CCW with a single action

[Real Gun]

What would constitute "success stories"?

The ability to conceal, to draw, and to fire. There is nothing there about comparison to alternatives, only self defense. There is nothing there requiring one to defend their choice against someone trying to bully the premise.

[OldMarksman]

The ability to conceal, to draw, and to fire.

Nothing about effectiveness (rapidity of shots with combat accuracy, and possibly draw speed from different positions)? No need to compare alternatives to discuss that.

[BeornLS]

Maybe it's just me, but if I see or know someone concealed carrying a single action revolver, I'm going to assume immediately that they know how to use it and use it well.

With that said, the only single action I carry is an NAA PUG as a backup in most cases (rarely as a primary) and thats for sized based reasons. I did toy with carrying a Bond Arms derringer for a bit, but that was more because I simply loved that silly thing.

When practicality calls, its a J frame or G43 or maybe a .380 if I have to hover in the middle somewhere size wise.

[jackmoser65]

Some should start their own thread about why NOT to carry a concealed single action. We are so intent on attacking the premise here that there is no room for discussing how and why some do carry a single action (concealed). As has been stated, the typical single action is a pretty big gun, while the Model P Jr. clones are actually quite viable as a carry gun in modern dress and with skill in handling the gun.

Well said.

Maybe it's just me, but if I see or know someone concealed carrying a single action revolver, I'm going to assume immediately that they know how to use it and use it well.

Probably a safe assumption.

[reteach]

What would constitute "success stories"?

In the original post I wrote

How do you carry, what kind of holster, where did you get the holster, how do you manage reloads?

In post #19 I wrote

by "success stories" I meant in just the carrying and concealing, not the use of the gun in a fight.

So, experience and ideas that demonstrate the feasibility of carrying a single action revolver concealed.

Thanks again, Real Gun.

[OldMarksman]

Maybe it's just me, but if I see or know someone concealed carrying a single action revolver, I'm going to assume immediately that they know how to use it and use it well.

If by "use it well" you mean that they would be able to draw from concealment quickly while moving and put several shots into the upper chest area of a fast moving assailant in a second or two at close range, might I ask why you would assume that?

That's what defensive shooting with a handgun is about.

Have you ever seen anyone try to do it in a realistic defensive training scenario?

Now, that question would apply to any kind of firearm--a derringer, a five shot light alloy snubby revolver, a little NAA .22, a very small compact semiautomatic with poor sights and a grip too small to support one's pinky....

One cannot confidently make any assumption whatsoever about a defender's ability on the basis of what he or she carries.

One can, whoever, be fairly confident that if the carrier is trained and has practiced, he will do better if he has selected and trained with something that has a reasonably good sized grip, fairly low recoil, and a good trigger pull; that does not require a separate motion to disengage a safety; that does not require a separate motion between shots; that presents a low risk of hanging up on his clothing; and that has a fairly high round capacity.

It is probably unlikely that any serious practitioners of concealed carry will be altogether happy with their first choice. I have an officer size steel ,45 single action automatic, but capacity and the impact of retail on rapidity if fire put it on reserve statue. I divested a compact 9mm that hurt my hand and replaced it with another model that I could shoot better, but then I found through experience, and unexpectedly. that the separate safety switch presented possible risks. I ended up with a compact double column 9 without a separate safety, after a lot of soul searching.

For backup, I have a six shot concealed hammer steel revolver with an excellent trigger pull.

I did not make those changes just to spend money. I did so after having availed myself of quality defensive training, listening to the insructor, and observing others with their choices.

[OldMarksman]

In post #19 I wrote "by "success stories" I meant in just the carrying and concealing, not the use of the gun in a fight."

So, experience and ideas that demonstrate the feasibility of carrying a single action revolver concealed.

Gotcha!

Now, if I may respectfully ask, what would that bit of knowledge provide?

[jackmoser65]

If by "use it well" you mean that they would be able to draw from concealment quickly while moving and put several shots into the upper chest area of a fast moving assailant in a second or two at close range, might I ask why you would assume that?

And you think this is hard to do?

One can, whoever, be fairly confident that if the carrier is trained and has practiced, he will do better if he has selected and trained with something that has a reasonably good sized grip, fairly low recoil, and a good trigger pull; that does not require a separate motion to disengage a safety; that does not require a separate motion between shots; that presents a low risk of hanging up on his clothing; and that has a fairly high round capacity.

Far as I'm concerned, the underlined parts are the only valid points. Sure, IF that's what he chooses to train with. I'm sorry but the difference between platforms is just not as significant as you seem to think.

One cannot confidently make any assumption whatsoever about a defender's ability on the basis of what he or she carries.

Really, you don't say??? You don't see the irony in that statement????

[reteach]

Now, if I may respectfully ask, what would that bit of knowledge provide?

In the original post I wrote

How do you carry, what kind of holster, where did you get the holster, how do you manage reloads?

Knowledge about those things.

[moosemike]

How much of a Fudd would one have to be to argue that the SA revolver is a sensible choice for a CCW?

[moosemike]

Maybe it's just me, but if I see or know someone concealed carrying a single action revolver, I'm going to assume immediately that they know how to use it and use it well.

It's just you. I'd assume he's a Fudd out to make a fashion statement.

[jackmoser65]

The Fudd nonsense is real productive.

[Guv]

One assumption that seems to have been made several times on this topic is that SA shooters are more accomplished than others with different types of handguns.
That's a pretty big assumption to make.

[OldMarksman]

And you think this[(to draw from concealment quickly while moving and put several shots into the upper chest area of a fast moving assailant in a second or two at close range)] is hard to do?

In comparison with other designs, yes. The extra step required between shots is one issue. The popularity of the single action revolver fell very rapidly when better choices became available.

The hammer configuration mitigates against a smooth draw from concealment.

The heyday of the single action revolver as we know it today preceded the common practice of concealed carry by a very long time. Single action revolvers that were carried concealed, such as the S&W tip-ups, may have been the best they had at the time, but they did not long endure in the marketplace.

[BeornLS]

Originally Posted by OldMarksman

If by "use it well" you mean that they would be able to draw from concealment quickly while moving and put several shots into the upper chest area of a fast moving assailant in a second or two at close range, might I ask why you would assume that?

Good morning all! My assumption is based on the fact that any reasonable shooter knows there are better options than a single action. If I DO happen to see a person concealed carrying a single action (which for the record I never have), I'm going to assume probably one of three things:

1. They are clueless or just showing off - Possible...but those types usually carry the really elaborate >$1000 setups. So unless they just got through watching their favorite western I would think this the least likely case. In this case I think they would be the 'Fudd' mentioned in this thread. Which makes me realize how much I miss the old Saturday morning cartoons.

2. They are carrying the only handgun they own, in which case I would presume they know how to use it. - Maybe...remember the old saying "beware the man with one gun, he probably knows how to use it"

3. They have reviewed their options and alternatives and came to the conclusion that even with all the better options available they can STILL use the single action better than any other alternative they have. - I consider this the most likely option. They probably are well versed on how to draw and shoot it, have practiced with it, etc. This is a decision that only the carrying person can make. At the end of the day, there is a remote possibility they are betting their life on this decision. So again, anyone of sound mind that makes this decision possibly betting their life on it...well I'm going to assume they are darn good with that single action.

So that's how I draw my assumptions, basically a hypothesis so to speak. Always better to err on the side of caution.

Again...this is all just my humble opinion. Not something I pushed on anyone, just a casual statement I made and my reply when inquired.

Have a great day all!

[Real Gun]

Replicas of what could have been carried concealed in the day:

Cimarron Model "P" Jr.

Cimarron Lightning

The Bird's Head grip

I think it is a fallacy that a hammer spur gets caught on clothing during the draw, since my thumb is held behind the hammer, ready to come up over and cock.

[OldMarksman]

They have reviewed their options and alternatives and came to the conclusion that even with all the better options available they can STILL use the single action better than any other alternative they have. - I consider this the most likely option.

That's possible. More likely I think, are---

• Their ideas of how a "gunfight" begins, occurs, and is ended come from screen fiction
• They are prohibited from possessing a firearm that uses fixed ammunion, but insist on carrying concealed anyway
• They do not take the defensive aspects of concealed carry very seriously

Of course, it is not really possible to observe what someone does and understand why, and there are other possibilities.

I would be interested in how many people started out with the idea of carrying a single action revolver concealed for purposes of self-protection and stuck with it after having availed themselves of some good defensive pistol shooting training.

Replicas of what could have been carried concealed in the day:

The Lightning was double action. None of the others existed "in the day".

I think it is a fallacy that a hammer spur gets caught on clothing during the draw, since my thumb is held behind the hammer, ready to come up over and cock.

That, of course, is the prescribed method for drawing a revolver with an exposed hammer, though with a DA it is considered imprudent to cock the hammer.

It is more difficult with a Model P hammer than with, say, a Chief's Special.

[Real Gun]

The Lightning was double action. None of the others existed "in the day".

Historically yes, but the Uberti Lightning is single action ( I own two in 38 Special), identical to the Model P Jr except for grip frame. I show it as a sample of what is available today and better suited to concealed carry than the big irons typical of single action guns. I read that the original Lightning action was not reliable, so that could explain Uberti ignoring it for reproduction purposes, still getting the period look of the thing.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The only person I saw carrying a SA gun was in the boonies in TX. He was the local deputy. It was after an advanced handgun class. The class went to BBQ in a small joint. We had a reserved room for us. About 12 guys, all with concealed higher capacity semis. The deupty is wearing a big old cowboy hat and had a nickled SAA (or so it seemed) with a belt of rounds hung under his substantial belly. He gave us all the tough guy stink eye. If we were desperadoes - those six rounds, well ...

The debate is silly. I once drove across country in a old V-8 Pontiac with no AC in the summer time. Now I can in a nice SUV with AC and electronics. A concealed slingshot might work if you are David.

I agree that idea that the person carrying it must be skilled beyond belief with it as compared to other guns, is simply Internet posturing.

[jackmoser65]

One assumption that seems to have been made several times on this topic is that SA shooters are more accomplished than others with different types of handguns.

Nope. The assumption should be that the individuals in question are more accomplished with single actions than any other handgun type.

In comparison with other designs, yes. The extra step required between shots is one issue. The popularity of the single action revolver fell very rapidly when better choices became available.

It's not really an issue and I think five shots in well under two seconds is pretty quick. Popularity is irrelevant.

The hammer configuration mitigates against a smooth draw from concealment.

No it doesn't.

Their ideas of how a "gunfight" begins, occurs, and is ended come from screen fiction

That's comical. This is true regardless of chosen platform and not necessarily more applicable here than any other discussion. I sure as hell don't do it because of a movie. The fantasy here is that somehow the perception of the single action revolver has become that of a quaint range toy. Those of us who use them regularly know just how foolish this is.

They are prohibited from possessing a firearm that uses fixed ammunion, but insist on carrying concealed anyway

Well no one has referenced blackpowder guns here.

They do not take the defensive aspects of concealed carry very seriously

Of course not. If t hey don't make the same choices as you then how could they be taken seriously??? It's not like they have a single action defensive class at Gunsite or anything.

Replicas of what could have been carried concealed in the day:

Those are good examples of what one might choose to carry today.

The debate is silly.....I agree that idea that the person carrying it must be skilled beyond belief with it as compared to other guns, is simply Internet posturing.

I can see how a San Francisco lawyer might think that but shot timers don't lie. There's a lot of posturing going on. I think I'm in a better position to judge my own skill level than anyone "posturing" on the internet.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

David was confident with his skill with a sling shot.

Have you run a SAA gun with simunition rounds in a realistic FOF scenario or two? Range times are nice when drawing against the static square target. OldM is discussing actual utility compared against modern guns.

Any gun works in the good ol', draw the gun and wave it around in the no shots fired DGU. A flintlock might work. So what?

[OldMarksman]

The assumption should be that the individuals in question are more accomplished with single actions than any other handgun type.

Forget about the "assumption". The question is, why on earth would anyone today choose a single action revolver with which to become accomplished for concealed defensive carry?

[jackmoser65]

Here's five shots in three secs with full power .454. Not exactly the same thing but it puts things in perspective when the speed of CAS shooters is disregarded.

https://youtu.be/5F71SPRFr_Y

Have you run a SAA gun with simunition rounds in a realistic FOF scenario or two?

Have you? I'm speaking from experience, are you?

The question is, why on earth would anyone today choose a single action revolver with which to become accomplished for concealed defensive carry?

I think some members here have been trying to explain that to you but apparently you cannot accept any choice that differs from your own. I don't know if you realize this or not but concealed defensive carry is but one of many purposes for a handgun. The question is why would someone spend all day working with a single action and then strap on a Glock just to go to town for a loaf of bread? Why would someone shoot tens of thousands of rounds a year through one platform and then carry another that is of absolutely no interest to them? Not everybody lives in the suburbs, works in a cubicle and loves Glocks.

[HighValleyRanch]

Here's five shots in three secs with full power .454. Not exactly the same thing but it puts things in perspective when the speed of CAS shooters is disregarded.

https://youtu.be/5F71SPRFr_Y

LOL, five shots in three seconds at FIVE yards!. Do you really think the bear is going to stand there at 5 yards while you take shots? He could cover that five yards in a blink of any eye, so forget the 5 shots, you only made one.....maybe!

[OldMarksman]

Here's five shots in three secs with full power .454.

Fine. A novice using a service semiautomatic can shoot three controlled rounds in a second, and trained shooters double that.

How fast might one need? An assailant closing in from a short distance can cover five meters in one second. How many hits Smith be required to hit anything important within his body isa matter of chance.

Have you [(run a SAA gun with simunition rounds in a realistic FOF scenario or two??)]

Glenn is quite experienced in realistic FoF training.

I don't know if you realize this or not but concealed defensive carry is but one of many purposes for a handgun.

Of course.

The question is why would someone spend all day working with a single action and then strap on a Glock just to go to town for a loaf of bread? Why would someone shoot tens of thousands of rounds a year through one platform and then carry another that is of absolutely no interest to them?

Simple--to choose the right tool for the task at hand.

I like shoot a .22 target semi-automatic and a big DA Smith, I used to like to shoot a Colt 1851 replica and my old .45 SAA, but I would not choose to carry any one of them concealed for self defense.

Not everybody lives in the suburbs, works in a cubicle and loves Glocks.

I don't work in a cubicle, and I don't like Glocks very much.