Different load data for Speer bullets ?

[dgang]

After checking with Alliant Powders loading data I found that they only give data for Speer bullets. My understanding is that Speer bullets are clad and not made with the traditional jacket, therefore are softer and require different amounts of powder. Is this true? Is there a source I can access to find the difference in loads between Speer and other bullets of the same weight and configuration? Thanks in advance and good shooting to y'all. dgang

[PawPaw]

All reloading data will specify certain things, to include a specific bullet. That refliects the data from that bullet, that powder, that rifle, that primer, and that case, seated to that OAL and fired from that rifle.

While there are some loads that work well across the board, (we call these pet loads), there is always some tweaking that must be done for the best performance in an individual rifle.

What you'll find when working with Alliant powders, which I use extensively, is that Alliant publishes "recipes" with a specific bullet. They don't give starting loads, they don't give max pressures, they simply list one load that they've found works well in their particular test rifle.

It's incumbent on the prudent handloader to understand the data that he's presented and use it to make a safe, effective load in his firearm. All the traditional caveats apply. Start slow, work up, looking for pressure signs along the way.

[Adamantium]

Alliant and Speer are owned by the same parent company, hence Alliant promoting Speer products. There is really nothing more to it than that. If you want to substitute Brand X bullet for a Speer go for it, just remember to stick with the same weight and do a proper work up from a reduced load.

[FrankenMauser]

What you'll find when working with Alliant powders, which I use extensively, is that Alliant publishes "recipes" with a specific bullet. They don't give starting loads, they don't give max pressures, they simply list one load that they've found works well in their particular test rifle.

Most current Alliant data is, in fact, a MAXIMUM load.
They often publish that fact in really stupid locations, but 99% of their data is for max loads.

Much of the older data is mixed, though.
Bottom line: Pay attention to the data you're using. Some companies tell you where to start. Some companies tell you where to stop. Some companies recommend a mid point. It's up to you to decide how to use that information.

[ligonierbill]

Back to the OP, Speer makes a wide variety of bullets, as do its competitors. Nothing unique about the brand with regard to manufacturing. Bullets of the same weight from different companies, or even different bullets within the company, will be similar, but not necessarily the same. Speer has separate load data for their Trophy Bonded Bear Claw, for example. As always, start low and work up whenever you change components.

[oneoldsap]

Speer cautions the user of Deep Curl bullets not to use data for any other bullet , including theirs . Data for the deep curl is available on Speers web site . They say that they bond the core to the jacket on the molecular level , not sure just what that means . Deep Curls do indeed have a jacket . Not sure how different the data is .

[FrankenMauser]

Speer cautions the user of Deep Curl bullets not to use data for any other bullet , including theirs . Data for the deep curl is available on Speers web site . They say that they bond the core to the jacket on the molecular level , not sure just what that means . Deep Curls do indeed have a jacket . Not sure how different the data is .

Deep Curl bullets are plated.
That is the reason for all of the claims, and the differences in load data.

[dgang]

Looks like I will have to break down and buy a Speer manual. I have had mixed answers to the question of whether Speer bullets are plated or jacketed. Maybe some bullets ( rifle ) are plated or bonded and others ( pistol ) are jacketed. I was trying to transpose data I had from other loads I like to Speer bullets of the same weight and configuration, maybe not a good idea. I'll just follow the load given in the manual. Thanks for the answers, dgang

[serf 'rett]

My impression is that Speer does indeed make both jacketed and plated. A Speer manual is a good idea because they do give both starting and maximum loads.

[oneoldsap]

If they are plated , why is there no mention of that fact in the description ? They do mention bonding the core to the jacket !

[FrankenMauser]

That's exactly where the confusion is coming from.
Speer DOES make both kinds of bullets. Some are jacketed. Some are plated.
The most popular plated bullets are the Gold Dot and Deep Curl.

[black mamba]

I believe all their bonded bullets are "plated." They describe the process as putting on the jacket material "one molecule at a time." These are the Gold Dot and Deep Curl bullets.

[castnblast]

What caliber are you looking at? I can tell you the load data for 270 on their 130 BTSPS and 100 gr 243 BTSPS runs exactly the same in my rifles as does the equivalent Sierra bullet. This comes from
Work ups with both loads. POI is exactly the same with same powder charges on for each caliber. The trophy bonded bear claw and deep curl data is different, but I don't shoot those. My 243 bullet of choice is the Speer 85gr BTSP. I'm too cheap to shoot bear claws and don't really have the need to do so.

[temmi]

The key is PROPER workup when changing anything.

Have you considered buying the book produced by the bullet manufacturer you plan to use?

Once you get a few you will see that they very by bullet quite a bit.


Snake

[dgang]

Had no help from Speer about the construction of their bullets. However, Ben from Alliant informs me that some Speer bullets are traditionally jacketed and some are not. Amount of powder depends on what bullet you are planning to load. Gold Dot requires a different set of data. dgang

[GWS]

Speaking of Ben from alliant....

I found some an unopened pound of 40 year-0ld Bullseye in my garage. I looked on Alliant's 40 S&W web data and found only data for their Gold Dots.

Anyway I emailed them to ask if I could use today's data on 40 year-old powder. He said yeah if it still smells good (no sour smell) and is still dry. He then sent me more data than they had on the site. I'll share it with you guys.

Ben Amonette, Technical Service Manager at Alliant Powder Company sent me the following data:

40 Smith & Wesson

150 – 155 gr jacketed or lead

Bullseye start 5 grs max 5.5 grs
Unique start 5.5 grs max 6 grs
Power Pistol start 6.3 grs max 7 grs

165 gr jacketed or lead

Bullseye start 4.8 grs max 5.4 grs
Unique start 5.3 grs max 5.8 grs
Power Pistol start 6 grs max 6.8 grs

180 gr jacketed or lead

Bullseye start 4.6 grs max 5.1 grs
Unique start 5 grs max 5.5 grs
Power Pistol start 5.8 grs max 6.3 grs

Note: Start with the minimum charge wt and test fire a few to be sure they will cycle the action of your pistol before reloading a quantity.

First Class Man that Ben..... the moral of the story is.... if you don't ask you won't receive.

BTW, if there's any typo's in the data above it is Ben's. I cut and pasted directly from his Email. Always be in the habit to compare any web data to one or two printed manuals, to check for abnormal charges that come from typos...or worse.

[dgang]

I agree, Ben seems to know his stuff and is willing to share. Good guy in this age of " don't care, don't give a damn. Thanks for the info. dgang