Get out the lead bullets

AzShooter · December 1, 2018, 02:19 PM

Well, my friend just started reloading on a progressive press and is having problems keeping his mind on what he is doing, not advancing the shell plate after sizing a round so he doesn't end up loading the previous case.

It's a learning experience but shouldn't be if you pay attention to what you are doing, No disturbance in the loading room, no phone calls, no T.V. and just load.

So far he's blown up one gun with a double charge. Had three that I know of but one did blew out the cylinder and the top strap of his Ruger.

The best is left to last. On his Taurus he had 4 misloads with no powder and stuck all four in the barrel.

The question is "How do you dislodge 4 bullets. I gave him my squib rod but told him I didn't think he could do it and to send it back to Taurus. He's as stubborn as me and I know he's not going to send it back.

My only advice was to put it in a vice, hit the squib rod with a 3 pound sledge and pray.

Any other suggestions?

**JohnKSa** · December 1, 2018, 02:43 PM

First piece of advice. Tell him he's not suited to reloading. He needs to get rid of his equipment and go back to factory ammo before he really hurts himself or someone else. If he got into reloading for savings, ask him how he's going to save money by blowing up and damaging guns and potentially having to pay to deal with injuries to himself or others. If he got into it for the fun of reloading, tell him to stop shooting the ammo and just have fun reloading.

Second piece of advice. If he's going to shoot his reloads with others present, he needs to put up a big sign that has pictures of his blown/damaged guns, and a big notice saying: "Careless Novice Reloader. Keep Clear!"

Advice for the Taurus. Replace the barrel.

If he's going to keep reloading, saw the old barrel in half lengthwise. Hang one half over the reloading bench. Take the other one to the range and set it on the shooting bench where it's visible to him and others during the entire shooting session.

**Aguila Blanca** · December 1, 2018, 05:44 PM

How do you not advance the shell plate on a progressive press? All the progressives I've seen automatically advance the shell plate each time you pull the handle. Is he maybe using a turret press that doesn't offer auto-indexing?

I certainly agree that this is a person who should give up reloading, like yesterday.

**44 AMP** · December 1, 2018, 06:12 PM

Quote:

How do you not advance the shell plate on a progressive press?

use a Dillion RL 450 or 550 or some of the other older lower price point models.

I won't claim expertise on current models of progressive presses, I got out of them years ago, and went back to my single stage presses. But I do know that several models from different folks didn't always have an auto advance feature.

The guy who is blowing up his guns, and doing other things to ruin them shouldn't be reloading. But it is America, and you have the right to be an idiot until you hurt someone..

mostly...

**Aguila Blanca** · December 1, 2018, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44_AMP

I won't claim expertise on current models of progressive presses, I got out of them years ago, and went back to my single stage presses. But I do know that several models from different folks didn't always have an auto advance feature.

Semantics, I guess. To me, if it doesn't automatically advance the shell plate it's not a "progressive" press.

MisterAllen · December 1, 2018, 06:52 PM

When im loading the cell phone is not with me. Door is locked behind me. I tell everyone in the house im loading do not bother me. I had squibs in the past. Due to others around when im reloading. Lesson learned.

reddog81 · December 2, 2018, 01:56 AM

What kind of Taurus? What was the Ruger?

Maybe he should be limited to using Trail Boss powder or other powders that'll be overflowing if double charged.

Geezerbiker · December 2, 2018, 02:38 AM

When I first got started with my Dillon, I would sometimes forget to push the lever forward to seat a primer. This would leave flakes of powder here and there on the press and sometimes I'd get the impression of a flake of powder on a seated primer.

It didn't take me long to get into the swing of things...

Tony

JT-AR-MG42 · December 2, 2018, 05:15 AM

When I started loading on my MEC 9000 progressive (stepped up from a Lee hand loader),
it came with a basic piece of advice that transferred over nicely to my 550b.

Paraphrased, it said; 'If you start with a wad in your left hand and an empty hull in your right before you touch the handle,
and have empty hands after having cycled the handle, you have correctly loaded a round.'

I took the same principle over to my 550b. If I start with a bullet in my left hand and an empty in my right, I need to have empty hands after having operating the handle.

Any deviation is checked out as to where I am in the sequence before operating the handle again.
This method does not yield the 600/hour Dillon claim, but it works for me.

There is enough of an inherent danger in both shooting and re-loading firearms to begin with, even for the conscientious shooter/re-loader.
If this guy was my friend, I would attempt an intervention until I felt I had helped him to learn a proper routine.

JT

USSR · December 2, 2018, 07:25 AM

Having taught reloading for the past 3 years, I also have come to the conclusion that some people just don't have the mindset for reloading and should not do so. Now you know why after a class, I break down all the ammo that students have loaded.

Don

5whiskey · December 2, 2018, 07:35 AM

See, I have a QC check for this. Before I seat a bullet, I must see the powder. Every single time, every single round. I too have had squib loads, 2 of them and maybe a third (can't remember exactly). They were years ago and I learned my lesson. A visual inspection of the powder should prevent squib rounds and double charges.

AzShooter · December 2, 2018, 08:14 AM

I've told him to put a light or a mirror over station 2 so he cold verify he has powder and then put the bullet on. I'm trying to talk him into going back to his one position RCBS. It would cost him a lot less in the long run.

He's a great friend but stubborn as can be.

I can't believe he shot 4 rounds without checking to see if they were hitting the target.

oley55 · December 2, 2018, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Semantics, I guess. To me, if it doesn't automatically advance the shell plate it's not a "progressive" press.

Semantics or "time and space". I have two Dillon RL450s purchased in 1984 (I think). They were marketed as a progressive press. Ya gotta get your head around the times. Back then the Dillon 450 was a big deal. It was the only "progressive" available that didn't cost an arm, a leg (and promissory note on your first born). Everything else fell into the category of commercial ammo production.

Yes, considering automatic advance features on machines today, calling a RL450/BL550 a "progressive" seems almost inappropriate.

Since I was down memory lane, I just looked at my old RL450 manual and they have prices listed for carbide sizing dies for 9MM and 45ACP at $70!! While today's three die sets sell for $69.95.

buck460XVR · December 2, 2018, 09:57 AM

My Grandpa use to tell me, "Everybody is good at something, but nobody is good at everything!". Some folks just ain't cut out for reloading, and it may not have anything to do with it being their own fault. While reloading is not brain surgery or rocket science, it does take some mechanical ability and common sense. Focus and attention span is not always related to whether or not you have a cell phone or T.V. in the room. Sometimes it's the way your brain is wired. I have two sons. One I trust to reload and never have a concern about shooting his reloads in my guns, the other I won't let near the reloading room unless he's going to get ammo either I or his brother have reloaded. Need something built, plumbing fixed or machinery run, it's the other way around. Nuttin' against either of them, just the way they are. Some folks just ain't born to reload, but until they realize it themselves, they are a danger to them and others around them at the range. The reason we advise others not to shoot other folks reloads is because of them.

Just sayin'.

**Unclenick** · December 2, 2018, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

Semantics, I guess. To me, if it doesn't automatically advance the shell plate it's not a "progressive" press.

Not semantics, just a wrong definition. Progressive doesn't mean automatic. If it did, you couldn't call a press progressive if it didn't have automatic case and bullet and primer feeders and automatic powder dispensing, but past progressive designs have lacked all those features. "Progressive" just describes a loading operation in which cartridges are loaded by progressing through a series of loading stations rather than the dies being moved to one station for each operation. You could actually set up a series of single-stage presses in a row and have an operator at each one that does his operation and hands the cartridge to the person at the next press and so-on and that would still be a progressive loading process. It just wouldn't be a progressive loading machine, as the latter is expected to make all the stations work for just one operator.

AzShooter,

Oddly, if your friend has all his problems related to advancing the shell holder on his 550, he might do OK with a press that has a fifth station for a powder check die, like a Dillon 650 or a Hornady LNL. The powder check die will tell him if he either double-charged or failed to charge a case or, in the case of a lockout die, it will actually stop the press from operating. You could put one of those on the 550, but it will mean using a die that seats and crimps at the same time back on station 4, and he will have to insert his bullets there, which is inconvenient.

A stack of stuck bullets in a barrel suggests there was either a very reduced quantity of powder in every case or there was powder in all but the first round, with the subsequent loads jamming the multiple bullets into the bore. A primer doesn't normally have the strength to push four bullets forward at once, and I've seen sectioned revolver barrels at gun shows with up to six rounds in them, all fired with powder, but with the gas escaping out of the barrel/cylinder gap. In every instance, the barrel was bulged and not salvageable. You can apply calipers to the outside of the barrel at several places to see if that has happened in your friend's case. If so, a replacement barrel is needed.

JRR · December 2, 2018, 01:46 PM

Laser Cast Has a reloading manual for their bullets. Go to them direct or Amazon.

oley55 · December 2, 2018, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Buck460XVR

a most excellent post and spot on concerning brain wiring.

gwpercle · December 3, 2018, 01:48 PM

There is something to be said for loading on a single stage press .

Possibly this fellow should try it.

Gary

Chainsaw. · December 3, 2018, 11:18 PM

He needs a powder cop alarm for his press and a bushed drill bit for his barrel. And possibly a new hobby.

jstanfield103 · December 4, 2018, 04:53 AM

My first press was a Dillon 650. I did not enjoy reloading with it. The fact that there was too much going on for me made me feel un-easy. I sold it and all that went with it. Never had any problems with the ammo I loaded on it, but really did not enjoy everything going on at once.
I recently bought the RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme single stage. I believe I will enjoy reloading a lot more on it. I will enjoy the much slower pace. Sounds like that is exactly what you're friend needs to do. Get back to the RCBS. I use to weigh every round after the reloading process on the 650. If it was to heavy I would pull the round apart and redo it.

rclark · December 4, 2018, 02:20 PM

Quote:

On his Taurus he had 4 misloads with no powder and stuck all four in the barrel.

How...... do .... you ... do ... that. Just by the sound (the primer popping) and low recoil, you'd know instantly something is 'really' wrong. Time to check things out ... right? I usually don't make this type of suggestions... but really, I think your friend should take up basket weaving or some other benign hobby

.

pete2 · December 4, 2018, 06:17 PM

Some people have no business hand loading ammo. As for loads with no powder, the first thing to know is to look in each case to make sure it has powder before you seat the bullet. This for single stage or progressive loading. The 550 is a progressive press, it spits out a loaded round every time you pull the handle. It performs all 6 operations needed to load a round each pull of the lever. As a matter of fact the auto advance feature of the 650 ain't gonna be much faster than the 550 unless you have the case and bullet feeders on it. It takes all of a tenth of a second to advance it before you seat the bullet. Load a couple hundred rounds on a single stage(a turret press is still a single stage) and then load a couple hundred on the 550 and then tell me if it's a progressive.

KEYBEAR · December 4, 2018, 07:40 PM

At This time (winter) I love reloading more then shooting .

hounddawg · December 4, 2018, 07:55 PM

JohnKSa nailed it with the best answer so far. Not trying to be mean but some things are not for some people. Anyone can make a mistake but there seems to be a trend here and it's leaving a trail of destroyed guns. I hope he has good medical insurance if he continues

littlebikerider · December 5, 2018, 07:08 AM

I just started reloading earlier this year. I travel a lot, so I used hotel points traded for gift cards to buy my whole reloading setup. I went with the Hornady progressive, persuaded with "how easy it is to load bullets quickly" and "change calibers in minutes". And if I have it isn't coming out of my budget, why not get the top end stuff, right?

The first lesson I learned is that I think I would have been happier with a progressive press. It is much easier to pay attention to the process doing one function at a time. Trust me, I quickly learned to keep my eyes on everything, but I definitely feel I'm not really faster because i am keeping up with so much.
But it's working out.

I've also been very fortunate to have a mentor at the local range who has been testing my knowledge and checking my work, and providing a ton of great help.

So one of the final QC checks I do is to weigh my completed bullets. I will zero my scale on the first one and weigh all the others against it. Of course, there can be a grain or so difference between bullets loaded the same, but I mostly use it to double check against no powder or double charges. (I visually look while loading too). Does anyone else do a final weigh like this?

December 1, 2018, 02:19 PM	#1
AzShooter Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2006 Location: Surprise, Az. Posts: 766	Get out the lead bullets Well, my friend just started reloading on a progressive press and is having problems keeping his mind on what he is doing, not advancing the shell plate after sizing a round so he doesn't end up loading the previous case. It's a learning experience but shouldn't be if you pay attention to what you are doing, No disturbance in the loading room, no phone calls, no T.V. and just load. So far he's blown up one gun with a double charge. Had three that I know of but one did blew out the cylinder and the top strap of his Ruger. The best is left to last. On his Taurus he had 4 misloads with no powder and stuck all four in the barrel. The question is "How do you dislodge 4 bullets. I gave him my squib rod but told him I didn't think he could do it and to send it back to Taurus. He's as stubborn as me and I know he's not going to send it back. My only advice was to put it in a vice, hit the squib rod with a 3 pound sledge and pray. Any other suggestions?

December 1, 2018, 02:43 PM	#2
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,971	First piece of advice. Tell him he's not suited to reloading. He needs to get rid of his equipment and go back to factory ammo before he really hurts himself or someone else. If he got into reloading for savings, ask him how he's going to save money by blowing up and damaging guns and potentially having to pay to deal with injuries to himself or others. If he got into it for the fun of reloading, tell him to stop shooting the ammo and just have fun reloading. Second piece of advice. If he's going to shoot his reloads with others present, he needs to put up a big sign that has pictures of his blown/damaged guns, and a big notice saying: "Careless Novice Reloader. Keep Clear!" Advice for the Taurus. Replace the barrel. If he's going to keep reloading, saw the old barrel in half lengthwise. Hang one half over the reloading bench. Take the other one to the range and set it on the shooting bench where it's visible to him and others during the entire shooting session. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

December 2, 2018, 05:15 AM	#9
JT-AR-MG42 Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2008 Posts: 555	When I started loading on my MEC 9000 progressive (stepped up from a Lee hand loader), it came with a basic piece of advice that transferred over nicely to my 550b. Paraphrased, it said; 'If you start with a wad in your left hand and an empty hull in your right before you touch the handle, and have empty hands after having cycled the handle, you have correctly loaded a round.' I took the same principle over to my 550b. If I start with a bullet in my left hand and an empty in my right, I need to have empty hands after having operating the handle. Any deviation is checked out as to where I am in the sequence before operating the handle again. This method does not yield the 600/hour Dillon claim, but it works for me. There is enough of an inherent danger in both shooting and re-loading firearms to begin with, even for the conscientious shooter/re-loader. If this guy was my friend, I would attempt an intervention until I felt I had helped him to learn a proper routine. JT __________________ I hunt not to kill, but rather to have not played golf...

December 2, 2018, 07:25 AM	#10
USSR Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2017 Location: Finger Lakes Region of NY Posts: 1,442	Having taught reloading for the past 3 years, I also have come to the conclusion that some people just don't have the mindset for reloading and should not do so. Now you know why after a class, I break down all the ammo that students have loaded. Don __________________ NRA Life Member NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor

December 2, 2018, 07:35 AM	#11
5whiskey Senior Member Join Date: October 23, 2005 Location: US Posts: 3,652	See, I have a QC check for this. Before I seat a bullet, I must see the powder. Every single time, every single round. I too have had squib loads, 2 of them and maybe a third (can't remember exactly). They were years ago and I learned my lesson. A visual inspection of the powder should prevent squib rounds and double charges. __________________ Support the NRA-ILA Auction, ends 03/09/2018 https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=593946

December 1, 2018, 05:44 PM	#3
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,458	How do you not advance the shell plate on a progressive press? All the progressives I've seen automatically advance the shell plate each time you pull the handle. Is he maybe using a turret press that doesn't offer auto-indexing? I certainly agree that this is a person who should give up reloading, like yesterday.

December 1, 2018, 06:52 PM	#6
MisterAllen Junior Member Join Date: July 26, 2018 Posts: 12	When im loading the cell phone is not with me. Door is locked behind me. I tell everyone in the house im loading do not bother me. I had squibs in the past. Due to others around when im reloading. Lesson learned.

December 2, 2018, 01:56 AM	#7
reddog81 Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2014 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,634	What kind of Taurus? What was the Ruger? Maybe he should be limited to using Trail Boss powder or other powders that'll be overflowing if double charged.

December 2, 2018, 02:38 AM	#8
Geezerbiker Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2011 Location: Willamina, OR Posts: 1,908	When I first got started with my Dillon, I would sometimes forget to push the lever forward to seat a primer. This would leave flakes of powder here and there on the press and sometimes I'd get the impression of a flake of powder on a seated primer. It didn't take me long to get into the swing of things... Tony

December 2, 2018, 08:14 AM	#12
AzShooter Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2006 Location: Surprise, Az. Posts: 766	I've told him to put a light or a mirror over station 2 so he cold verify he has powder and then put the bullet on. I'm trying to talk him into going back to his one position RCBS. It would cost him a lot less in the long run. He's a great friend but stubborn as can be. I can't believe he shot 4 rounds without checking to see if they were hitting the target.

December 2, 2018, 09:57 AM	#14
buck460XVR Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2006 Posts: 4,342	My Grandpa use to tell me, "Everybody is good at something, but nobody is good at everything!". Some folks just ain't cut out for reloading, and it may not have anything to do with it being their own fault. While reloading is not brain surgery or rocket science, it does take some mechanical ability and common sense. Focus and attention span is not always related to whether or not you have a cell phone or T.V. in the room. Sometimes it's the way your brain is wired. I have two sons. One I trust to reload and never have a concern about shooting his reloads in my guns, the other I won't let near the reloading room unless he's going to get ammo either I or his brother have reloaded. Need something built, plumbing fixed or machinery run, it's the other way around. Nuttin' against either of them, just the way they are. Some folks just ain't born to reload, but until they realize it themselves, they are a danger to them and others around them at the range. The reason we advise others not to shoot other folks reloads is because of them. Just sayin'.

December 2, 2018, 01:46 PM	#16
JRR Member Join Date: January 5, 2001 Location: N. Calif. Posts: 53	Laser Cast Has a reloading manual for their bullets. Go to them direct or Amazon.

December 3, 2018, 01:48 PM	#18
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,752	There is something to be said for loading on a single stage press . Possibly this fellow should try it. Gary

December 3, 2018, 11:18 PM	#19
Chainsaw. Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Location: Issaquah WA. Its a dry rain. Posts: 1,774	He needs a powder cop alarm for his press and a bushed drill bit for his barrel. And possibly a new hobby. __________________ Just shoot the damn thing.

December 4, 2018, 04:53 AM	#20
jstanfield103 Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 114	My first press was a Dillon 650. I did not enjoy reloading with it. The fact that there was too much going on for me made me feel un-easy. I sold it and all that went with it. Never had any problems with the ammo I loaded on it, but really did not enjoy everything going on at once. I recently bought the RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme single stage. I believe I will enjoy reloading a lot more on it. I will enjoy the much slower pace. Sounds like that is exactly what you're friend needs to do. Get back to the RCBS. I use to weigh every round after the reloading process on the 650. If it was to heavy I would pull the round apart and redo it.

December 4, 2018, 06:17 PM	#22
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	Some people have no business hand loading ammo. As for loads with no powder, the first thing to know is to look in each case to make sure it has powder before you seat the bullet. This for single stage or progressive loading. The 550 is a progressive press, it spits out a loaded round every time you pull the handle. It performs all 6 operations needed to load a round each pull of the lever. As a matter of fact the auto advance feature of the 650 ain't gonna be much faster than the 550 unless you have the case and bullet feeders on it. It takes all of a tenth of a second to advance it before you seat the bullet. Load a couple hundred rounds on a single stage(a turret press is still a single stage) and then load a couple hundred on the 550 and then tell me if it's a progressive.

December 4, 2018, 07:40 PM	#23
KEYBEAR Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2012 Location: Indiana Posts: 1,059	At This time (winter) I love reloading more then shooting .

December 4, 2018, 07:55 PM	#24
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	JohnKSa nailed it with the best answer so far. Not trying to be mean but some things are not for some people. Anyone can make a mistake but there seems to be a trend here and it's leaving a trail of destroyed guns. I hope he has good medical insurance if he continues __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

December 5, 2018, 07:08 AM	#25
littlebikerider Senior Member Join Date: September 10, 2018 Posts: 131	I just started reloading earlier this year. I travel a lot, so I used hotel points traded for gift cards to buy my whole reloading setup. I went with the Hornady progressive, persuaded with "how easy it is to load bullets quickly" and "change calibers in minutes". And if I have it isn't coming out of my budget, why not get the top end stuff, right? The first lesson I learned is that I think I would have been happier with a progressive press. It is much easier to pay attention to the process doing one function at a time. Trust me, I quickly learned to keep my eyes on everything, but I definitely feel I'm not really faster because i am keeping up with so much. But it's working out. I've also been very fortunate to have a mentor at the local range who has been testing my knowledge and checking my work, and providing a ton of great help. So one of the final QC checks I do is to weigh my completed bullets. I will zero my scale on the first one and weigh all the others against it. Of course, there can be a grain or so difference between bullets loaded the same, but I mostly use it to double check against no powder or double charges. (I visually look while loading too). Does anyone else do a final weigh like this?

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