fun shotgun for newbie

TheBear · October 14, 2011, 02:07 PM

Hi,

I never owned or even shot a shotgun. Now I want to get one for small range (max 35yards) rat/mouse/dove hunting and fun shooting in my garden. It should be pretty small, with little recoil and noise, something like the .22lr of shotguns...
I have no idea about shotgun calibers, chokes(??) or anything like this.

Buzzcook · October 14, 2011, 03:24 PM

35yds is extreme range for a .410, but that should fit the bill.

Lots of old bolt action, pumps and single shots out there. Hunt the used gun shops till you find one that's rust free and fits.

oneounceload · October 14, 2011, 03:27 PM

Lots of 410 choices - some real crap, some real gems, and a bunch somewhere in between

Single shots, SxS, O/U, pumps and semis - all can be had in the diminutive 410, and will do the job - 35 is about the max range, but it is doable

jaymce · October 14, 2011, 03:55 PM

I know oneounceload cringes everytime he sees one mentioned in a post... but I would go converted Saiga in 410. Ton of fun to shoot! If you plan on primarily using it for clays and bird hunting then I would go with pump, semi auto, sxs, O/U

oneounceload · October 14, 2011, 06:43 PM

Cringe is close............GACKING would be more like it.....

Personally, a model 42 would be ideal AND have a touch of class..........

TheBear · October 15, 2011, 02:55 AM

any recomendements for a break barrel .410 shotgun? Double barrel would be nice to.

Buzzcook · October 15, 2011, 01:06 PM

Quote:

any recomendements for a break barrel .410 shotgun? Double barrel would be nice to.

Just remember that with a double barrel the price goes up.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=255225547

Really all you have to do is haunt pawn shops and other places till you find what you want. Another option is online sites such as gunbroker.com

Shotguns are very simple machines and will last pretty much forever. That means the used market is full of good deals.

This Stevens will kill rats and bunnies just fine.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=256237016

wingspar · October 15, 2011, 06:59 PM

I’m in the same boat. Never shot a shotgun, but am seriously thinking about one. #1 is the Remington 870 in 20 gauge as I’ve read it’s a much softer recoil than 12 gauge. However, I haven’t written off the .410. How do the .410 and 20 gauge compare for recoil?

My use would be for fun on the range. Not HD and no hunting.

oneounceload · October 15, 2011, 07:22 PM

break barrel 410-look at Ugartechea SxS, used..........built on a scaled frame, it will be light and easy to use

lamarw · October 15, 2011, 07:49 PM

My first thought was a .410 also, but then I remembered the cost of .410 rounds. The .20 gauge is actully not bad on recoil and is a more versatile shotgun round.

It is my recommendation.

dalecooper51 · October 15, 2011, 11:00 PM

Quote:

I’m in the same boat. Never shot a shotgun, but am seriously thinking about one. #1 is the Remington 870 in 20 gauge as I’ve read it’s a much softer recoil than 12 gauge.

This is not true. The 20 ga version weighs about a pound less then the 12ga version. It makes it nice to carry in the field, but recoil is not much softer then the 12ga version. It is pretty stout. Shooting the lightest loads you can out of a heavy properly fitting gun will have the most impact on reducing recoil.

Ideal Tool · October 15, 2011, 11:11 PM

I have an old damascus barreled (beautiful pattern in metal) 16ga. Ithaca double. Bore nice. I had gathered up paper shells, cardboard/felt wads, for black-powder loading. Then at gun show, I came across two Savage "four-tenners on a fellows table..both in 16ga.! These are steel and aluminum tubes chambered for 3" .410. After checking with several knowledgeable gunsmiths who gave me the ok, I tried it on hand thrown clays.
What a blast! No recoil, birds were being dusted with ease.

Dave McC · October 16, 2011, 03:32 PM

For the record, the 20 gauge 870 here is quite a kicker. It's just 6 lbs,2 oz and slugs, buck etc, are emphatic.

Still, with light loads, good fit and form, it's a fun shooter. With some 3/4 oz handloads mimicking 28 gauge ballistics, it's really a blast.

hogdogs · October 16, 2011, 04:54 PM

Quote:

For the record, the 20 gauge 870 here is quite a kicker. It's just 6 lbs,2 oz and slugs, buck etc, are emphatic.

YES!!! WHAT HE SAID!!!

While my Mossberg 20 ga. is not real hard hitting with a mag tube full of shells firing off slugs etc...

My new to me 1953 Savage double gun weighs only 5.85 pounds with 20 inch barrels... I am quickly fearing a "flinch factor" will develop if I don't get some new stocks with a recoil pad... That second shot smarts... I would likely be all over the place trying to settle down and shoot 10-20 rounds of slug thru the bugger.

As for ammo price... .410 as a plinking round is for rich folks... Even cheap field loads are STEEP!!! I can buy mid shelf .270 rifle ammo for the price of low shelf .410...

You literally buy a 100 round "promo pack" brick for right around the same price as a 20-25 round box of .410 shells...

Brent

johnwilliamson062 · October 16, 2011, 07:38 PM

Get a 12 ga. B/c it is the standard you can buy ammo for it pretty much as cheap as the smaller shell. You can get pretty week loads that aren't too loud. Also, you can get an adapter for it which will allor you to single shot a 20 GA or 410 if you really need to be quiet.

jr05 · October 16, 2011, 09:14 PM

Get a 20 gauge Remington 870.

410 is great, but EXPENSIVE. I think you would be quite happy with 20 gauge, it has milder recoil than 12 gauge but still has good shot quantity and distance. One of my favorite rounds to shoot...

wingspar · October 16, 2011, 11:28 PM

Interesting. In all the posts I’ve read, and it’s been a few dozen in different forums, all said the 20 gauge is mild recoil compared to the 12 gauge... until this thread, which is also the first shotgun thread I have participated in. I don’t have the opportunity to try either, so I must buy blind. I’m not a fan of big recoil. I haven’t shot my 30-06 for 25 years or more because of the recoil. 5.56 and 7.62x39 are fine. I want to be able to shoot everything from birdshot to slugs and still have it be enjoyable. Everything I’ve read up to this thread has pointed me to the 20 gauge. Now, I’m beginning to wonder if I should just move on, and forget the shotgun altogether.

.300 Weatherby Mag · October 17, 2011, 12:41 AM

If you shoot a quality 20 gauge (NOT A POS SINGLE SHOT) the recoil is quite tame especially in a quality over/under (beretta 686 / Browning Citori etc..)... A good 20 gauge autoloader (not an ultralight model) is especially pleasant... My 20 gauge Wingmaster light contour does kick but it is not excessive...

hogdogs · October 17, 2011, 07:34 AM

Wing, on the contrary... Don't move on... MOVE UP!!! To a 12...

Or just add weight (if possible) to the 20. But with 12 gauge there is just more variety than all the others!

Folks see a smaller shell and think smaller re-coil than they see a smaller gun and bore and think smaller recoil...

But the fact is an equally proportionate Shell payload and powder charge drop in 20 gauge WILL recoil exactly the same as a 12 gauge in an equally proportionate weight of gun.

If the 20 is disproportionately LIGHTER... it will recoil more...

Brent

oneounceload · October 17, 2011, 02:32 PM

An equal weight load at the same velocity will have the same recoil. When fired in a lighter gun, the recoil increases - hence you can easily have a 20 that has more recoil than a 12

BigJimP · October 17, 2011, 03:18 PM

You need to shoot some shotguns in 12ga and 20ga ...with light loads at 7/8 oz or maybe 1 oz ....and see what these guys are talking about....

A good semi-auto vs a solid breech gun ( like a pump ) is also a very good way to go ....and a lot of us shoot "light loads" these days ...especially if we want to shoot 150 - 300 shells a week ...

shooting heavy loads ( like slugs ) in a light gun ...whether its a 12ga or a 20ga ...is not a lot of fun..../ but if you want one gun that will do all of that ...with the lightest recoil ...go with a gas operated semi-auto ...like the new Browning Silver series or the Winchester SX3's / one of the Beretta semi-auotos / maybe a Remington 1100 or 11-87 ... there are lots of them on the market - both new and used...( and make sure it has changeable screw in chokes ...so you can do a little of everything with it ).

wingspar · October 18, 2011, 11:01 AM

Unfortunately, there is no chance in getting to try out either a 12 gauge or 20 gauge. I am in a position of buying to try. All I really have to go by is what I can gather from the forums, and until I jumped into this thread, everything pointed to the 20 gauge as being milder to shoot. It’s a smaller shell, so as an example, I’ll use #4 buckshot. With the 20 gauge shell being smaller than 12 gauge, would not the charge and the amount of buckshot both be less than the 12 gauge? Would the 20 gauge shotgun be that much lighter than a 12 gauge to negate the recoil?

Also, I hear the term light loads, but in looking at ammo online, I can’t recall the term “light load”. 2-3/4" shells. 3" shells? Why the two different lengths of shells? Most modern shotguns seem to shoot both. Are the 2-3/4 shells considered light loads?

You can tell I really know nothing about shotguns. I don’t need one, but I want one, but not if it’s not going to be fun to shoot. I will not use it for HD. That roll is filled by a .45 ACP, and in the tight corners and halls of my house, wielding a long heavy gun wouldn’t work.

hogdogs · October 18, 2011, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Unfortunately, there is no chance in getting to try out either a 12 gauge or 20 gauge. I am in a position of buying to try.

Unless you are immobile or a total butthead... you can "try" guns by meeting up with folks at places such as skeet fields or even public open ranges where shotguns get used...

Quote:

All I really have to go by is what I can gather from the forums, and until I jumped into this thread, everything pointed to the 20 gauge as being milder to shoot. It’s a smaller shell, so as an example, I’ll use #4 buckshot. With the 20 gauge shell being smaller than 12 gauge, would not the charge and the amount of buckshot both be less than the 12 gauge? Would the 20 gauge shotgun be that much lighter than a 12 gauge to negate the recoil?

Most typical production guns are built on a 12 gauge frame or the 20 gauge frame... The weight difference can be significant and a trip thru some spec pages at "buds guns" can show you. Realize the additional % of barrel thickness, mag tube and spring diameter on a 12 and it adds up.

An 870 20 will weigh more than the mossberg 500 20 as the M-500 is alloy frame.

Quote:

Also, I hear the term light loads, but in looking at ammo online, I can’t recall the term “light load”. 2-3/4" shells. 3" shells? Why the two different lengths of shells? Most modern shotguns seem to shoot both. Are the 2-3/4 shells considered light loads?

3" is for more specialized use where more shot or powder or both is needed... I never need them. 2 3/4" are standard. but they can be loaded with less shot, powder or both for specialized use where max payload and charge are not needed and reduced recoil is a substantial benefit.

Quote:

You can tell I really know nothing about shotguns. I don’t need one, but I want one,

Asking is one way to learn... And wantin' one is all the reason you need...

Quote:

but not if it’s not going to be fun to shoot. I will not use it for HD. That roll is filled by a .45 ACP, and in the tight corners and halls of my house, wielding a long heavy gun wouldn’t work.

With a $45 recoil pad... Even a light little single shot is pretty light hitting on the shoulder.
Brent

oneounceload · October 18, 2011, 11:52 AM

Quote:

I can’t recall the term “light load”. 2-3/4" shells. 3" shells? Why the two different lengths of shells? Most modern shotguns seem to shoot both. Are the 2-3/4 shells considered light loads?

I can load a 2-3/4" that will thump you more than a 3"

Power determines recoil. Light loads are typically those used for clay target shooting as it doesn't take much to break a target - 7.5, 8, 8.5 or 9 shot running at 1200 fps or LESS will still break clays and not be too harsh in the recoil department - all other factors considered

Winchester, among others, has a training load that runs about 980fps - VERY soft shooting, but it will NOT work the semi auto type of shotgun

TheBear · October 18, 2011, 12:38 PM

what about the 28 gauge? a buddy told me its in the gap between .410 and 20gauge. Would this be a good choice for me?

October 15, 2011, 06:59 PM	#8
wingspar Senior Member Join Date: September 24, 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 258	I’m in the same boat. Never shot a shotgun, but am seriously thinking about one. #1 is the Remington 870 in 20 gauge as I’ve read it’s a much softer recoil than 12 gauge. However, I haven’t written off the .410. How do the .410 and 20 gauge compare for recoil? My use would be for fun on the range. Not HD and no hunting. __________________ Gary Will Fly for Food... and more Ammo

October 16, 2011, 11:28 PM	#17
wingspar Senior Member Join Date: September 24, 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 258	Interesting. In all the posts I’ve read, and it’s been a few dozen in different forums, all said the 20 gauge is mild recoil compared to the 12 gauge... until this thread, which is also the first shotgun thread I have participated in. I don’t have the opportunity to try either, so I must buy blind. I’m not a fan of big recoil. I haven’t shot my 30-06 for 25 years or more because of the recoil. 5.56 and 7.62x39 are fine. I want to be able to shoot everything from birdshot to slugs and still have it be enjoyable. Everything I’ve read up to this thread has pointed me to the 20 gauge. Now, I’m beginning to wonder if I should just move on, and forget the shotgun altogether. __________________ Gary Will Fly for Food... and more Ammo

October 17, 2011, 03:18 PM	#21
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	You need to shoot some shotguns in 12ga and 20ga ...with light loads at 7/8 oz or maybe 1 oz ....and see what these guys are talking about.... A good semi-auto vs a solid breech gun ( like a pump ) is also a very good way to go ....and a lot of us shoot "light loads" these days ...especially if we want to shoot 150 - 300 shells a week ... shooting heavy loads ( like slugs ) in a light gun ...whether its a 12ga or a 20ga ...is not a lot of fun..../ but if you want one gun that will do all of that ...with the lightest recoil ...go with a gas operated semi-auto ...like the new Browning Silver series or the Winchester SX3's / one of the Beretta semi-auotos / maybe a Remington 1100 or 11-87 ... there are lots of them on the market - both new and used...( and make sure it has changeable screw in chokes ...so you can do a little of everything with it ). Last edited by BigJimP; October 17, 2011 at 03:23 PM.

October 18, 2011, 11:01 AM	#22
wingspar Senior Member Join Date: September 24, 2009 Location: Oregon Posts: 258	Unfortunately, there is no chance in getting to try out either a 12 gauge or 20 gauge. I am in a position of buying to try. All I really have to go by is what I can gather from the forums, and until I jumped into this thread, everything pointed to the 20 gauge as being milder to shoot. It’s a smaller shell, so as an example, I’ll use #4 buckshot. With the 20 gauge shell being smaller than 12 gauge, would not the charge and the amount of buckshot both be less than the 12 gauge? Would the 20 gauge shotgun be that much lighter than a 12 gauge to negate the recoil? Also, I hear the term light loads, but in looking at ammo online, I can’t recall the term “light load”. 2-3/4" shells. 3" shells? Why the two different lengths of shells? Most modern shotguns seem to shoot both. Are the 2-3/4 shells considered light loads? You can tell I really know nothing about shotguns. I don’t need one, but I want one, but not if it’s not going to be fun to shoot. I will not use it for HD. That roll is filled by a .45 ACP, and in the tight corners and halls of my house, wielding a long heavy gun wouldn’t work. __________________ Gary Will Fly for Food... and more Ammo

October 14, 2011, 02:07 PM	#1
TheBear Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2011 Posts: 303	fun shotgun for newbie Hi, I never owned or even shot a shotgun. Now I want to get one for small range (max 35yards) rat/mouse/dove hunting and fun shooting in my garden. It should be pretty small, with little recoil and noise, something like the .22lr of shotguns... I have no idea about shotgun calibers, chokes(??) or anything like this.

October 14, 2011, 03:24 PM	#2
Buzzcook Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2007 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 6,126	35yds is extreme range for a .410, but that should fit the bill. Lots of old bolt action, pumps and single shots out there. Hunt the used gun shops till you find one that's rust free and fits.

October 14, 2011, 03:27 PM	#3
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Lots of 410 choices - some real crap, some real gems, and a bunch somewhere in between Single shots, SxS, O/U, pumps and semis - all can be had in the diminutive 410, and will do the job - 35 is about the max range, but it is doable

October 14, 2011, 03:55 PM	#4
jaymce Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2007 Posts: 269	I know oneounceload cringes everytime he sees one mentioned in a post... but I would go converted Saiga in 410. Ton of fun to shoot! If you plan on primarily using it for clays and bird hunting then I would go with pump, semi auto, sxs, O/U

October 14, 2011, 06:43 PM	#5
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Cringe is close............GACKING would be more like it..... Personally, a model 42 would be ideal AND have a touch of class..........

October 15, 2011, 02:55 AM	#6
TheBear Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2011 Posts: 303	any recomendements for a break barrel .410 shotgun? Double barrel would be nice to.

October 15, 2011, 07:22 PM	#9
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	break barrel 410-look at Ugartechea SxS, used..........built on a scaled frame, it will be light and easy to use

October 15, 2011, 07:49 PM	#10
lamarw Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2010 Location: Lake Martin, AL Posts: 3,311	My first thought was a .410 also, but then I remembered the cost of .410 rounds. The .20 gauge is actully not bad on recoil and is a more versatile shotgun round. It is my recommendation.

October 15, 2011, 11:11 PM	#12
Ideal Tool Junior member Join Date: October 6, 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,080	I have an old damascus barreled (beautiful pattern in metal) 16ga. Ithaca double. Bore nice. I had gathered up paper shells, cardboard/felt wads, for black-powder loading. Then at gun show, I came across two Savage "four-tenners on a fellows table..both in 16ga.! These are steel and aluminum tubes chambered for 3" .410. After checking with several knowledgeable gunsmiths who gave me the ok, I tried it on hand thrown clays. What a blast! No recoil, birds were being dusted with ease.

October 16, 2011, 03:32 PM	#13
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	For the record, the 20 gauge 870 here is quite a kicker. It's just 6 lbs,2 oz and slugs, buck etc, are emphatic. Still, with light loads, good fit and form, it's a fun shooter. With some 3/4 oz handloads mimicking 28 gauge ballistics, it's really a blast.

October 16, 2011, 07:38 PM	#15
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	Get a 12 ga. B/c it is the standard you can buy ammo for it pretty much as cheap as the smaller shell. You can get pretty week loads that aren't too loud. Also, you can get an adapter for it which will allor you to single shot a 20 GA or 410 if you really need to be quiet.

October 16, 2011, 09:14 PM	#16
jr05 Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2006 Location: NH Posts: 145	Get a 20 gauge Remington 870. 410 is great, but EXPENSIVE. I think you would be quite happy with 20 gauge, it has milder recoil than 12 gauge but still has good shot quantity and distance. One of my favorite rounds to shoot...

October 17, 2011, 12:41 AM	#18
.300 Weatherby Mag Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2008 Posts: 1,777	If you shoot a quality 20 gauge (NOT A POS SINGLE SHOT) the recoil is quite tame especially in a quality over/under (beretta 686 / Browning Citori etc..)... A good 20 gauge autoloader (not an ultralight model) is especially pleasant... My 20 gauge Wingmaster light contour does kick but it is not excessive...

October 17, 2011, 07:34 AM	#19
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Wing, on the contrary... Don't move on... MOVE UP!!! To a 12... Or just add weight (if possible) to the 20. But with 12 gauge there is just more variety than all the others! Folks see a smaller shell and think smaller re-coil than they see a smaller gun and bore and think smaller recoil... But the fact is an equally proportionate Shell payload and powder charge drop in 20 gauge WILL recoil exactly the same as a 12 gauge in an equally proportionate weight of gun. If the 20 is disproportionately LIGHTER... it will recoil more... Brent

October 17, 2011, 02:32 PM	#20
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	An equal weight load at the same velocity will have the same recoil. When fired in a lighter gun, the recoil increases - hence you can easily have a 20 that has more recoil than a 12

October 18, 2011, 12:38 PM	#25
TheBear Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2011 Posts: 303	what about the 28 gauge? a buddy told me its in the gap between .410 and 20gauge. Would this be a good choice for me?