. in Federal Brass.

I only have some Hornady 125gr XTP bullets.

Will I be able to use this load or should I find one for the Horandy bullets.

I don't have any federal brass at the moment, only WWB and Hornady. Will the different brass make the load unsafe?

klcmschlesinger · February 27, 2009, 02:14 PM

I am not telling you what to do, but I do this. I back the charges down and check for pressure signs. But yes, I use whatever brass I have, I almost always use Winchester Primers (very available around here), and a Hornady FMJ bullet will be pretty similar to a Remington bullet. Start low and work up.

PCJim · February 27, 2009, 03:53 PM

Rburch, I am sure most everyone on this forum does, or has done, this to some degree. When interchanging components, you should always reduce your powder load and begin working up from the beginning. Rule of thumb if no starting/minimum load is provided is to reduce 10% from the maximum load stated.

As to component interchangability, be careful to insure that you are considering bullets of similar construction and weight, ie FMJ for another copper jacketed bullet design and not copper jacketed for lead, CMJ or TMJ (the latter two being electroplated bullets that look like FMJ but have very different reloading requirements). Also keep in mind that brass from different manufacturers will have varying internal volume which will effect the amount of gas pressure developing inside that case when fired.

rburch · February 27, 2009, 09:14 PM

Quote:

When interchanging components, you should always reduce your powder load and begin working up from the beginning. Rule of thumb if no starting/minimum load is provided is to reduce 10% from the maximum load stated.

I realize 10% is the rule of thumb here, but how much difference does this make? Would 15% give you a better safety margin?

Also, is it safe to load below the starting load levels?

Quote:

As to component interchangability, be careful to insure that you are considering bullets of similar construction and weight, ie FMJ for another copper jacketed bullet design and not copper jacketed for lead, CMJ or TMJ (the latter two being electroplated bullets that look like FMJ but have very different reloading requirements). Also keep in mind that brass from different manufacturers will have varying internal volume which will effect the amount of gas pressure developing inside that case when fired.

As far as this goes, swap 125gr JHP for 125gr JHP, but download by 10%

markr · February 27, 2009, 09:22 PM

You need to be careful not to reduce charges too much either. Remember, the bullet needs enough force behind it to leave the barrel. When you are starting with reduced loads, it is a good idea to check the barrel in between each shot to make sure you don't fire a bullet into the another bullet stuck in your barrel. That is probably worse than a double charge.

PCJim · February 27, 2009, 10:06 PM

Rburch, generally both a minimum and maximum load will be provided. Again, the rule is to begin at either the minimum or, if only a maximum is provided, 10% below maximum. Where a minimum has been provided, it has been tested as being a safe load within the testing confines.

Do not go lower than either of these starting load determinations. Doing so can cause non-linear excessive pressure spikes with unpredictable results.

You are correct in that you can substitute a 125gr jacketed bullet for another 125gr jacketed bullet, but reduce the powder charge and begin working back up when doing so. The reason for this is that different bullet designs will have varying amounts of surface contact with the barrel. Imagine the amount of surface contact difference between a polymer tipped varmit load versus a round nose bullet. Both can weigh the same, but due to the difference in nose design, one will have much more side wall at maximum bullet diameter generating friction with the barrel.

One other area to be concerned with when interchanging components is your COL. I reminded myself of this while thinking of the two bullet designs above. It concerns the available case volume for gas expansion. If you have a pointed bullet and seat it to the COL used for a round nose's recipe, you will be reducing the available case volume thereby increasing pressure. Again, just another reason to always begin working up loads at minimum powder charges when changing components.

rburch · February 27, 2009, 10:09 PM

Quote:

You need to be careful not to reduce charges too much either. Remember, the bullet needs enough force behind it to leave the barrel. When you are starting with reduced loads, it is a good idea to check the barrel in between each shot to make sure you don't fire a bullet into the another bullet stuck in your barrel. That is probably worse than a double charge.

Yeah, I'm aware of the dangers of squib loads. I was actually thinking of getting the Lee Classic Loader. (The one that uses a hammer) or a hand held press so I can load a round or two at a time, and actually adjust my loads at the range.

Sevens · February 27, 2009, 11:18 PM

There have been some great posts in this thread so I won't rehash that... but I wanted to point out something that might help:

Load data from published sources will almost always tell you the brand of primer and the brand of case they used. They don't provide this information so that you run out and buy those components-- they give this info because all the info is relevant. It's often why they also tell you what length of barrel they used to work up and test the load data. They don't expect you to buy a rifle with the same barrel length, they just wanted to pass on all the relevant information from their testing. Case brand and primer maker is relevant.

When the data calls for a magnum primer, your best bet is to use a magnum primer... they typically call for one because that particular powder needs it for proper ignition. You might have erratic performance if you don't use a magnum primer.

If the data calls for a regular primer, you can use a magnum primer BUT ONLY WITH STARTING LOADS, or REDUCED FROM MAX loads, and work your way up. Magnum primers will almost always increase the pressure of whatever load you are working with.

To put it simply... if you worked your way slowly to a max load with regular primers and all is well, no signs of excess or out of line pressure, you'd be crazy to then insert a magnum primer with that max load. If you did that, you'd be lucky if all you did was rupture some brass. Things get nasty quickly.

For bullet substitutions, exactly as the other posts pointed out. Look for similar shapes, similar material construction, and similar COAL and internal space of the loaded round. And never start with MAX loads.

rburch · February 28, 2009, 02:18 AM

Thanks everybody, I believe that's enough to get me started. I'm sure I'll be back with more questions soon enough.

WESHOOT2 · February 28, 2009, 02:44 PM

Never assume like bullets are, because they aren't.

Surface material.
Core construction and hardness.
Bearing surface.
Friction.
More...

Never.....

February 27, 2009, 01:50 PM	#1
rburch Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2007 Location: Blacksburg VA Posts: 750	Different Bullets or cases in Reloads? Ok, so I'm just starting out with reloading. I have the Lyman 49th edition, but I have a question about the process. Can you swap bullets and cases in the reloading tables? For example, the 9mm table lists: 125 gr Sierra JHP W/ 3.9 grs of Bullseye. in Federal Brass. I only have some Hornady 125gr XTP bullets. Will I be able to use this load or should I find one for the Horandy bullets. I don't have any federal brass at the moment, only WWB and Hornady. Will the different brass make the load unsafe? __________________ I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

February 27, 2009, 02:14 PM	#2
klcmschlesinger Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2007 Posts: 201	I do this. I am not telling you what to do, but I do this. I back the charges down and check for pressure signs. But yes, I use whatever brass I have, I almost always use Winchester Primers (very available around here), and a Hornady FMJ bullet will be pretty similar to a Remington bullet. Start low and work up. __________________ klcmschlesinger The Zen philosopher Basho once wrote, "a flute with no holes is not a flute, and a donut with no hole, is a danish."

February 27, 2009, 09:22 PM	#5
markr Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: Arsenal of Democracy Posts: 405	You need to be careful not to reduce charges too much either. Remember, the bullet needs enough force behind it to leave the barrel. When you are starting with reduced loads, it is a good idea to check the barrel in between each shot to make sure you don't fire a bullet into the another bullet stuck in your barrel. That is probably worse than a double charge. __________________ I like to make beer, bullets, and jerky.....but not at the same time. Washed up 11B1P

February 27, 2009, 10:06 PM	#6
PCJim Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2008 Location: FL Posts: 570	Rburch, generally both a minimum and maximum load will be provided. Again, the rule is to begin at either the minimum or, if only a maximum is provided, 10% below maximum. Where a minimum has been provided, it has been tested as being a safe load within the testing confines. Do not go lower than either of these starting load determinations. Doing so can cause non-linear excessive pressure spikes with unpredictable results. You are correct in that you can substitute a 125gr jacketed bullet for another 125gr jacketed bullet, but reduce the powder charge and begin working back up when doing so. The reason for this is that different bullet designs will have varying amounts of surface contact with the barrel. Imagine the amount of surface contact difference between a polymer tipped varmit load versus a round nose bullet. Both can weigh the same, but due to the difference in nose design, one will have much more side wall at maximum bullet diameter generating friction with the barrel. One other area to be concerned with when interchanging components is your COL. I reminded myself of this while thinking of the two bullet designs above. It concerns the available case volume for gas expansion. If you have a pointed bullet and seat it to the COL used for a round nose's recipe, you will be reducing the available case volume thereby increasing pressure. Again, just another reason to always begin working up loads at minimum powder charges when changing components. Last edited by PCJim; February 27, 2009 at 10:22 PM.

February 27, 2009, 11:18 PM	#8
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	There have been some great posts in this thread so I won't rehash that... but I wanted to point out something that might help: Load data from published sources will almost always tell you the brand of primer and the brand of case they used. They don't provide this information so that you run out and buy those components-- they give this info because all the info is relevant. It's often why they also tell you what length of barrel they used to work up and test the load data. They don't expect you to buy a rifle with the same barrel length, they just wanted to pass on all the relevant information from their testing. Case brand and primer maker is relevant. When the data calls for a magnum primer, your best bet is to use a magnum primer... they typically call for one because that particular powder needs it for proper ignition. You might have erratic performance if you don't use a magnum primer. If the data calls for a regular primer, you can use a magnum primer BUT ONLY WITH STARTING LOADS, or REDUCED FROM MAX loads, and work your way up. Magnum primers will almost always increase the pressure of whatever load you are working with. To put it simply... if you worked your way slowly to a max load with regular primers and all is well, no signs of excess or out of line pressure, you'd be crazy to then insert a magnum primer with that max load. If you did that, you'd be lucky if all you did was rupture some brass. Things get nasty quickly. For bullet substitutions, exactly as the other posts pointed out. Look for similar shapes, similar material construction, and similar COAL and internal space of the loaded round. And never start with MAX loads. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

February 27, 2009, 03:53 PM	#3
PCJim Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2008 Location: FL Posts: 570	Rburch, I am sure most everyone on this forum does, or has done, this to some degree. When interchanging components, you should always reduce your powder load and begin working up from the beginning. Rule of thumb if no starting/minimum load is provided is to reduce 10% from the maximum load stated. As to component interchangability, be careful to insure that you are considering bullets of similar construction and weight, ie FMJ for another copper jacketed bullet design and not copper jacketed for lead, CMJ or TMJ (the latter two being electroplated bullets that look like FMJ but have very different reloading requirements). Also keep in mind that brass from different manufacturers will have varying internal volume which will effect the amount of gas pressure developing inside that case when fired.

February 28, 2009, 02:18 AM	#9
rburch Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2007 Location: Blacksburg VA Posts: 750	Thanks everybody, I believe that's enough to get me started. I'm sure I'll be back with more questions soon enough. __________________ I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

February 28, 2009, 02:44 PM	#10
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	how close is close? Never assume like bullets are, because they aren't. Surface material. Core construction and hardness. Bearing surface. Friction. More... Never..... __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"