Which 7mm bullet for close range deer in Short Action Mag

300magman · June 29, 2011, 08:06 AM

I’m in a dilemma as to which bullet to use on deer for close range shots from the muzzle out to 400 yards.

I am planning to have a rifle chambered in 7mm SAUM and, although they might be controversial, I am thinking of giving the 162 A-max a try on deer out past 400 yards. After that distance they are traveling under 2500fps and shouldn’t come apart too quickly.

But my question was actually about short distance shots, I want a bullet that will kill quickly but without leaving a bloodshot mess behind. I was thinking about the 140 or 160gr Accubonds, or the 154gr Hornady Interbond, all should be tough enough not to blow apart.

So, will the fast, light recoiling 140gr AB still cause massive shock damage purely from speed? And will the tough 154 Interbond expand and leave enough energy in the deer to be quickly fatal (lets say 175lb whitetail), or is the 160gr AB the most practical choice to save some meat for the table?

Art Eatman · June 29, 2011, 08:40 AM

If you don't shoot a deer in the eating part, you don't have to worry all that much about whatever mess happens. After all, an 85-grain HPBT from a .243 turns a deer's heart and lungs into a double-handful of mush. No big deal.

Just from pure snoopy curiosity, have you done enough shooting at ranges over 400 yards to have confidence in your ability to dope the wind? During my learning-curve daze I was startled at how much drift came from what I had regarded as a gentle breeze.

A fair number of bullet-makers claim that their bullets work well up close at high speeds. I can tell you to not use the Sierra boat tails, from experience. Flat base, more "okay". Odds are, IMO, that the 140-grain Accubond would do quite well.

KenL · June 29, 2011, 08:46 AM

For short shots I would be concerned with over-expansion, especially from a magnum. When using a 308 on short shots (I've taken 95% of my deer at under 50 yards and 8 times at around 10 yards) I have actually had the bullet "blow up" and not go thru-and-thru, making the tracking much more difficult. I switched to a Nosler Partition and the problem went away. I will be hard pressed to ever use something other than a Partition except for practice.

MOshooter65202 · June 29, 2011, 08:46 AM

I really like the performance from the Nosler Partition 160 grain bullet I shoot in my 7mm rem mag. pushing nearly 3100 fps,works great from close up and out to 500 yards for me.I have also shot a lot of Hornady SP 154 grain with good results.

ZeroJunk · June 29, 2011, 08:49 AM

I've been told a 10 MPH breeze will move a bullet just as much as gravity.

Hunting in the mountains and plains 30 MPH is pretty common.

I had hunting partner shoot at a bull elk across a river bottom from one mountain side to the other. It was 410 yards on a range finder. You really couldn't tell how bad the wind was blowing from the trees we were in. But, once you got in the open the wind was rough coming down the valley. There was no way to get closer. It was a shot that should have been passed because there was really no way to figure the wind other than guess.

160 grain Nosler Partitions is what I use . They are time tested.

AllenJ · June 29, 2011, 08:58 AM

It has been my experience that blood shot meat comes as much from velocity as from bullet construction. If you want to limit that you may want to look at heavier bullet weights. They'll slow your velocity enough to help limit blood shot and still give you plenty of power at 400 yards.

Brian Pfleuger · June 29, 2011, 09:03 AM

Barnes TTSX will hold together at any speed.

scoutman · June 29, 2011, 09:44 AM

Noted Whitetail biologist James C. Kroll states that a bullet weighing between 140 and 180 grains driven at a velocity around 3,000 fps is optimum.

I believe he uses the 140 grain in a 7mm magnum.

300magman · June 29, 2011, 01:17 PM

Wind can be a tricky thing, some people don't believe how much bullets move, others are surprised by how little.
A quick reference I sometimes use just to see a result in a hurry is
http://www.biggameinfo.com/BalCalc.aspx

I see the nosler partition was mentioned a few times, I did consider that bullet for a time myself, but as far as I can tell the accubond seems as though it is designed for the same purpose but with 40? years more technology behind it....not a big difference, but if it does what it claims than it should equal the results of the partition and have better ballistics, at a cheaper price no less.

lefteye · June 29, 2011, 03:36 PM

FWIW - My experience with Nosler Partitions has been perfect. Some years ago I used 180 gr. Partition Protected Points in my .300 Win Mag A-Bolt Stainless Stalker in the Bob Marshall Wilderness on an outfitted hunt about 26 miles from the nearest road. The bullet took a 5 X 5 bull elk at 15-20 yards and a black bear at over 400 yards - both animals with one shot and both ran about 25 yards after the shot. This is not to say there are no equal or superior bullets for some applications, but this is one of the few issues upon which I have followed that old advice: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Saltydog235 · June 29, 2011, 03:53 PM

I shoot a 7mm08 with most of my shots being in the 70 to 150 yard range. I load a 150grn Nosler Ballistic Tip over 45.5 grains of H4350. The results have been devastating. I shot one in the back of the shoulder, blew his heart up, put a softball sized exit out of his brisket and still had the energy to blow his lower jaw off. The last one I shot was a total cranial evacuation on the left hand side with a 7mm hole in his right eye.

Get R Done Guns · June 29, 2011, 09:52 PM

probably barnes or noslers are going to work. Barnes are not known for their stellar accuracy, but their expansion is usually in the top.

Gunplummer · June 30, 2011, 08:51 AM

I had bad experiences with Hornady bullets not opening up at close range with my .257 R and my buddy did too. I had to put one in the shoulder to stop the deer. Out over 100 yards they seem O.K.

Brian Pfleuger · June 30, 2011, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunplummer

I had bad experiences with Hornady bullets not opening up at close range with my .257 R and my buddy did too. I had to put one in the shoulder to stop the deer. Out over 100 yards they seem O.K.

That's a very interesting experience... Seems to almost defy the laws of physics.... A bullet that holds together at high energy but mushrooms at low energy....

I'm not saying it ain't so, but I don't understand how it could be.

Scorch · June 30, 2011, 01:21 PM

Quote:

I am planning to have a rifle chambered in 7mm SAUM and, although they might be controversial, I am thinking of giving the 162 A-max a try on deer out past 400 yards.

Personally, the part of that I find controversial is the choice of bullets. Since you state you want to use the A-Max I assume you want to use Hornacy bullets, maybe not. If you want a heavy/high BC bullet for game, I would use the SST bullet, it has a good BC and flies almost like the A-Max (not quite the same BC, but better construction for game). If you are stuck on Hornady bullets, I would actually recommend the 154 gr Interbond, it has good weight retention across a wide velocity range, and good BC.

I actually prefer old technology, so I hunt almost exclusively with Nosler Partitions. Terminal performance cannot be faulted, but BC is pretty average. If I were planning on hunting 400 yds+ and wanted a high BC bullet, I would use the Swift Scirocco bullets.

Gunplummer · July 1, 2011, 11:06 AM

About 30-40 yards, big doe walking. Shot through lung area, deer started to take off, shot again, deer picked up speed. Third shot shoulder bone went down. Two bullet holes through lung area, looked like I shot a target point arrow through. .257 Roberts +P loads, they were moving. Buddy basicly had same thing happen with his .257R, but they seem to open up in soft areas O.K. @ 100 yards plus. A guy at the range told me he had that problem with Hornady in his .243, but I did not know him so that is up in the air. Try some experiments with hunting bullets on different substances. The out come might surprise you.

Brian Pfleuger · July 1, 2011, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunplummer

About 30-40 yards, big doe walking. Shot through lung area, deer started to take off, shot again, deer picked up speed. Third shot shoulder bone went down. Two bullet holes through lung area, looked like I shot a target point arrow through. .257 Roberts +P loads, they were moving. Buddy basicly had same thing happen with his .257R, but they seem to open up in soft areas O.K. @ 100 yards plus. A guy at the range told me he had that problem with Hornady in his .243, but I did not know him so that is up in the air. Try some experiments with hunting bullets on different substances. The out come might surprise you.

Like I said, I'm not saying it didn't happen I'm just saying the conclusions are based on a very small sample. In other words, it's a fluke.

I have seen .204 bullets with a muzzle velocity of 4,000+ fps blow a woodchuck in half at 185 yards and leave no trace of an impact at 40 yards.

I have seen identical deer slugs, Winchester Super-X, blow a deers opposite leg almost completely off in one instance but leave a tiny hole through the shoulder in another.

What you're saying is akin to saying that if you hit a nail softly it will go into the wood but if you hit it hard it won't.

If Hornady advertised that they made a bullet that would not expand with impact energies of 3,000 ft/lbs but would expand at 2,000, would we believe them? I wouldn't.

Hog Hunter · July 1, 2011, 02:30 PM

I have shot the160gr accubonds out of my 7mag for about 4 or 5 years now. Never had a problem with them takin down animals. My longest shot with it has been 330 on a 275lb boar hog. Hog droped in it tracks. I hit him a little forward in the shoulder and found the ball bulging out of his skin on the other side fully mushroomed and about 80% of it still intact. Through both shoulders blades at 330 yards and it pretty much had 100% penetration. Im impressed!!

Also took a 130 inch last 9 point year with the 160 accubond at about 25 yards.(wish ida had my bow) Quarteing towards me, the ball hit in the front of his right shoulder and exited about middle ribcage. He stubled maybe 20 yards befor he died.

The accubond proved to me on the range that its the bullet I want to take to the field for he longer pokes and in the field it proved to do everything I expected it to at all ranges. I think remington lost the deadliest mushroom in the woods when Nosler introduced the accubond!!

hooligan1 · July 1, 2011, 02:34 PM

Ditto on the Partition bullet, it's the "gold standard" of bullets that go through.. I am currently working on a loading using the 150grn Partition and IMR4350 for punishing anything I need it to from 10-350 yds..

all this for my 7mm rem mag.

Gunplummer · July 1, 2011, 08:08 PM

Speaking in those terms it would be if you hit a nail softly it will bend, if you hit it hard it will go through. Take about 2 foot of news papers and tie them tightly. Then stand them up on the edge of the papers. Fire a rifle into the bundle from about 10" away using soft point ammo. Some of those bullets will go in 10" and barely blunt the front of the bullet. I used to test fire rifles in a vise like that and got those type of results all the time. On the other hand, the same bullets will work fine on a deer's soft areas. The bullet companies spent years and millions figuring these things out and they know how to make a bullet. Sometimes. The other year I was swinging on a doe running past me at about 40 yards and missed. I felt so good when I fired I just could not believe it. I looked and looked for blood. Finally I saw a fresh bullet hole through a green maple tree about 8" thick. Through it. A 6.5 Carcano 160 grain RN. The hole was chewed up coming out, but a soft point going that far? Bullets do strange things in different media.
Caution: Only fire into the bundle once or twice. Multiple shots will act like a woodpecker and put a through hole in the bundle.

GeauxTide · July 1, 2011, 09:13 PM

I'm with the others on using bullets designed for hunting. My own experience using standard bullets of 150gr or less in 7 Mags are very explosive. I now use either 150 Partitions or 154 Interbonds. Penetration from any angle with golf ball sized exits.

300magman · July 2, 2011, 09:06 AM

How have you found the Interbonds to be on broadside shots, are they leaving much energy in the deer and expanding?

And I'm curious about total penetration, if I have to shoot a deer front on, should I expect the bullet to exit out his hind quarters? (that's too much penetration for me, hence why I am considering the 140gr AB over the 160)

JerryM · July 2, 2011, 12:25 PM

It is obvious that at close range over expansion is the problem. If you do not want to load to a lesser velocity then use a tough bullet.
The Barnes X would be my choice.

I agree that velocity causes a lot of bloodshot meat.

Regards,
Jerry

T. O'Heir · July 2, 2011, 12:34 PM

400 yards isn't close range. Too far for most hunting situations unless you know exactly how much the bullet drops at extreme ranges. Remington factory ammo drops like a brick past 300. When sighted in at 200, all Remington bullet weights drop 20ish inches at 400.
An A-Max isn't a hunting bullet, but a 165 grain hunting bullet should do nicely.

June 29, 2011, 08:06 AM	#1
300magman Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2008 Posts: 714	Which 7mm bullet for close range deer in Short Action Mag I’m in a dilemma as to which bullet to use on deer for close range shots from the muzzle out to 400 yards. I am planning to have a rifle chambered in 7mm SAUM and, although they might be controversial, I am thinking of giving the 162 A-max a try on deer out past 400 yards. After that distance they are traveling under 2500fps and shouldn’t come apart too quickly. But my question was actually about short distance shots, I want a bullet that will kill quickly but without leaving a bloodshot mess behind. I was thinking about the 140 or 160gr Accubonds, or the 154gr Hornady Interbond, all should be tough enough not to blow apart. So, will the fast, light recoiling 140gr AB still cause massive shock damage purely from speed? And will the tough 154 Interbond expand and leave enough energy in the deer to be quickly fatal (lets say 175lb whitetail), or is the 160gr AB the most practical choice to save some meat for the table?

June 29, 2011, 09:44 AM	#8
scoutman Member Join Date: September 20, 2010 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 56	Noted Whitetail biologist James C. Kroll states that a bullet weighing between 140 and 180 grains driven at a velocity around 3,000 fps is optimum. I believe he uses the 140 grain in a 7mm magnum. __________________ If you can get closer, get closer; if you can get steadier, get steadier.-Jeff Cooper

June 29, 2011, 03:36 PM	#10
lefteye Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2006 Posts: 1,433	FWIW - My experience with Nosler Partitions has been perfect. Some years ago I used 180 gr. Partition Protected Points in my .300 Win Mag A-Bolt Stainless Stalker in the Bob Marshall Wilderness on an outfitted hunt about 26 miles from the nearest road. The bullet took a 5 X 5 bull elk at 15-20 yards and a black bear at over 400 yards - both animals with one shot and both ran about 25 yards after the shot. This is not to say there are no equal or superior bullets for some applications, but this is one of the few issues upon which I have followed that old advice: "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." __________________ Vietnam Veteran ('69-'70) NRA Life Member RMEF Life Member

June 29, 2011, 09:52 PM	#12
Get R Done Guns Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2011 Location: Pleasant View Utah Posts: 272	probably barnes or noslers are going to work. Barnes are not known for their stellar accuracy, but their expansion is usually in the top. __________________ Please visit us at www.getgunsonline.com for some of the best delivered pricing on the net. 31,000 items and $4.99 ships your entire order!! No credit card fees! Gun+ammo=$4.99 Ammo+accessories=$4.99 WE MEAN EVERYTHING ON YOUR ORDER!!

July 1, 2011, 11:06 AM	#16
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	Peetzakilla About 30-40 yards, big doe walking. Shot through lung area, deer started to take off, shot again, deer picked up speed. Third shot shoulder bone went down. Two bullet holes through lung area, looked like I shot a target point arrow through. .257 Roberts +P loads, they were moving. Buddy basicly had same thing happen with his .257R, but they seem to open up in soft areas O.K. @ 100 yards plus. A guy at the range told me he had that problem with Hornady in his .243, but I did not know him so that is up in the air. Try some experiments with hunting bullets on different substances. The out come might surprise you.

June 29, 2011, 08:40 AM	#2
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	If you don't shoot a deer in the eating part, you don't have to worry all that much about whatever mess happens. After all, an 85-grain HPBT from a .243 turns a deer's heart and lungs into a double-handful of mush. No big deal. Just from pure snoopy curiosity, have you done enough shooting at ranges over 400 yards to have confidence in your ability to dope the wind? During my learning-curve daze I was startled at how much drift came from what I had regarded as a gentle breeze. A fair number of bullet-makers claim that their bullets work well up close at high speeds. I can tell you to not use the Sierra boat tails, from experience. Flat base, more "okay". Odds are, IMO, that the 140-grain Accubond would do quite well.

June 29, 2011, 08:46 AM	#3
KenL Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2011 Location: Colorado Posts: 218	For short shots I would be concerned with over-expansion, especially from a magnum. When using a 308 on short shots (I've taken 95% of my deer at under 50 yards and 8 times at around 10 yards) I have actually had the bullet "blow up" and not go thru-and-thru, making the tracking much more difficult. I switched to a Nosler Partition and the problem went away. I will be hard pressed to ever use something other than a Partition except for practice.

June 29, 2011, 08:46 AM	#4
MOshooter65202 Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2011 Posts: 471	I really like the performance from the Nosler Partition 160 grain bullet I shoot in my 7mm rem mag. pushing nearly 3100 fps,works great from close up and out to 500 yards for me.I have also shot a lot of Hornady SP 154 grain with good results.

June 29, 2011, 08:49 AM	#5
ZeroJunk Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2006 Location: Browns Summit NC Posts: 2,589	I've been told a 10 MPH breeze will move a bullet just as much as gravity. Hunting in the mountains and plains 30 MPH is pretty common. I had hunting partner shoot at a bull elk across a river bottom from one mountain side to the other. It was 410 yards on a range finder. You really couldn't tell how bad the wind was blowing from the trees we were in. But, once you got in the open the wind was rough coming down the valley. There was no way to get closer. It was a shot that should have been passed because there was really no way to figure the wind other than guess. 160 grain Nosler Partitions is what I use . They are time tested.

June 29, 2011, 08:58 AM	#6
AllenJ Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2009 Location: Northern California Posts: 1,766	It has been my experience that blood shot meat comes as much from velocity as from bullet construction. If you want to limit that you may want to look at heavier bullet weights. They'll slow your velocity enough to help limit blood shot and still give you plenty of power at 400 yards.

June 29, 2011, 09:03 AM	#7
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Barnes TTSX will hold together at any speed.

June 29, 2011, 01:17 PM	#9
300magman Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2008 Posts: 714	Wind can be a tricky thing, some people don't believe how much bullets move, others are surprised by how little. A quick reference I sometimes use just to see a result in a hurry is http://www.biggameinfo.com/BalCalc.aspx I see the nosler partition was mentioned a few times, I did consider that bullet for a time myself, but as far as I can tell the accubond seems as though it is designed for the same purpose but with 40? years more technology behind it....not a big difference, but if it does what it claims than it should equal the results of the partition and have better ballistics, at a cheaper price no less.

June 29, 2011, 03:53 PM	#11
Saltydog235 Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2010 Location: Pawleys Island Posts: 1,563	I shoot a 7mm08 with most of my shots being in the 70 to 150 yard range. I load a 150grn Nosler Ballistic Tip over 45.5 grains of H4350. The results have been devastating. I shot one in the back of the shoulder, blew his heart up, put a softball sized exit out of his brisket and still had the energy to blow his lower jaw off. The last one I shot was a total cranial evacuation on the left hand side with a 7mm hole in his right eye.

June 30, 2011, 08:51 AM	#13
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	I had bad experiences with Hornady bullets not opening up at close range with my .257 R and my buddy did too. I had to put one in the shoulder to stop the deer. Out over 100 yards they seem O.K.

July 1, 2011, 02:30 PM	#18
Hog Hunter Senior Member Join Date: August 14, 2009 Location: Georgia Posts: 386	I have shot the160gr accubonds out of my 7mag for about 4 or 5 years now. Never had a problem with them takin down animals. My longest shot with it has been 330 on a 275lb boar hog. Hog droped in it tracks. I hit him a little forward in the shoulder and found the ball bulging out of his skin on the other side fully mushroomed and about 80% of it still intact. Through both shoulders blades at 330 yards and it pretty much had 100% penetration. Im impressed!! Also took a 130 inch last 9 point year with the 160 accubond at about 25 yards.(wish ida had my bow) Quarteing towards me, the ball hit in the front of his right shoulder and exited about middle ribcage. He stubled maybe 20 yards befor he died. The accubond proved to me on the range that its the bullet I want to take to the field for he longer pokes and in the field it proved to do everything I expected it to at all ranges. I think remington lost the deadliest mushroom in the woods when Nosler introduced the accubond!!

July 1, 2011, 02:34 PM	#19
hooligan1 Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2010 Location: Independence Missouri Posts: 4,585	Ditto on the Partition bullet, it's the "gold standard" of bullets that go through.. I am currently working on a loading using the 150grn Partition and IMR4350 for punishing anything I need it to from 10-350 yds.. all this for my 7mm rem mag. __________________ Keep your Axe sharp and your powder dry. Last edited by hooligan1; July 1, 2011 at 02:37 PM. Reason: added info

July 1, 2011, 08:08 PM	#20
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	Peetzakilla Speaking in those terms it would be if you hit a nail softly it will bend, if you hit it hard it will go through. Take about 2 foot of news papers and tie them tightly. Then stand them up on the edge of the papers. Fire a rifle into the bundle from about 10" away using soft point ammo. Some of those bullets will go in 10" and barely blunt the front of the bullet. I used to test fire rifles in a vise like that and got those type of results all the time. On the other hand, the same bullets will work fine on a deer's soft areas. The bullet companies spent years and millions figuring these things out and they know how to make a bullet. Sometimes. The other year I was swinging on a doe running past me at about 40 yards and missed. I felt so good when I fired I just could not believe it. I looked and looked for blood. Finally I saw a fresh bullet hole through a green maple tree about 8" thick. Through it. A 6.5 Carcano 160 grain RN. The hole was chewed up coming out, but a soft point going that far? Bullets do strange things in different media. Caution: Only fire into the bundle once or twice. Multiple shots will act like a woodpecker and put a through hole in the bundle.

July 1, 2011, 09:13 PM	#21
GeauxTide Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Helena, AL Posts: 4,423	I'm with the others on using bullets designed for hunting. My own experience using standard bullets of 150gr or less in 7 Mags are very explosive. I now use either 150 Partitions or 154 Interbonds. Penetration from any angle with golf ball sized exits.

July 2, 2011, 09:06 AM	#22
300magman Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2008 Posts: 714	How have you found the Interbonds to be on broadside shots, are they leaving much energy in the deer and expanding? And I'm curious about total penetration, if I have to shoot a deer front on, should I expect the bullet to exit out his hind quarters? (that's too much penetration for me, hence why I am considering the 140gr AB over the 160)

July 2, 2011, 12:25 PM	#23
JerryM Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 1999 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,889	It is obvious that at close range over expansion is the problem. If you do not want to load to a lesser velocity then use a tough bullet. The Barnes X would be my choice. I agree that velocity causes a lot of bloodshot meat. Regards, Jerry __________________ Ecclesiastes 12:13 ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

July 2, 2011, 12:34 PM	#24
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	400 yards isn't close range. Too far for most hunting situations unless you know exactly how much the bullet drops at extreme ranges. Remington factory ammo drops like a brick past 300. When sighted in at 200, all Remington bullet weights drop 20ish inches at 400. An A-Max isn't a hunting bullet, but a 165 grain hunting bullet should do nicely. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!