.45 acp reloads not fully loading

garwoos · May 6, 2008, 11:14 PM

Just got a new Taurus 1911. Using 230 gr lead reloads, and some of the rounds are not fully feeding into the barrel. Manufacturer suggests using 230 gr fmj, but I am trying to conserve money (so I can shoot more) by using lead. Any suggestions what I should do to get these to feed properly. Using Lee dies. Powder and primer are not a factor. This occurs during loading.

copdills · May 6, 2008, 11:38 PM

I had the same problem and got a taper crimp die and it solved my problem if I am reading this right

Sarge · May 6, 2008, 11:45 PM

Assuming your brass is resized enough, there are at least two other things that can cause or contribute to this.

Insufficient case belling prior to seating bullet. A little lead or lube gets smeared around the case mouth and the rounds don't want to seat in the chamber.

Insufficient taper crimp. I use a Hornady TC die myself but don't be afraid to bring the case mouth right into the side of a lead bullet. Just make sure you don't bury it there or both accuracy and headspace may suffer.

Hope this helps.

PS- Check your OAL, too. If your individual barrel has a shallow leade (into the rifling) you may have to seat a tad deeper to accommodate it. Just make sure you don't seat the bullets deeper than specified for a given powder charge. Reduce your charge when seating deeper than specified by the manuals.

jcadwell · May 7, 2008, 12:07 AM

The bullets may be oversized or cocked into the case when loaded. You could resize all the bullets, or try a Lee Factory Crimp Die. It will resize the case AFTER you seat a round, and then crimp the case without pushing the bullet any farther in. Makes for a "better" crimp with less shaving lead. It also ensures that the case and bullet are the same diameter as the case is 'supposed' to be. I use the Factory Crimp Die for my auto calibers, and it has made my guns more reliable.

Threefeathers · May 7, 2008, 12:24 AM

I've loaded this caliber for 30 years and found that I had to taper crimp. However also check your sizing die and make certain it is sizing the entire case. You might have to look closely, this will keep from seating the last 1/32 or so of an inch.

TexasSeaRay · May 7, 2008, 01:34 AM

The two "S's"--Sizing and Seating.

If your brass isn't sized correctly, you're working uphill already. If your bullets are properly sized (and some cast bullets aren't), the hill is getting steeper.

And finally, if you're not seating and then crimping correctly (ie, deep enough--check your COAL), the hill becomes vertical.

Jeff

tom234 · May 7, 2008, 01:45 AM

Taper crimp to .469-.471" ? If so, you might benefit from using a Lee FCD.

firechicken · May 7, 2008, 07:11 AM

What is your cartridge OAL? I've found 1.250" works well with my 230gr LRN loads.

garwoos · May 7, 2008, 09:37 AM

I have been reloading with my dad and for some reason we have been afraid to crimp. Sounds kind of silly now. I will give the crimp a try and I have a feeling that should do the trick. I just don't see going to the fmj just for practice. Thanks for the response everyone.

Sevens · May 7, 2008, 10:36 AM

MOST dies built in a caliber that's typical for a semi-auto pistol will include a taper crimp feature on the bullet seating die. MOST dies built in a caliber that's typically a rimmed revolver round will include a roll crimping feature on the bullet seating die.

Whether or not you are crimping depends on how far your bullet seating die is screwed in to your press.

If you are properly loading lead bullets in a .45, you should be flaring or belling the case mouth to accept the bullet. If you are properly loading lead bullets in a .45, you should also be taper crimping the rounds if you want them to properly feed and chamber in most any pistol.

A Lee FCD may help you to produce better feeding rounds, but there's many thousands of us out there who have done fine without one. This could be because of die adjustment, bullet size & choice, the particulars of the pistol that eats the ammo or technique at the press.

Sevens · May 7, 2008, 10:37 AM

Quote:

I have been reloading with my dad and for some reason we have been afraid to crimp.

You ought to be much more afraid of not crimping. Bullet setback is a good way to raise chamber pressure exponentially and damage a fine pistol or your shooting hand.

drail · May 7, 2008, 01:43 PM

Hold a loaded round up to a good light and look down the side of the case. If any of the flaring is still present you will be able to see it. You'll have to crimp enough to remove all of the flare plus just a little more. Start with a light crimp and increase a little at a time. If you take the barrel out of the gun and use it as a gauge your rounds should drop in all the way and fall out easily. I also use Lee dies. I've used the standard seat and crimp die and also the taper crimp die and had no problems. On an ACP round you will have to crimp to get reliable feeding. Another thing to consider is overall length. Don't be afraid to experiment with the length as most every pistol is different. 1.250 is a good starting point.

garwoos · May 7, 2008, 01:49 PM

Thank you everyone. I will be testing some of the newly reloaded "crimped" rounds this week end or maybe sooner.

Alleykat · May 7, 2008, 02:54 PM

Quote:

You ought to be much more afraid of not crimping. Bullet setback is a good way to raise chamber pressure exponentially and damage a fine pistol or your shooting hand.

Taper crimping has absolutely nothing to do with preventing setback!

JDG · May 7, 2008, 05:26 PM

Oal of 1.250 works for most guns, and too much crimp can also cause problems. You can actually loosen the neck tension, and or, bulge the brass if ya over do it.

Sevens · May 7, 2008, 06:23 PM

I've heard you say that before AlleyKat, but it I don't see it that way at my bench. Yes, I realize that case mouth tension is what prevents setback, but it's pretty obvious that I can take a piece of brass with a nicely flared case mouth and push a bullet well in to it, and I cannot with one that isn't flared, and I can't with one that is taper crimped.

If we can agree that flaring a case mouth helps to open up the brass so the bullet can freely seat without shaving lead--

and we can agree that taper crimping un-does the flaring of the case mouth--

Why can't we agree that taper crimping aids in the defense of bullet setback?

In any case, he said he & his Dad were afraid of crimping on the whole. Roll crimping, taper crimping and crimping rifle cases will all help to reduce the possibility of bullet setback. Crimping your loaded reloads is not something you should be afraid to do.

BAD_KARMA · May 7, 2008, 07:17 PM

A Lee Carbide crimp die will solve the problems. It posts sizes the case and will smooth out any bulges in the case that prevent feeding. I use one for all auto loading cals. I load.

Chief-7700 · May 7, 2008, 09:18 PM

Buy a case gauge and drop you reloads into the go no go gauge.
Dillon and many other suppliers have them 15 buck max.
Chief-7700

T. O'Heir · May 7, 2008, 09:30 PM

"...give the crimp a try..." It must be a taper crimp. Once you get that sorted out, take out the barrel and use the chamber for a guage. Drop the loaded cartridge in the chamber to make sure it fits. Needs to be flush with the back of the chamber.

Alleykat · May 8, 2008, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Why can't we agree that taper crimping aids in the defense of bullet setback?

Nah, we can't agree on that, and I'm not the only person cognizant of the fact that taper crimping has little-to-no effect on setback. Roll-crimping into a cannelure, however, is a different story.

Sevens · May 8, 2008, 09:51 AM

Good enough.

JDG · May 8, 2008, 02:03 PM

Quote:
Nah, we can't agree on that, and I'm not the only person cognizant of the fact that taper crimping has little-to-no effect on setback. Roll-crimping into a cannelure, however, is a different story.

I made a snap cap out of a 45acp case and a rainier 230gr bullet, and after repeated dryfires, the bullet would start setting back. After crimping the hell out of it

it still set back. Finally I filled the case with paper, seated a new bullet, finally no more set back

AKGunner · May 8, 2008, 06:03 PM

I pick up range brass. Everything! The Lee Factory Crimp die solved the feeding problem I was having on my Wilson 45acp. I put it on the last station on my Dillon 650 and have basically left it alone. I loaded about 10-12k rounds over the last year with 0 feeding prblems.

My guess is that if I perhaps had another pistol or only used brass shot through my pistol I wouldn't have any feeding problems without the Lee FCD. My gun is very, very, very accurate and reliable with the ammo I produce, so I'm happy.

May 6, 2008, 11:14 PM	#1
garwoos Junior Member Join Date: May 6, 2008 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 7	.45 acp reloads not fully loading Just got a new Taurus 1911. Using 230 gr lead reloads, and some of the rounds are not fully feeding into the barrel. Manufacturer suggests using 230 gr fmj, but I am trying to conserve money (so I can shoot more) by using lead. Any suggestions what I should do to get these to feed properly. Using Lee dies. Powder and primer are not a factor. This occurs during loading.

May 6, 2008, 11:45 PM	#3
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	Assuming your brass is resized enough, there are at least two other things that can cause or contribute to this. Insufficient case belling prior to seating bullet. A little lead or lube gets smeared around the case mouth and the rounds don't want to seat in the chamber. Insufficient taper crimp. I use a Hornady TC die myself but don't be afraid to bring the case mouth right into the side of a lead bullet. Just make sure you don't bury it there or both accuracy and headspace may suffer. Hope this helps. PS- Check your OAL, too. If your individual barrel has a shallow leade (into the rifling) you may have to seat a tad deeper to accommodate it. Just make sure you don't seat the bullets deeper than specified for a given powder charge. Reduce your charge when seating deeper than specified by the manuals. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

May 7, 2008, 01:34 AM	#6
TexasSeaRay Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 810	The two "S's"--Sizing and Seating. If your brass isn't sized correctly, you're working uphill already. If your bullets are properly sized (and some cast bullets aren't), the hill is getting steeper. And finally, if you're not seating and then crimping correctly (ie, deep enough--check your COAL), the hill becomes vertical. Jeff __________________ If every single gun owner belonged to the NRA as well as their respective state rifle/gun association, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today. So to those of you who are members of neither, thanks for nothing.

May 7, 2008, 07:11 AM	#8
firechicken Senior Member Join Date: April 17, 2006 Location: Savannah, MO Posts: 224	What is your cartridge OAL? I've found 1.250" works well with my 230gr LRN loads. __________________ The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. - Edmund Burke

May 7, 2008, 10:36 AM	#10
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	MOST dies built in a caliber that's typical for a semi-auto pistol will include a taper crimp feature on the bullet seating die. MOST dies built in a caliber that's typically a rimmed revolver round will include a roll crimping feature on the bullet seating die. Whether or not you are crimping depends on how far your bullet seating die is screwed in to your press. If you are properly loading lead bullets in a .45, you should be flaring or belling the case mouth to accept the bullet. If you are properly loading lead bullets in a .45, you should also be taper crimping the rounds if you want them to properly feed and chamber in most any pistol. A Lee FCD may help you to produce better feeding rounds, but there's many thousands of us out there who have done fine without one. This could be because of die adjustment, bullet size & choice, the particulars of the pistol that eats the ammo or technique at the press. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

May 6, 2008, 11:38 PM	#2
copdills Member Join Date: June 18, 2007 Location: Clover South Carolina Posts: 62	I had the same problem and got a taper crimp die and it solved my problem if I am reading this right

May 7, 2008, 12:07 AM	#4
jcadwell Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2006 Posts: 166	The bullets may be oversized or cocked into the case when loaded. You could resize all the bullets, or try a Lee Factory Crimp Die. It will resize the case AFTER you seat a round, and then crimp the case without pushing the bullet any farther in. Makes for a "better" crimp with less shaving lead. It also ensures that the case and bullet are the same diameter as the case is 'supposed' to be. I use the Factory Crimp Die for my auto calibers, and it has made my guns more reliable.

May 7, 2008, 12:24 AM	#5
Threefeathers Junior member Join Date: June 7, 2004 Location: AZ Posts: 392	I've loaded this caliber for 30 years and found that I had to taper crimp. However also check your sizing die and make certain it is sizing the entire case. You might have to look closely, this will keep from seating the last 1/32 or so of an inch.

May 7, 2008, 01:45 AM	#7
tom234 Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2008 Location: Kansas Posts: 753	Taper crimp to .469-.471" ? If so, you might benefit from using a Lee FCD.

May 7, 2008, 09:37 AM	#9
garwoos Junior Member Join Date: May 6, 2008 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 7	I have been reloading with my dad and for some reason we have been afraid to crimp. Sounds kind of silly now. I will give the crimp a try and I have a feeling that should do the trick. I just don't see going to the fmj just for practice. Thanks for the response everyone.

May 7, 2008, 01:43 PM	#12
drail Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2008 Posts: 3,150	Hold a loaded round up to a good light and look down the side of the case. If any of the flaring is still present you will be able to see it. You'll have to crimp enough to remove all of the flare plus just a little more. Start with a light crimp and increase a little at a time. If you take the barrel out of the gun and use it as a gauge your rounds should drop in all the way and fall out easily. I also use Lee dies. I've used the standard seat and crimp die and also the taper crimp die and had no problems. On an ACP round you will have to crimp to get reliable feeding. Another thing to consider is overall length. Don't be afraid to experiment with the length as most every pistol is different. 1.250 is a good starting point.

May 7, 2008, 01:49 PM	#13
garwoos Junior Member Join Date: May 6, 2008 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 7	Thank you everyone. I will be testing some of the newly reloaded "crimped" rounds this week end or maybe sooner. __________________ Beretta U22 Neos Springfield XD9 compact Ruger MK III hunter Yugo SKS Taurus M94 Taurus PT1911 Ruger .357 Blackhawk

May 7, 2008, 05:26 PM	#15
JDG Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2005 Location: West Michigan Posts: 673	Oal of 1.250 works for most guns, and too much crimp can also cause problems. You can actually loosen the neck tension, and or, bulge the brass if ya over do it.

May 7, 2008, 06:23 PM	#16
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	I've heard you say that before AlleyKat, but it I don't see it that way at my bench. Yes, I realize that case mouth tension is what prevents setback, but it's pretty obvious that I can take a piece of brass with a nicely flared case mouth and push a bullet well in to it, and I cannot with one that isn't flared, and I can't with one that is taper crimped. If we can agree that flaring a case mouth helps to open up the brass so the bullet can freely seat without shaving lead-- and we can agree that taper crimping un-does the flaring of the case mouth-- Why can't we agree that taper crimping aids in the defense of bullet setback? In any case, he said he & his Dad were afraid of crimping on the whole. Roll crimping, taper crimping and crimping rifle cases will all help to reduce the possibility of bullet setback. Crimping your loaded reloads is not something you should be afraid to do. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

May 7, 2008, 07:17 PM	#17
BAD_KARMA Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2000 Posts: 171	A Lee Carbide crimp die will solve the problems. It posts sizes the case and will smooth out any bulges in the case that prevent feeding. I use one for all auto loading cals. I load.

May 7, 2008, 09:18 PM	#18
Chief-7700 Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Location: Carmel Valley, CA Posts: 112	Buy a case gauge and drop you reloads into the go no go gauge. Dillon and many other suppliers have them 15 buck max. Chief-7700 __________________ COLT M-1911 DOB 1918 and more a XL-650 to feed them

May 7, 2008, 09:30 PM	#19
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...give the crimp a try..." It must be a taper crimp. Once you get that sorted out, take out the barrel and use the chamber for a guage. Drop the loaded cartridge in the chamber to make sure it fits. Needs to be flush with the back of the chamber. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

May 8, 2008, 09:51 AM	#21
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Good enough. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

May 8, 2008, 02:03 PM	#22
JDG Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2005 Location: West Michigan Posts: 673	I agree Quote: Nah, we can't agree on that, and I'm not the only person cognizant of the fact that taper crimping has little-to-no effect on setback. Roll-crimping into a cannelure, however, is a different story. I made a snap cap out of a 45acp case and a rainier 230gr bullet, and after repeated dryfires, the bullet would start setting back. After crimping the hell out of it it still set back. Finally I filled the case with paper, seated a new bullet, finally no more set back

May 8, 2008, 06:03 PM	#23
AKGunner Senior Member Join Date: September 3, 2006 Location: Alaska Posts: 152	The Evil Lee Facory Crimp Die Worked For Me I pick up range brass. Everything! The Lee Factory Crimp die solved the feeding problem I was having on my Wilson 45acp. I put it on the last station on my Dillon 650 and have basically left it alone. I loaded about 10-12k rounds over the last year with 0 feeding prblems. My guess is that if I perhaps had another pistol or only used brass shot through my pistol I wouldn't have any feeding problems without the Lee FCD. My gun is very, very, very accurate and reliable with the ammo I produce, so I'm happy.