Cast Boolit load/Aluminum GC

Lord Bob · January 14, 2009, 07:37 PM

Okay, I'll flaunt my ignorance.
Just getting into bullet casting, got the aluminum gas check maker (from old spent coke cans).
Can I use regular, low-power-end load from that bullet weight load data on a GC bullet?
What are some powder options for lead bullets? Does it even matter?
I've heard horror stories (aluminum oxide based) about aluminum gas checks. Is this BS, or fact?

Again, I bow to superior knowledge and wisdom in the continued effort to avoid disfigurement.

Many thanks.
Have at it.

kraigwy · January 14, 2009, 07:43 PM

What gun and load are you casting for. I have several cast bullet for gas checks but I seldum use the gas checks, even with rifles.

Why don't you try it without the gas checks and see how it works first.

Lord Bob · January 14, 2009, 10:17 PM

Right now, probably a 308 or 30-06. Maybe something else in the .30 class, but I'm trying those to start with. Rifles would be a 98k and an 03.

totalloser · January 17, 2009, 02:34 AM

Aluminum pop can gas checks??? OMG I gotta have it! Where did you get it?

If it's like most data for pistols, you use a reduced charge due to the better sealing from the soft exterior. Cast lead is usually .001" larger, and seals off well, so more pressure is created. So reduced loads keep the pressure under control. Higher pressures also help melt off some of the base and cause excessive leading-especially if you have a soft alloy, worse if you have a gas check type bullet with no gas check. Maybe still not a problem, tho.

Hope someone with more experience chimes in, but I'd love to hear a little about the gas check maker!

darkgael · January 17, 2009, 06:38 AM

The tools are available on Ebay. Search for "FreeChex". I believe that Ebay is the only source, at least for this brand (don't know if there are other brands). The fellow who makes them does not always have all calibers available. The "buy it now" is $39.95.
Pete

NuJudge · January 17, 2009, 08:30 AM

They should not have much to do with sealing gasses.

Cast bullets are much softer than Jacketed bullets. The treatment a bullet gets in the chamber, throat and rifling is pretty rough. Cast can not take as much roughness as Jacketed. Hard Cast bullets can take more roughness than soft Cast. Gas Checks allow much higher velocities to be achieved without Leading and without groups going wild. Each barrel is a rule unto itself, but with a good bullet lubricant, Cast velocities above about 1200 fps without a gas check will result in Leading and grouping problems.

Most of the printed loads for Cast involve powders used for larger gauge shotguns. To name a few, Bullseye, Unique, Red Dot 2400. Other slower powders are usable in some rifle calibers, powders as slow as 4895, and perhaps a bit slower. Cast bullets in rifles can practically never take the rough handling of even a starting load for Jacketed. There are rifle powders that are known for being tollerant of loads reduced below those suggested as starting rifle loads, and 4895 is one of them. Using powders slower than 4895 in the reduced loads that cast bullets tollerate risks something called Secondary Explosion Effect.

I have made a few aluminum gas checks and used them, but not many. There are group buys on the Cast Boolit board of Gator Checks, Gas Checks made by an independent manufacturer, which are much cheaper than the Hornady/Lyman ones. I am satisfied with them.

Scorch · January 17, 2009, 12:51 PM

Sounds like an inexpensive alternative to copper gas checks. I remember reading an article years ago about the issues Winchester faced in developing the Silvertip handgun bullets. One issue was that aluminum galls on steel above 1,200 fps, and if they fired very many aluminum jacketed bullets they got really bad fouling. That's the main reason the Silvertip handgun bullets were low-velocity numbers, usually around 1,000-1,100 fps. Something to consider if you are using a very soft ductile aluminum like the stuff used for cans. But give it a try and let us know how it works.

Lord Bob · January 17, 2009, 11:39 PM

Galling is a concern from the aluminum, and to be honest, it seems to be one extreme or the other from people I asked. Some people feel the paint/coating on the can material (along w/ the lube) should prevent oxidation and galling, while others say the aluminum w/ either oxidize and wear your barrel out, or gall.

It's irritating, but I've looked all over the place, and wherever this question is asked, it seems to devolve into questions about the GC and making them rather than any effect. This apparently is a KMAGYOYO.

I do appreciate the information, and more is always appreciated. I'm apparently going to have to get some Unique or 2400. Are any of the cowboy action powders viable (i.e. Trail Boss).

As always, thanks.

January 14, 2009, 07:37 PM	#1
Lord Bob Member Join Date: July 8, 2006 Posts: 16	Cast Boolit load/Aluminum GC Okay, I'll flaunt my ignorance. Just getting into bullet casting, got the aluminum gas check maker (from old spent coke cans). Can I use regular, low-power-end load from that bullet weight load data on a GC bullet? What are some powder options for lead bullets? Does it even matter? I've heard horror stories (aluminum oxide based) about aluminum gas checks. Is this BS, or fact? Again, I bow to superior knowledge and wisdom in the continued effort to avoid disfigurement. Many thanks. Have at it.

January 14, 2009, 07:43 PM	#2
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	What gun and load are you casting for. I have several cast bullet for gas checks but I seldum use the gas checks, even with rifles. Why don't you try it without the gas checks and see how it works first. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

January 14, 2009, 10:17 PM	#3
Lord Bob Member Join Date: July 8, 2006 Posts: 16	Type of bullet Right now, probably a 308 or 30-06. Maybe something else in the .30 class, but I'm trying those to start with. Rifles would be a 98k and an 03.

January 17, 2009, 02:34 AM	#4
totalloser Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2007 Location: Fort Bragg, CA Posts: 679	Aluminum pop can gas checks??? OMG I gotta have it! Where did you get it? If it's like most data for pistols, you use a reduced charge due to the better sealing from the soft exterior. Cast lead is usually .001" larger, and seals off well, so more pressure is created. So reduced loads keep the pressure under control. Higher pressures also help melt off some of the base and cause excessive leading-especially if you have a soft alloy, worse if you have a gas check type bullet with no gas check. Maybe still not a problem, tho. Hope someone with more experience chimes in, but I'd love to hear a little about the gas check maker! __________________ You only truly believe in freedom if you believe in the freedom of those you disagree.

January 17, 2009, 06:38 AM	#5
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	Freechex The tools are available on Ebay. Search for "FreeChex". I believe that Ebay is the only source, at least for this brand (don't know if there are other brands). The fellow who makes them does not always have all calibers available. The "buy it now" is $39.95. Pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member

January 17, 2009, 08:30 AM	#6
NuJudge Member Join Date: October 17, 2005 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 86	Gas checks act as a structural support for bullet base They should not have much to do with sealing gasses. Cast bullets are much softer than Jacketed bullets. The treatment a bullet gets in the chamber, throat and rifling is pretty rough. Cast can not take as much roughness as Jacketed. Hard Cast bullets can take more roughness than soft Cast. Gas Checks allow much higher velocities to be achieved without Leading and without groups going wild. Each barrel is a rule unto itself, but with a good bullet lubricant, Cast velocities above about 1200 fps without a gas check will result in Leading and grouping problems. Most of the printed loads for Cast involve powders used for larger gauge shotguns. To name a few, Bullseye, Unique, Red Dot 2400. Other slower powders are usable in some rifle calibers, powders as slow as 4895, and perhaps a bit slower. Cast bullets in rifles can practically never take the rough handling of even a starting load for Jacketed. There are rifle powders that are known for being tollerant of loads reduced below those suggested as starting rifle loads, and 4895 is one of them. Using powders slower than 4895 in the reduced loads that cast bullets tollerate risks something called Secondary Explosion Effect. I have made a few aluminum gas checks and used them, but not many. There are group buys on the Cast Boolit board of Gator Checks, Gas Checks made by an independent manufacturer, which are much cheaper than the Hornady/Lyman ones. I am satisfied with them.

January 17, 2009, 12:51 PM	#7
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Sounds like an inexpensive alternative to copper gas checks. I remember reading an article years ago about the issues Winchester faced in developing the Silvertip handgun bullets. One issue was that aluminum galls on steel above 1,200 fps, and if they fired very many aluminum jacketed bullets they got really bad fouling. That's the main reason the Silvertip handgun bullets were low-velocity numbers, usually around 1,000-1,100 fps. Something to consider if you are using a very soft ductile aluminum like the stuff used for cans. But give it a try and let us know how it works. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

January 17, 2009, 11:39 PM	#8
Lord Bob Member Join Date: July 8, 2006 Posts: 16	Galling Galling is a concern from the aluminum, and to be honest, it seems to be one extreme or the other from people I asked. Some people feel the paint/coating on the can material (along w/ the lube) should prevent oxidation and galling, while others say the aluminum w/ either oxidize and wear your barrel out, or gall. It's irritating, but I've looked all over the place, and wherever this question is asked, it seems to devolve into questions about the GC and making them rather than any effect. This apparently is a KMAGYOYO. I do appreciate the information, and more is always appreciated. I'm apparently going to have to get some Unique or 2400. Are any of the cowboy action powders viable (i.e. Trail Boss). As always, thanks.