Civil war COLT, Medal of Honor, Signed document from Pres Lincoln awarding the medal.

Ozzieman · June 13, 2009, 10:54 AM

I need to research and hopefully find an expert on Civil War relics that can document a really nice collection.
I have not seen these yet so the information is sketchy. I am going up to his fathers home next weekend and will take pictures of the collection and try to find out more useful information.
I am not trying to buy this set since there is no way I can afford it nor is it for sale, but the problem is that they don’t have a clue as to its actual value which with a little research that I have done so far I am shocked at the possible value of the set,,, if its real.
The person that original owned the set is my friends grandfather and was a man of means (very wealthy) and very knowledgeable of firearms. This set contains the following items.

1. A very good condition Colt cap and ball revolver. (I am trying to find out what model and any other information on the gun.) I was told that the gun looks to be in exceptional condition and was never refinished. And was carried by the Civil war Medal of Honor winner during the war.

2. Medal of Honor won during the civil war.

3. The signed document from President Lincoln for the Medal of Honor with the serial number of the medal.
If any one knows of a professional expert on civil war relics that can research and perform an estimate of the value of the set for insurance purposes, please let me know.
Thank you for your help.

Chipperman · June 13, 2009, 11:18 AM

Sounds cool.

The Medal and Certificate are easy enough to confirm, but how can you prove that the pistol was owned and carried by him?

**4V50 Gary** · June 13, 2009, 11:44 AM

Post at the Company of Military Historians website. Composed of museum directors, curators, academians, writers, collectors, hobbyists and ordinary people like myself, they've got experts in all aspects of militaria.

Wildalaska · June 13, 2009, 12:11 PM

Here are your medal of Honour Citations

http://www.history.army.mil/moh.html

WildgoodluckAlaska TM

Ozzieman · June 13, 2009, 12:33 PM

Thank you ever one.
I don’t need locations for locating medal honor winners, that I already have. What I am look for is information like 4V50 Gary is showing (thank you Gary).
Also since I have not seen any of it yet I have no proof or information on the pieces.
My question was original asked so that I can give them locations and people to contact for research and value of the collection.
I had the owner’s approval to place this thread here and after next weekend if I have his ok I will also share photos of the collection.
Since I AM a cap and ball revolver NUT

I am extremely excited to see them.

**Mike Irwin** · June 13, 2009, 01:01 PM

Contact your state museum and/or historical commission.

Wildalaska · June 13, 2009, 01:12 PM

Quote:

I don’t need locations for locating medal honor winners, that I already have. What I am look for is information like 4V50 Gary is showing (thank you Gary).

Really? Well perhaps when you see the items your first step would be to click on the link I took the trouble to give you and see if the text of your citiation matches the ones listed there.

Works pretty good I got a fraud smoked out that way

WildbutheywhyamieventryingAlaska ™

Hawg · June 13, 2009, 02:09 PM

Contact Rafe Eledge at Shiloh Relics. He's a Civil War expert that does appraisals for Antiques Roadshow. If he can't help you he'll know somebody that can. He won't feed you a bunch of B.S. either. Whatever he tells you you can take to the bank.

Shiloh Civil War Relics
Rafael & Lori Eledge
230 Guinn Street
Savannah, Tennessee 38372
Email: [email protected]
Phone: 731-438-3541

surg_res · June 13, 2009, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Also since I have not seen any of it yet I have no proof or information on the pieces.

Sounds like a whole lot of work without much to gain. I wouldn't waste time doing someone else's homework, especially without goods-in-hand. Further, I wouldn't waste the time of any antiquities experts under such circumstances.

Thanks for the link Wild, I just spent 30 minutes reading about medal of honor recipients--quite fascinating. Alvin York's story is still my all time favorite.

Ozzieman · June 14, 2009, 07:56 PM

Sounds like a whole lot of work without much to gain.

Really? Well perhaps when you see the items your first step would be to click on the link I took the trouble to give you and see if the text of your citiation matches the ones listed there.

First off I am not looking for any kind of "gain" this is for a friend and research of this type I enjoy.
Since I had the name and date of the Medal of Honor winner I have already done a great deal of research. If he didn’t exist I wouldn’t be here asking for professionals.
I did not mean to offend any one and thank you for your help. I have already located his grave site on line and a great deal of information on the battle at Sailors creek. He won the medal for taking a confederate flag.
He is the great grand father of my friend’s mother.

Hawg Haggen Thank you, this is the kind of information I am looking for.

Buzzcook · June 14, 2009, 10:45 PM

One thing you should look out for is that your medal of honor winner might not be listed.

During the Civil War many medals were handed out for things almost as trivial as re-enlisting. Somewhere around the turn of the century there was a reassessment of those awards, many of them were withdrawn.

**4V50 Gary** · June 15, 2009, 08:15 AM

Some of the withdrawn medals were also re-conferred.

bigjack59 · June 15, 2009, 08:23 AM

Just be careful with a pre WW1 MOH, some were given out by subordinate commanders, some by congress, some by reenlistment boards. It is not the same medal that Alvin York and Audie Murphy were awarded in many cases. Good luck on the research though, regardless, it will be interesting.

Scorch · June 15, 2009, 11:48 AM

Sounds very nice.
Depending on condition, the Colt may be worth $3000 or more (significantly more!) because so few of them survived intact. The Lincoln signature just by itself can be worth a lot. As a set (award warrant, and the pistol with a letter from Colt, plus any other supporting documents that could be located), it would be worth a significant sum to a Civil War collector.

Just as an aside, it is a Federal crime to sell a CMH. Before trying to do so, you should consult an attorney.

RJay · June 15, 2009, 04:29 PM

Sailors Creek, Also know as Saylors Creek ( Correct name ). Coren D. Davis, Pvt. 3rd Indiana Cavalry, 1864 at one of the wars last batles, Jumped over a barricade while riding a mule ( horse's were getting scarce ) , landed in a group of Confederate color bearers, plucked { captured sounds a whole lot better } up a regimental flag from a very surprised color bearer, and then old Coron decided he need to be some where else. A so very human story of the trials and tribulations of the Civil war.

bigjack59 · June 15, 2009, 05:36 PM

OzzieMan can you take a picture or type in the commendation and the soldier's name. The US Army lists a MOH going to a John Davis at Sailor (or Saylor) Creek in April of 1865. First step would be squaring the MOH with the recognized Army sources. Wild ALaska posted a link to their site. The are meticulous with the data and if it corresponds it would greatly aid the case for authenticity.

bigjack59 · June 15, 2009, 05:37 PM

Crap, make that THOMAS Davis. Here is what the Army Center for Military HIstory has on the soldier:

DAVIS, THOMAS

Rank and organization: Private, Company C, 2d New York Heavy Artillery. Place and date: At Sailors Creek, Va., 6 April 1865. Entered service at: New York. Birth: Wales. Date of issue: 3 May 1865. Citation: Capture of flag.

Ozzieman · June 15, 2009, 07:21 PM

NORTON, JOHN R.

Rank and organization: Lieutenant, Company M, 1st New York (Lincoln) Cavalry. Place and date: At Sailors Creek, Va., 6 April 1865. Entered service at:------. Birth: Ontario County, N.Y. Date of issue: 3 May 1865. Citation: Capture of flag.
http://www.history.army.mil/html/moh/civwarmz.html

bigjack59 · June 15, 2009, 07:37 PM

WIsh you could post a scan of that, it would be most interesting.

mp25ds4 · June 15, 2009, 07:50 PM

that sounds like a great collection and a very amazing part of history. Id be very interested to know how he got the medal of honor?

RJay · June 15, 2009, 09:36 PM

Then there were a several Medal of Honors that was awarded for capturing a Confederate Flag. Coron Evans, Private, Company A, 3rd Indiana Cavalry at the Saylors ( or Sailors) Creek on 6 April 1865 also captured a flag. He captured the flag of the 26Th Virginia Cavalry. The part about the Mule is also correct, Grant had pushed his Army so hard that many of the horses had given out. The 3rd Cavalry requisitioned a number of local mules and old Coron was quite vocal in bragging about how his mule could out jump any horse. Too bad it wasn't Coron, he sounds like the type of G I that I would like to share a beer with. More colorful

Walter · June 15, 2009, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Ozzieman I need to research and hopefully find an expert on Civil War relics that can document a really nice collection.
I have not seen these yet so the information is sketchy. I am going up to his fathers home next weekend and will take pictures of the collection and try to find out more useful information.
I am not trying to buy this set since there is no way I can afford it nor is it for sale, but the problem is that they don’t have a clue as to its actual value which with a little research that I have done so far I am shocked at the possible value of the set,,, if its real.
The person that original owned the set is my friends grandfather and was a man of means (very wealthy) and very knowledgeable of firearms. This set contains the following items.

1. A very good condition Colt cap and ball revolver. (I am trying to find out what model and any other information on the gun.) I was told that the gun looks to be in exceptional condition and was never refinished. And was carried by the Civil war Medal of Honor winner during the war.

2. Medal of Honor won during the civil war.

3. The signed document from President Lincoln for the Medal of Honor with the serial number of the medal.
If any one knows of a professional expert on civil war relics that can research and perform an estimate of the value of the set for insurance purposes, please let me know.
Thank you for your help.

Yes. Pictures. Please.

Walter

Buzzcook · June 15, 2009, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Some of the withdrawn medals were also re-conferred.

Yes to Buffalo Bill Cody and to Dr. Mary Walker.

The Battle of Saylor's Creek was the last battle of the war before Appomattox Courthouse.

If you take pictures, don't use a flash on the documents.

Ozzieman · June 16, 2009, 05:45 PM

Being a bit of a photo expert I know about flash and old documents.

I am going up Friday on a fishing trip this weekend and will be taking photos of the set.
Hope to show them next week.
Again I want to thank every one for the help.

Ozzieman · June 18, 2009, 06:00 PM

I apologize to every one, Friday’s fishing trip is off.
Due to health issues my friend can’t go up this weekend. We are still planning on the following weekend so I will have photos then.

June 13, 2009, 10:54 AM	#1
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	Civil war COLT, Medal of Honor, Signed document from Pres Lincoln awarding the medal. I need to research and hopefully find an expert on Civil War relics that can document a really nice collection. I have not seen these yet so the information is sketchy. I am going up to his fathers home next weekend and will take pictures of the collection and try to find out more useful information. I am not trying to buy this set since there is no way I can afford it nor is it for sale, but the problem is that they don’t have a clue as to its actual value which with a little research that I have done so far I am shocked at the possible value of the set,,, if its real. The person that original owned the set is my friends grandfather and was a man of means (very wealthy) and very knowledgeable of firearms. This set contains the following items. 1. A very good condition Colt cap and ball revolver. (I am trying to find out what model and any other information on the gun.) I was told that the gun looks to be in exceptional condition and was never refinished. And was carried by the Civil war Medal of Honor winner during the war. 2. Medal of Honor won during the civil war. 3. The signed document from President Lincoln for the Medal of Honor with the serial number of the medal. If any one knows of a professional expert on civil war relics that can research and perform an estimate of the value of the set for insurance purposes, please let me know. Thank you for your help.

June 13, 2009, 11:44 AM	#3
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,829	Post at the Company of Military Historians website. Composed of museum directors, curators, academians, writers, collectors, hobbyists and ordinary people like myself, they've got experts in all aspects of militaria. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

June 13, 2009, 01:01 PM	#6
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,379	Contact your state museum and/or historical commission. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

June 15, 2009, 08:15 AM	#12
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,829	Some of the withdrawn medals were also re-conferred. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

June 15, 2009, 08:23 AM	#13
bigjack59 Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2008 Location: greenville sc Posts: 221	Just be careful with a pre WW1 MOH, some were given out by subordinate commanders, some by congress, some by reenlistment boards. It is not the same medal that Alvin York and Audie Murphy were awarded in many cases. Good luck on the research though, regardless, it will be interesting. __________________ ALWAYS BRING ENOUGH GUN

June 13, 2009, 11:18 AM	#2
Chipperman Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2000 Location: Live Free or Die, Baby! Posts: 1,550	Sounds cool. The Medal and Certificate are easy enough to confirm, but how can you prove that the pistol was owned and carried by him?

June 13, 2009, 12:11 PM	#4
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	Here are your medal of Honour Citations http://www.history.army.mil/moh.html WildgoodluckAlaska TM

June 13, 2009, 12:33 PM	#5
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	Thank you ever one. I don’t need locations for locating medal honor winners, that I already have. What I am look for is information like 4V50 Gary is showing (thank you Gary). Also since I have not seen any of it yet I have no proof or information on the pieces. My question was original asked so that I can give them locations and people to contact for research and value of the collection. I had the owner’s approval to place this thread here and after next weekend if I have his ok I will also share photos of the collection. Since I AM a cap and ball revolver NUT I am extremely excited to see them.

June 13, 2009, 02:09 PM	#8
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Contact Rafe Eledge at Shiloh Relics. He's a Civil War expert that does appraisals for Antiques Roadshow. If he can't help you he'll know somebody that can. He won't feed you a bunch of B.S. either. Whatever he tells you you can take to the bank. Shiloh Civil War Relics Rafael & Lori Eledge 230 Guinn Street Savannah, Tennessee 38372 Email: [email protected] Phone: 731-438-3541

June 14, 2009, 07:56 PM	#10
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	Sounds like a whole lot of work without much to gain. Really? Well perhaps when you see the items your first step would be to click on the link I took the trouble to give you and see if the text of your citiation matches the ones listed there. First off I am not looking for any kind of "gain" this is for a friend and research of this type I enjoy. Since I had the name and date of the Medal of Honor winner I have already done a great deal of research. If he didn’t exist I wouldn’t be here asking for professionals. I did not mean to offend any one and thank you for your help. I have already located his grave site on line and a great deal of information on the battle at Sailors creek. He won the medal for taking a confederate flag. He is the great grand father of my friend’s mother. Hawg Haggen Thank you, this is the kind of information I am looking for.

June 14, 2009, 10:45 PM	#11
Buzzcook Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2007 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 6,126	One thing you should look out for is that your medal of honor winner might not be listed. During the Civil War many medals were handed out for things almost as trivial as re-enlisting. Somewhere around the turn of the century there was a reassessment of those awards, many of them were withdrawn.

June 15, 2009, 11:48 AM	#14
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Sounds very nice. Depending on condition, the Colt may be worth $3000 or more (significantly more!) because so few of them survived intact. The Lincoln signature just by itself can be worth a lot. As a set (award warrant, and the pistol with a letter from Colt, plus any other supporting documents that could be located), it would be worth a significant sum to a Civil War collector. Just as an aside, it is a Federal crime to sell a CMH. Before trying to do so, you should consult an attorney. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services Last edited by Scorch; June 15, 2009 at 11:58 AM.

June 15, 2009, 04:29 PM	#15
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	Sailors Creek, Also know as Saylors Creek ( Correct name ). Coren D. Davis, Pvt. 3rd Indiana Cavalry, 1864 at one of the wars last batles, Jumped over a barricade while riding a mule ( horse's were getting scarce ) , landed in a group of Confederate color bearers, plucked { captured sounds a whole lot better } up a regimental flag from a very surprised color bearer, and then old Coron decided he need to be some where else. A so very human story of the trials and tribulations of the Civil war.

June 15, 2009, 05:36 PM	#16
bigjack59 Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2008 Location: greenville sc Posts: 221	OzzieMan can you take a picture or type in the commendation and the soldier's name. The US Army lists a MOH going to a John Davis at Sailor (or Saylor) Creek in April of 1865. First step would be squaring the MOH with the recognized Army sources. Wild ALaska posted a link to their site. The are meticulous with the data and if it corresponds it would greatly aid the case for authenticity. __________________ ALWAYS BRING ENOUGH GUN

June 15, 2009, 05:37 PM	#17
bigjack59 Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2008 Location: greenville sc Posts: 221	Crap, make that THOMAS Davis. Here is what the Army Center for Military HIstory has on the soldier: DAVIS, THOMAS Rank and organization: Private, Company C, 2d New York Heavy Artillery. Place and date: At Sailors Creek, Va., 6 April 1865. Entered service at: New York. Birth: Wales. Date of issue: 3 May 1865. Citation: Capture of flag. __________________ ALWAYS BRING ENOUGH GUN

June 15, 2009, 07:21 PM	#18
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	NORTON, JOHN R. Rank and organization: Lieutenant, Company M, 1st New York (Lincoln) Cavalry. Place and date: At Sailors Creek, Va., 6 April 1865. Entered service at:------. Birth: Ontario County, N.Y. Date of issue: 3 May 1865. Citation: Capture of flag. http://www.history.army.mil/html/moh/civwarmz.html

June 15, 2009, 07:37 PM	#19
bigjack59 Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2008 Location: greenville sc Posts: 221	WIsh you could post a scan of that, it would be most interesting. __________________ ALWAYS BRING ENOUGH GUN

June 15, 2009, 07:50 PM	#20
mp25ds4 Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2009 Posts: 392	that sounds like a great collection and a very amazing part of history. Id be very interested to know how he got the medal of honor? __________________ Liberal Newscaster Katie Couric, while interviewing a Marine sniper, asked: 'What do you feel.....when you shoot a Terrorist?' The Marine shrugged and replied, "A Slight Recoil."

June 15, 2009, 09:36 PM	#21
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	Then there were a several Medal of Honors that was awarded for capturing a Confederate Flag. Coron Evans, Private, Company A, 3rd Indiana Cavalry at the Saylors ( or Sailors) Creek on 6 April 1865 also captured a flag. He captured the flag of the 26Th Virginia Cavalry. The part about the Mule is also correct, Grant had pushed his Army so hard that many of the horses had given out. The 3rd Cavalry requisitioned a number of local mules and old Coron was quite vocal in bragging about how his mule could out jump any horse. Too bad it wasn't Coron, he sounds like the type of G I that I would like to share a beer with. More colorful Last edited by RJay; June 16, 2009 at 05:14 PM.

June 16, 2009, 05:45 PM	#24
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	Being a bit of a photo expert I know about flash and old documents. I am going up Friday on a fishing trip this weekend and will be taking photos of the set. Hope to show them next week. Again I want to thank every one for the help.

June 18, 2009, 06:00 PM	#25
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	I apologize to every one, Friday’s fishing trip is off. Due to health issues my friend can’t go up this weekend. We are still planning on the following weekend so I will have photos then.

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